Adv. Discovery Scanner makes Exploration less 'fun' (for me).
- Thread starter Jericho
- Start date
I definitely feel your pain OP. Yes, I have gotten lots of enjoyment from looking at the system view and reading the flavor text. I have also seen some great sights and even posted some of them.
Yet, at the end of the day, there is a certain level of tediousness and repetitiveness. When you scan the planets, the visual and audio anticipation culminating in the audio euphoria of finally exploring your 9001st planetary or solar body (and checking the system view to see the details of your newest-scanned body) gets.........repetitive.
Why not more varied audio cues and better visual representation for each type of body you scan? Why can't we have more opportunities to further investigate the dozens of water worlds and terraforming candidates we find? Why don't we have dozens of extra scanners that can provide even MORE kinds of information, depending on the type? Like a DETAILED LIFE SCANNER and a DETAILED MINERAL SCANNER and a DETAILED ATMOSPHERIC SCANNER, ALL OF WHICH HAVE TO BE INDEPENDENTLY ACTIVATED IN ORDER TO SQUEEZE MORE CREDITS OUT OF A PARTICULAR PLANET? (You know, cuz the scans interfere with each other if run independently, and give an error message when you try)
Why can't we spend hours, days or even WEEKS exploring the handful of Earth-like worlds we explorers get SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EXCITED about finding, instead of the measly 60-100k credits (or slightly more, if you are extra lucky) for finding such a rare planet type?
WHY CAN'T WE BOLDLY GO WHERE NO PERSON HAS GONE BEFORE, THE WAY THAT CAPTAIN KIRK AND CAPTAIN PICARD AND CAPTAIN JANEWAY DID?!?!?!?!?!!??!?!?
/end rant
But instead, I have to currently be satisfied with what we currently have, which is still Great....but leaves so much more to be desired. So I feel your pain OP. Here's hoping that it only gets better from here, and that the DEVs are busy working on the changes that will make exploration even better than what it is.
Yet, at the end of the day, there is a certain level of tediousness and repetitiveness. When you scan the planets, the visual and audio anticipation culminating in the audio euphoria of finally exploring your 9001st planetary or solar body (and checking the system view to see the details of your newest-scanned body) gets.........repetitive.
Why not more varied audio cues and better visual representation for each type of body you scan? Why can't we have more opportunities to further investigate the dozens of water worlds and terraforming candidates we find? Why don't we have dozens of extra scanners that can provide even MORE kinds of information, depending on the type? Like a DETAILED LIFE SCANNER and a DETAILED MINERAL SCANNER and a DETAILED ATMOSPHERIC SCANNER, ALL OF WHICH HAVE TO BE INDEPENDENTLY ACTIVATED IN ORDER TO SQUEEZE MORE CREDITS OUT OF A PARTICULAR PLANET? (You know, cuz the scans interfere with each other if run independently, and give an error message when you try)
Why can't we spend hours, days or even WEEKS exploring the handful of Earth-like worlds we explorers get SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EXCITED about finding, instead of the measly 60-100k credits (or slightly more, if you are extra lucky) for finding such a rare planet type?
WHY CAN'T WE BOLDLY GO WHERE NO PERSON HAS GONE BEFORE, THE WAY THAT CAPTAIN KIRK AND CAPTAIN PICARD AND CAPTAIN JANEWAY DID?!?!?!?!?!!??!?!?
/end rant
But instead, I have to currently be satisfied with what we currently have, which is still Great....but leaves so much more to be desired. So I feel your pain OP. Here's hoping that it only gets better from here, and that the DEVs are busy working on the changes that will make exploration even better than what it is.
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Eh hem.... actually, if you used an ADS then it was your computer that found it... and if you didn't use an ADS then I truly applaud you!
No way I could have found it without ADS. Found another example today, binary star orbiting about 6000ls from each other. Class 1 gas Giant orbiting both stars at about 20,000ls. It was completely invisible against the galaxy background even if you had tried parallax. The planet was undiscovered - so I discoed it.
Though to be truly an explorer you should get missions such as "rumours of a comet in sector <whatever> have surfaced. We need YOU to find the comet and survey it." Comet doesn't show up on DS because its too small. You need to go out there and use parallax and so on to find it.
id like to see the advanced scanner with a range of 1500 ly instead of infinite
I like the idea, except for the parallax bit... There should be some other kind of scanner that can give you some idea of where to look. I didn't enjoy the parallax bit, scanning the whole backdrop for a dot that moves slightly out of place is not my idea of fun.
