Upgrading your rig? Think twice.

Just some general advice - In light of recent developments, it may be best to just wait. Even today's top-of-the-line rigs are only going to be a mid-range system in 12 months.

Wait until the end of next year if your system will generally support ED well enough. In 2014 we're going to see the release of DDR4 RAM, the first Intel 8-core CPU (Haswell-E) a new motherboard chipset (X-99) and next-gen video cards from both AMD and Nvidia that will eat todays cards for breakfast.

It is currently the worst time to start building a rig, with all these changes coming up.

If I thought like this I'd still be running a ZX Spectrum. ;)

The best that any of us can do is to buy (or preferably build) the best machine we can afford at the time & choose features that give us at least a little future proofing, such as using a current generation CPU & a mainboard that has features we need now & may need in the future. GFX card, memory, PSU etc are easily upgraded when necessary.
My son's 4 year old 1st gen Core i5 machine was not vastly expensive at the time & has only very recently required a GFX card upgrade to allow playing modern games at ultra settings because we put a deal of thought into the spec before building it.

There is no right time to build a rig, but with a little thought you can avoid the wrong time.
 
Reading all this I wonder why developers don't take advantage of the quad cores available on the market now. I always read people saying that most games do not support it.

Who is going to program for 8 cores when they aren't even coding for 4? And so it seems that before supporting the OR or multiple monitors or anything like that, you code for using the whole CPU. I suppose if you do use this option, a game can be a lot more than it can be if you pipe everything through one core and maybe run some trivial stuff through another.
 
I intend to build a rig for E : D.

I think the majority of people like me wont actually be in a position to consider a build with top of the range components - so the only real effect on me of this release is a price drop of exisitng gear and perhaps if I waited I could get say a step improvement in graphics card.

To say there is a fundamental problem with upgrading just now compared to any other time in history seems a little extreme - I plan to wait as long as I can until private beta 2 is in the barrel and I'll see what I can get...
 
Dark Reign

Specification:
CPU:
Intel Core i5 4570
CPU Cooling:
Standard Intel Cooler
Operating System:
Windows 8.1 (64-bit)
Motherboard:
Gigabyte Z87-HD3
Memory:
Corsair 8GB 1600mhz Vengeance
Hard Drives:
Plextor 128GB M5S SSD
1TB S-ATAIII 6.0Gb/s
Optical Drive:
DVDRW
Graphics card:
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 4GB
Sound card:
Onboard 7.1
Case:
Coolermaster CM 690 III
PSU:
Corsair CX600
Warranty:
3 Year SureCare Warranty

hopefully it will keep me going for a few years!

Powerful machine. With it, you are successful for a good time. Especially since this machine is still evolutive. And more precious that a space station ...

;)
 

Minti2

Deadly, But very fluffy...
Powerful machine. With it, you are successful for a good time. Especially since this machine is still evolutive. And more precious that a space station ...

;)

I still want my space-station though!!! lol oh well life wouldnt be fun if we could have everything........but i would like to try it! :p
 
Reading all this I wonder why developers don't take advantage of the quad cores available on the market now. .

I think the reason is pretty simple: multithreaded programming is extremely difficult to get right. If you're not very careful you can end up with many subtle bugs that will cost a fortune to fix. This is a particular concern for games, which are already very complex and are produced to tight deadlines. On the other hand once you have a game that is written in a parallelisable way the leap from 4 cores to 8 cores is not that big a deal.
 
Just some general advice - In light of recent developments, it may be best to just wait. Even today's top-of-the-line rigs are only going to be a mid-range system in 12 months.

Wait until the end of next year if your system will generally support ED well enough. In 2014 we're going to see the release of DDR4 RAM, the first Intel 8-core CPU (Haswell-E) a new motherboard chipset (X-99) and next-gen video cards from both AMD and Nvidia that will eat todays cards for breakfast.

It is currently the worst time to start building a rig, with all these changes coming up.

Not really. All new hardware comes at huge upfront cost (manufacturers getting back development costs), however all old hardware is cheap, tested, QA is stable. Early adaptor isn't really "wait wait there's new hardware comes around a corner" anymore. It is rich guy who likes new things, and are ready to accept early pains, and even eat the cost.

Also this game will require some nice hardware, but DDR4 RAM or 8 core CPU won't change my gaming expierence with ED unless I am going 4k, which is still ways off.

