Sex, Gender, and (Imperial) Titles

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Myrogia

M
This thread is pointless. Are you seriously complaining about a video game not making a point of differentiating genders when in real life we have senatrixes being labeled senators by the overbearing patriarchy? How dare those stupid old men refer to those noble, strong women (or is it womyn?) by the same same term used for the terrible monsters ruining society?

The reason why ranks aren't gender specific is because gender hasn't been relevant to those ranks in a meaningful way for many many years. It's no coincidence that some of the most powerful humans in elite are female. In a world of clones, robots, artificial realities, and Thargoids, humanity has larger things to worry about than something like gender.

The royal family does use gender specific titles because it's the royal family; they wouldn't be very royal if they didn't have tradition out the ass.
 

Daeron

Daeron
Myrogia said:
This thread is pointless. Are you seriously complaining about a video game not making a point of differentiating genders when in real life we have senatrixes being labeled senators by the overbearing patriarchy? How dare those stupid old men refer to those noble, strong women (or is it womyn?) by the same same term used for the terrible monsters ruining society?

The reason why ranks aren't gender specific is because gender hasn't been relevant to those ranks in a meaningful way for many many years. It's no coincidence that some of the most powerful humans in elite are female. In a world of clones, robots, artificial realities, and Thargoids, humanity has larger things to worry about than something like gender.

The royal family does use gender specific titles because it's the royal family; they wouldn't be very royal if they didn't have tradition out the ass.
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I see you forgot to mention slaves, as well as how we are mostly worried about the Imperial titles here, a product of proud tradition no less. Good luck getting intimate with those Thargoids, I am sure the rest is covered, wherever you're from. :D
 

Surly_Badger

Surly_Badger
Myrogia said:
The reason why ranks aren't gender specific is because gender hasn't been relevant to those ranks in a meaningful way for many many years.
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The beauty of science fiction and gaming is that it offers an opportunity to do away with some of the dumb old customs of the past - rather than enshrine them. This was a missed opportunity on FD's part.
 

Shanaeri

Shanaeri
It's pretty easy to implement and it would add to the immersion, but I suspect FD have more important core items to work on.

Besides, most good developers don't want to add a mundane feature that doesn't add much to the experience, they want to do something that makes it obviously better. In this case, an obvious improvement would be to make it so you can display your imperial/federal rank instead of just CMDR when selected by other players.
 
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Joe Spivey

Joe Spivey
Totally agree with the OP. When ED do eventually get around to doing avatars I hope they do a decent job of it with plenty of customisation of the figures. If everyone is just a black clad figure in a helmet I will be very disappointed. Joe Spivey is a short guy with a pot belly and receding hairline. I want to be able to create my forum avatar as my in-game toon.
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
All hail Lord Princess Riikka!

The developers have been made aware of gender references found wanting and have responded (one mission text was fixed to be gender neutral, that I recall). So they're somewhat aware of this.

But it does seem a glaringly obvious oversight that the gender specific titles are male gender specific. I imagine the various localisation texts haven't focused on gender because, as you say, your gender choice currently has very little impact on the game right now.

I imagine that'll change, particularly with planetary exploration and leaving your ship. In the meanwhile, I think the relevant titles should be changed to reflect gender.

I'd agree that this isn't a super high priority. But in this day and age... It's a matter of credulity.

Ps to the upset post above by Myrogia... Yes, military ranks are not and have never been gender specific. But Lord, Baron etc have always been. Lady, Baroness... Your point is invalid..
 
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SMcA

SMcA
CMDR Hagglebeard said:
This a completely irrelevant at the moment. The devs have far too much on their hands to even breathe at this.

As the teenagers would say, "take a chill pill", or perhaps a suppository.
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I find that last comment offensive. Grow up and stop being childish.

Edit: On reflection it could be interpreted as mild cyber bullying.
 
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Scrat

Scrat
At least in german military ranks there is no difference because of the gender. This leads to constructions like Mrs. Hauptmann (Mann = man in germany). It could be the imperials do not reflect the gender in military ranks and civilians use the correct gender terms.
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
Scrat said:
At least in german military ranks there is no difference because of the gender. This leads to constructions like Mrs. Hauptmann (Mann = man in germany). It could be the imperials do not reflect the gender in military ranks and civilians use the correct gender terms.
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Lord and Baron aren't military ranks. They're titles. Titles aren't gender neutral.