I'm hoping the mission system in 1.3 will offer features for all player roles (i.e. combat, exploring, trading, etc.).
I think such quests would arise to the level of a community goal, with a nice payout to whoever first discovers it, with drastically lowered (but still sizable) rewards for subsequent scans (like a reverse tier system). After X scans are taken, the CG ends, although a severely reduced (but still lucrative) reward will exist for explorers to scan the new fixture and sell the data to Universal Cartographics.
That's pretty dang useless given how far out many planets are.
As I've said elsewhere I simply think the ADS should be much more expensive given its usefulness and there should be an in-between scanner available that scans up to 10,000ls.
IMO much better ranges for Basic and Intermediate scanners would be 1000 Ls and 100000 Ls respectively. And the Advanced one could well cost 10x current price too.
I'd rather have scanners, that reveal more at close range. Meteorites, comets, spaceships with info which direction they are traveling at what speed, etc.
Then move up to a longer range scanner, which reveals planets and various larger heavenly bodies, but doesn't give a detailed info.
Then the surface scanner for planetary exploration. Revealing a detailed info of the particular planet, giving coordinates to where to land to get various minerals and metals. Also life signs.
Then move up to a longer range scanner, which reveals planets and various larger heavenly bodies, but doesn't give a detailed info.
Then the surface scanner for planetary exploration. Revealing a detailed info of the particular planet, giving coordinates to where to land to get various minerals and metals. Also life signs.
If you did that, you better have drastically increased payouts for future scans of systems beyond this distance, or new tools to get an approximate fix on where additional planetary bodies are. And maybe a way to procedurally generate new bodies to scan, so that every system has something new to discover no matter how many times it's been scanned (after which it becomes a permanent that can be seen by all players....but only if you happen to slow down at that EXACT SPOT in space). Kind of like how you can see and eventually travel to individual rocks around a ring even when you exit SC. Even finding canisters dumped into space by players while in super-cruise, or marking specific instances with lots of jettisoned cargo so you can go back to it and pick up the rest of the cargo.....provided someone else doesn't find it first.....giving rise to all kinds of "space pirate treasure" quests.....in space.......like Space Dandy......who is a dandy guy who lives in.....(wait for it)........SPACE!
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The ADS is already the most expensive item to put into a class 1 compartment in the game. I don't really see how some extra money would "balance" it anyways.
What price did you have in mind? 10 million? 100 million?
Also, the problem remains that it would be nigh impossible to find the other stars in a binary+ system when they're 100 AU away.
That's more the route I'd take.
I'd put the basic one at 2,000 LS so it finds almost everything orbiting one sun, the intermediate at 10,000LS so it finds small binary systems and the major ones require the advanced.
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I'm the opposite, I can use a more advanced discovery scanner.
Why can't it tell me the chances of life signs in neighbouring systems. We can already tell the chemical composition of atmospheres on exoplanets today.
I rather sit still somewhere, examine nearby stars instead of jumping into lifeless systems over and over. Plan where to go instead of rolling the dice every jump.
That's a limitation of how the stellar forge server works of course, it doesn't exist until you go there. I've created over 7000 systems so far, just by showing up!
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I like the sight seeing and route finding part of exploration, getting to hard to reach places, seeking out earth like planets and imagining what it would be like to live on one of those. Different gravity, day/night/seasonal patterns/year length, temperature ranges, atmospheric pressure/composition, multiple suns, tidally locked to star, parent planetary body or moon. There is a lot of detail in these worlds if you pay attention, or maybe it's mostly my imagination.
Without the ADS my quest for the loneliest planet would probably not even have encountered a single EL planet yet, considering they are about 1 in 125 systems visited at the far edge.
Spending half an hour zooming around the habitable zone in each system is not for me. Plus the ADS lets me pick out other interesting targets to investigate more closely.
(Not that pixel hunting is any form of a challenge at the edge, the sky is black except for the thin milky way stripe)
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Exploration could be improved, definitely in the scanning part. More details as you go in closer / make a loop around.
More variation in planets would be great as well which will hopefully come with planetary landings.
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The ADS is more realistic than the galaxy map already knowing exactly what type and how many stars are in each system.
Sorry but you're not finding black holes, it says right there in the galaxy, here be a black hole.
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Removing the ADS does not change anything for those doing it for the money. Neutron star farming doesn't need the ADS.