What's true though that if you are not required to upgrade right here and now (2nd beta or just wait for release), look around and wait for price to fall. Shopping season discounts, new year sales off...You can get really good deals there.
 
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I think the reason is pretty simple: multithreaded programming is extremely difficult to get right. If you're not very careful you can end up with many subtle bugs that will cost a fortune to fix. This is a particular concern for games, which are already very complex and are produced to tight deadlines. On the other hand once you have a game that is written in a parallelisable way the leap from 4 cores to 8 cores is not that big a deal.

This and here's a thing - not a lot games have 4 independed treads going on, which could be the case for ED. It is very easy to run 4 independent treads on 4 cores. It is very hard to, and even not required, to paralelize stuff in classic FPS shooter, because things happen in certain order anyway, and most of treads will just be locked and wait for right moment to unlock again. It is hard and even expensive to do.

Software which have different treads for something scales very well on multiple cores. Multimedia software. Imaging software. Server stuff. Etc. And in nutshell yeah, good proper sims should be able to use multiple cores well too.
 
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i think the op has a good point given that it looks as if moores law may be coming to an end.....for silicon at least.
 
Well, I'm just putting together a system for my lad (who's also getting a copy of E: D - he insisted after watching the Damocles vid :D ).

Trying to do it to an Xbox One/PS4 type budget:
  • CPU: Intel I5-4440 (3.1-3.3GHz, Skt 1150)
  • Mobo: Asrock Z87M PRO 4 m-ATX (has PCI-E 3.0 and 4xDIMM slots).
  • RAM: 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1866 MHz.
  • HDD: 1TB WD red (just for the reliability).
  • GFX: Using Intel HD 4600 for now, new GFX card purchased next year as required.
  • PSU: Corsair CXM 430W modular.
  • Win 7 shrink wrapped copy lying about already.
  • Case LEDs (red!). He is 13 after all, and apparently it's important. :rolleyes:

The whole lot including decent quality small tower case, gaming keyboard, laser mouse and wifi card is about £460 currently.

Plenty of upgrade potential, fairly power efficient, and next year's "best whatever graphics card for £130" should be more than a match for E: D.

New year, I'll be building something similar for me - less bling case/NO leds!

This game is costing me an absolute fortune! :mad: :D
 
As many said you can wait forever to upgrade as the next best thing is just a year away from when you buy.

Let me give the best example, Sandy Bridge CPU released and was huge gains and fantastic over clocker. This was and is a fantastic chip, then after 10 months people said I want to upgrade to a Sandy system, but people said, just wait in a few months Ivy Bridge will be released. So people waited and Ivy was 10% - 15% faster but didn't overclock as well. So those with a Sandy system no need to upgrade, but new buyers could get either and be same performance as Sandy would overclock to match the difference.

Flash forward 10 months, should I buy a Ivy or is Sandy still good enough. Wait, Haswell is being released in a few months. So people waited, and sure enough Haswell is faster then Ivy but again about 10% - 15% faster then Ivy. So end result Haswell is faster but enough to move off an Ivy system? No. Fast enough to upgrade from Sandy? Well if you want the new chipset, but over all, Sandy is still fast enough to run about the same overclocked. You see Haswell doesn't overclock as well as Ivy does. So Sandy Bridge chips are slower but with an overclock are still more then modern gaming needs.

As for Haswell E that will probably be a $1000 chip, and not worth it to most people playing games on a home PC, or doing some work. If your a professional graphic designer for instance using Photoshop (for example), that uses a lot of ram and very well multithreaded it makes sense but not for the average home user and no game company will aim for that chip. Haswell E is not mainstream, and while AMD has a lot of 8 core chips it is actually:

8 real integer "cores"
4 real FP "cores"
so called a 8 core chip. It is a nice chip but Intel are faster per core but cost more.

Graphic cards are another matter, the usual new models are a nice performance bump each year. There in lies the issue, buy now or next year, or the year after or the one after that? The answer at least for me, if my current card is playing games I use on high, I wait till that is no longer the case then upgrade. I won't wait a year, but 3-4 months I will. If a 6 month or greater wait, then odds are good any card out currently will play the game on max, if not then waiting is fine for the new card. Easy answer why if current card you use won't max it, and the newest card won't then you pay a lot but not getting the max performance, so why bother unless the current card won't play it at all.