Although they're tied to military progression, FD have chosen to use titles, rather than military ranks.
 

Daeron

Daeron
Scrat said:
At least in german military ranks there is no difference because of the gender. This leads to constructions like Mrs. Hauptmann (Mann = man in germany). It could be the imperials do not reflect the gender in military ranks and civilians use the correct gender terms.
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Well, they can always pull the "lore card", and we must like good Imperials accept the rules!

But these are like titles and not ranks, and it also makes us more like an actual separate faction, with a different approach to how things should work. We have enough mirrors to look in, if you ask me. :)


Edit: Didn't see the above post at the time of writing slowly. Sorry. ;)
 
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Dreadp1r4te

D
Had it occurred to your highness that perhaps gender bias was completely abolished by 3301, and all titles have been adapted to suit any gender? I.e., a male or female baron is still called a baron, with no differentiation from male or female? The US Military states that any officer is to be addressed as "Sir," regardless of sex, unless otherwise requested by the officer in question. This is an identification of title and stature, not sex. Similarly, baron is a unit of rank or standing, not sex; the "-ess" suffix actually implied lower standing than the male counterpart in its original use, as did most female-specifc titles. A baroness was always overruled by her respective baron, for example.
 

Princess Riikka

P
Dreadp1r4te said:
Had it occurred to your highness that perhaps gender bias was completely abolished by 3301, and all titles have been adapted to suit any gender? I.e., a male or female baron is still called a baron, with no differentiation from male or female? The US Military states that any officer is to be addressed as "Sir," regardless of sex, unless otherwise requested by the officer in question. This is an identification of title and stature, not sex. Similarly, baron is a unit of rank or standing, not sex; the "-ess" suffix actually implied lower standing than the male counterpart in its original use, as did most female-specifc titles. A baroness was always overruled by her respective baron, for example.
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More than it occurred to some of the people here to actually read the OP. Not that anyone in particular ignored an entire paragraph just for the sake of telling me off.
 

nexxo

N
I think it's a valid observation, and something that is easy to fix. Just couple a list of rank options to gender settings. Shouldn't take long to code. By the way, why is the word for mammaries filtered out by this forum? Since when are they taboo objects? I despair of the sexual immaturity of British culture sometimes.
.
Similarly this whole thing of let's-call-female-officers-by-male-names suggests to me that the army and navy are full of men who just can't handle women. It's kind of pathetic.
 
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akr

akr
It does seem that Lord (Lady), Count (Countess), Baron (Baroness), Prince (Princess) should be changed; it's a tiny bit jarring (as is the US Military practice; you want the Federation to mirror that, perhaps?).

Unless you want to be Sir Integra Hellsing, of course. ;)
 

Ydiss

Ydiss
Dreadp1r4te said:
Had it occurred to your highness that perhaps gender bias was completely abolished by 3301, and all titles have been adapted to suit any gender? I.e., a male or female baron is still called a baron, with no differentiation from male or female? The US Military states that any officer is to be addressed as "Sir," regardless of sex, unless otherwise requested by the officer in question. This is an identification of title and stature, not sex. Similarly, baron is a unit of rank or standing, not sex; the "-ess" suffix actually implied lower standing than the male counterpart in its original use, as did most female-specifc titles. A baroness was always overruled by her respective baron, for example.
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Yes. Civilisation takes a bold step forward in the future, towards sexual equality, by abolishing all female titles and replacing them with the male versions.
 

GT3000

G
nexxo said:
I think it's a valid observation, and something that is easy to fix. Just couple a list of rank options to gender settings. Shouldn't take long to code. By the way, why is the word for mammaries filtered out by this forum? Since when are they taboo objects? I despair of the sexual immaturity of British culture sometimes.
.
Similarly this whole thing of let's-call-female-officers-by-male-names suggests to me that the army and navy are full of men who just can't handle women. It's kind of pathetic.
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Or more appropriately, women can't cut it and just because they squat when they pee doesn't mean you go changing several centuries of tradition.
 

Crank Larson

Crank Larson
Ydiss said:
Yes. Civilisation takes a bold step forward in the future, towards sexual equality, by abolishing all female titles and replacing them with the male versions.
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No, replacing them with gender neutral versions. A title and a gender should be two entirely unrelated things - a title is something you earn, while your gender is simply something you are born with. :p
 
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