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I choose to play without orbit lines, I find that completely immersion breaking. Which makes it a lot more difficult to determine how to get from one planet to the next or how to target the right planet in a ternary system. Yet I don't mind other people zooming up high to count the orbit lines to select the right target.
Why can't it tell me the chances of life signs in neighbouring systems. We can already tell the chemical composition of atmospheres on exoplanets today.
I rather sit still somewhere, examine nearby stars instead of jumping into lifeless systems over and over. Plan where to go instead of rolling the dice every jump.
That's a limitation of how the stellar forge server works of course, it doesn't exist until you go there. I've created over 7000 systems so far, just by showing up!
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I like the sight seeing and route finding part of exploration, getting to hard to reach places, seeking out earth like planets and imagining what it would be like to live on one of those. Different gravity, day/night/seasonal patterns/year length, temperature ranges, atmospheric pressure/composition, multiple suns, tidally locked to star, parent planetary body or moon. There is a lot of detail in these worlds if you pay attention, or maybe it's mostly my imagination.
Without the ADS my quest for the loneliest planet would probably not even have encountered a single EL planet yet, considering they are about 1 in 125 systems visited at the far edge.
Spending half an hour zooming around the habitable zone in each system is not for me. Plus the ADS lets me pick out other interesting targets to investigate more closely.
(Not that pixel hunting is any form of a challenge at the edge, the sky is black except for the thin milky way stripe)
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Exploration could be improved, definitely in the scanning part. More details as you go in closer / make a loop around.
More variation in planets would be great as well which will hopefully come with planetary landings.
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The ADS is more realistic than the galaxy map already knowing exactly what type and how many stars are in each system.
Sorry but you're not finding black holes, it says right there in the galaxy, here be a black hole.
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Removing the ADS does not change anything for those doing it for the money. Neutron star farming doesn't need the ADS.
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I choose to play without orbit lines, I find that completely immersion breaking. Which makes it a lot more difficult to determine how to get from one planet to the next or how to target the right planet in a ternary system. Yet I don't mind other people zooming up high to count the orbit lines to select the right target.
Good idea! Yes, we should find the stars easily enough (in fact, aren't they often already in the Galaxy map, so why do we find only the first one right away?), and perhaps not have too much trouble detecting gas giants and such. A bit like the detailed scanner works already.
S
Advanced Discovery Scanner makes Exploration less "fun"
I have to agree with this sentiment. I recently changed from Basic to Advanced with Surface Scanner, and set off to explore (where someone has gone before...).
Before the upgrade, exploring a system requires some skill and perception - I would make several high speed passes over the System, looking for any point of light which moved against the background of stars, periodically honking the scanner to see if there wasy anything in the vicinity. Finding an object "out there" felt like an achievement.
Now, for the past couple of weeks, I've just entered a system, honked the horn, and cruised towards each object in turn. I rarely get close enough to see the target, as I throttle back as soon as the scanner starts to avoid getting deep in the targets gravity well. My screen is just radial lines, and it feels like a chore rather than a game.
Someone said that its not compulsary to use an ADS. Unfortunately I don't agree - we are playing in the same universe, and there is a sense of competition between the players, even if they don't meet, for which we must use the best tools we can obtain.
So what would I prefer?
Assuming that the discovery scanners are passive devices (despite the honk), then the longer you are in a system, and the more you travel around, then the more likely it would be to discover objects. Each time you "honk" the scanner, while in the same system, the game could keep count of time-in-system (since first honk), and distance travelled (linear since last honk). All undiscovered objects then test their apparent luminosity (size, albino, radiance or illumination, and distance) against the cumulated time-distance and sensitivity of the Discovery Scanner, to determine if they become discovered.
So you would have to fly around a system for a while, with the best scanner you can afford, to maximise discovery; but you could not guarentee that you'd discovered everything.
Of course, this sort of change would require a "reset" of the game (from an exploration viewpoint), and so is very unlikely to occur.
Meanwhile I continue to spend many hours diligently exploring extending systems, knowing that the "Discovered By" tag has already gone to some dude who jumped into the system, honked his horn, and jumped out...
I have to agree with this sentiment. I recently changed from Basic to Advanced with Surface Scanner, and set off to explore (where someone has gone before...).
Before the upgrade, exploring a system requires some skill and perception - I would make several high speed passes over the System, looking for any point of light which moved against the background of stars, periodically honking the scanner to see if there wasy anything in the vicinity. Finding an object "out there" felt like an achievement.