As for memory new ram is going to be very expensive with little to no visible gain.

TLDR:
So waiting on a cpu upgrade for Haswell E is not worth it. It will be to expensive with about a $1000 (estimated) price tag on the chip itself, and DDR4 will be probably twice the price or more then DDR3 until production raises and prices drop. Just not going to be worth it for the majority of people.

Calebe
 
Well, I'm just putting together a system for my lad (who's also getting a copy of E: D - he insisted after watching the Damocles vid :D ).

Trying to do it to an Xbox One/PS4 type budget:
  • CPU: Intel I5-4440 (3.1-3.3GHz, Skt 1150)
  • Mobo: Asrock Z87M PRO 4 m-ATX (has PCI-E 3.0 and 4xDIMM slots).
  • RAM: 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1866 MHz.
  • HDD: 1TB WD red (just for the reliability).
  • GFX: Using Intel HD 4600 for now, new GFX card purchased next year as required.
  • PSU: Corsair CXM 430W modular.
  • Win 7 shrink wrapped copy lying about already.
  • Case LEDs (red!). He is 13 after all, and apparently it's important. :rolleyes:

The whole lot including decent quality small tower case, gaming keyboard, laser mouse and wifi card is about £460 currently.

Plenty of upgrade potential, fairly power efficient, and next year's "best whatever graphics card for £130" should be more than a match for E: D.

New year, I'll be building something similar for me - less bling case/NO leds!

This game is costing me an absolute fortune! :mad: :D

Get a CPU & motherboard of Ebay. Quad core i-760 will easily run at 3.6GHz with £20 heatsink & fan. More wattage on PSU at least 550.

My buy from Ebay last year
85 Intel Core i5-760@3.60GHz
55 Asus P7H55/USB3
140 ST
 
Most companies haven't taken advantage of a 4 core system yet.
What makes you think they'll take advantage of an 8 core system ?

And if modern computers dump most work to the graphics card and most games don't even get close to stressing a 12gig DDR3 ram system, why bother waiting for DDR4 ?

If your goal is to build an ultra machine designed to post the biggest most impressive specs on line then fair enough ....but if its to play Elite Dangerous in max settings, a high end machine right now I'll say will do it with little problem

Fast RAM does nothing for frame rates. Spend the money on a faster graphics card, SLI or better heatsink and cooler system (http://www.alpenfoehn.de/index.php/uebersicht-vga-kuehler/14-vga-kuehler/22-peter-79xx-edition) so you can overclock further without the temps becoming an issue. Buy 120Hz monitor/TV that will speed things up further...
 
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Nice rig Patrick. What are the leaves for? :)

If you can/want to upgrade then do it. Waiting is for bus stops and the like.
 
I fully agree with Echo Seven on this.

Yes, there's always something better on the horizon when it comes to new tech, but these days (as Echo Seven pointed out) there's more than a new and beefier graphics card on the horizon.

New CPU architecture, new RAM architecture, new motherboard chipsets (they're always new, but the next batch seems like a big leap compared to previous generations).

With so many new things on the horizon (especially DDR4), it'd be best to wait, I think.
 
I fully agree with Echo Seven on this.

Yes, there's always something better on the horizon when it comes to new tech, but these days (as Echo Seven pointed out) there's more than a new and beefier graphics card on the horizon.

New CPU architecture, new RAM architecture, new motherboard chipsets (they're always new, but the next batch seems like a big leap compared to previous generations).

With so many new things on the horizon (especially DDR4), it'd be best to wait, I think.

The problem is that the latest technologies are always very expensive
 
The thing to look out for is changes in socket. If you upgrade and the socket is retired shortly after, you've pretty much thrown money away.

But knowing this isn't a perfect defence. I got stung with my Core i7 920. I bought it when it shortly after it first came out and had dropped in price a bit. New socket (1366 iirc) so I thought it had plenty of time in it. Not so. We got a few speed bumps and the socket was unceremoniously dumped for the new 1156 (1155 maybe - can't remember now).

For the record, the 920 is still a monster cpu, triple channel ram, and nothing phases it. The motherboard is also an overclocker's dream (buttons on board and a a damn drop-down box in bios for selecting a chip to equal the performance of). I have no problem meeting the requirements of most games, but my upgrade path will no longer feature this motherboard, chip or ram.
 
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