Now, for the past couple of weeks, I've just entered a system, honked the horn, and cruised towards each object in turn. I rarely get close enough to see the target, as I throttle back as soon as the scanner starts to avoid getting deep in the targets gravity well. My screen is just radial lines, and it feels like a chore rather than a game.
Someone said that its not compulsary to use an ADS. Unfortunately I don't agree - we are playing in the same universe, and there is a sense of competition between the players, even if they don't meet, for which we must use the best tools we can obtain.
So what would I prefer?
Assuming that the discovery scanners are passive devices (despite the honk), then the longer you are in a system, and the more you travel around, then the more likely it would be to discover objects. Each time you "honk" the scanner, while in the same system, the game could keep count of time-in-system (since first honk), and distance travelled (linear since last honk). All undiscovered objects then test their apparent luminosity (size, albino, radiance or illumination, and distance) against the cumulated time-distance and sensitivity of the Discovery Scanner, to determine if they become discovered.
So you would have to fly around a system for a while, with the best scanner you can afford, to maximise discovery; but you could not guarentee that you'd discovered everything.
Of course, this sort of change would require a "reset" of the game (from an exploration viewpoint), and so is very unlikely to occur.
Meanwhile I continue to spend many hours diligently exploring extending systems, knowing that the "Discovered By" tag has already gone to some dude who jumped into the system, honked his horn, and jumped out...
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You're wrong there: you actually have to get close and surface-scan the planet to get the "Discovered by" tag. Have you never seen a system where only one or two objects have the "Discovered by" tag? I've seen hundreds.
Just D-scanning a system gets you a whole load of "Unexplored" objects, which is worth a small amount of credits but leaves the objects available for someone else to surface-scan and claim the "Discovered by" tag.
And your point is?
I'm sorry, but I'd like to see your raw data for the survey you've done
No, but you have to push out quite far now to find something that doesn't have someone else's fingerprints on it and we're only 4 months in. What's it going to be like in a year, 2 years, 5 years?
So?
This applies to EVERY SINGLE human activity where someone derives satisfaction.
Some people enjoy griefing. Is that valid? Elite's a sandbox, anything goes right?
No, because ships *can* be OP.
PS, don't take any of this personally, I'm just playing devil's advocate. But I will say this - the speed of exploration is utterly irrelevant to this discussion, it depends entirely on what there is to discover. It took the human race several 10's of thousands of years to get to the point where we'd explored most of one planet. To be able to determine is a system had anything of interest in less than 10 seconds doesn't quite sit right with me.
I am 580 ly from Sol and there are plenty of "virgin" systems. If you just wanted to place your name on somerhing, there is systems much closer. This is like 30ish maximum speed jumps in my Adder!
Anyway, I do like to map out a system I was first to discover. This actually slows me down - if I were to use the intermediate scanner and just scanned the star and 1000ls out, I would blitz through systems a lot faster (and there would be less virgin systems nearby, ). Let us say the adv scanner was removed - you'd be looking at a lot more profitable if you just blitzed through systems and scanned the sun and nearby planet.
Anyway, I do like to map out a system I was first to discover. This actually slows me down - if I were to use the intermediate scanner and just scanned the star and 1000ls out, I would blitz through systems a lot faster (and there would be less virgin systems nearby, ). Let us say the adv scanner was removed - you'd be looking at a lot more profitable if you just blitzed through systems and scanned the sun and nearby planet.
Then maybe it shouldn't have been found..............???
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Indeed, without the ADS it may have be nearly impossible to find certain objects, but its my opinion that some (or many!) objects should be hard to find.
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All I'm saying is that I think exploration should have some other elements to discovery that make it a more engaging process. A meta game of some sort, so that some of us actually feel like we're finding something.
Obviously, Parallax is not the solution, but for me Parallax was more engaging than Honking the horn and then going sight-seeing.
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I digress..... we've beaten this Dead Horse thoroughly enough.
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I've gotten back from my intial 4000 ly journey, I've got a few good photos from my time away from civilization, and I've got my name on a satisfactory number of objects (satifactory for me), but honestly that's it for me.... I'd love to head back out there if the FD changes some things up a little, but otherwise I'm simply having more fun with the other aspects of the game.
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I certainly admire all the awesome screen shots that you deep-spacers are taking, so please keep them coming!
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GL HF
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CMDR -Jericho-
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PS: Exploration should have a massive increase to profit.
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