Lakon Type-7 - a slightly out-of-place ship?

Esvandiary

Esvandiary
I haven't actually owned one so I'd like to hear what others think... To me, by the numbers the T7 doesn't feel like it makes that much sense at the moment.

You can get a reasonable spec T7 for about 24MCr (216T cargo, 17Ly laden jump range)
You can get a similar spec Clipper for about 28MCr (240T cargo, 17Ly laden jump range)

Both are large pad ships, but the Clipper has much more headroom in terms of power, as well as having the potential to defend itself much more effectively (as well as the potential to reconfigure it for other roles).
The Clipper is faster, more heavily-armed and arguably more agile; although the numbers suggest they're the same you can fit much better thrusters to the Clipper.
The only disadvantage the Clipper has is that you need to reach Baron in the Empire to get it, and additional outfitting might be more expensive than for the T7.

Basically, right now I feel like the T7 isn't very compelling, and I'd be interested to see if others agree and if anyone has ideas for changing that.
My personal feeling is that the T7 should fit in a medium pad; it almost does at the moment, and all it'd need is the side flaps retracting/folding when landing gear are out.
This would allow it to land at outposts, which is very useful for many trading community goals (including the current one at Eotienses), as well as other trading in general.
At the moment the only comparable medium-pad ship is the Python, which is 3x the price before outfitting even comes into it; this would give the T7 a meaningful niche, whereas at the moment it just feels like a slightly rubbish Clipper...

Thoughts? :)
 

Ancipital

Ancipital
Esvandiary said:
Basically, right now I feel like the T7 isn't very compelling, and I'd be interested to see if others agree and if anyone has ideas for changing that.
My personal feeling is that the T7 should fit in a medium pad; it almost does at the moment, and all it'd need is the side flaps retracting/folding when landing gear are out.
Click to expand...

Didn't FD say that the height of the T7 was the major factor in the pad size?
 

puca

P
If you are a trader starting from scratch, you skip the clipper and use the T7 as a stopgap between the asp and the T9. The reason you do this is that it takes far too long to grind empire rep to get the clipper. In that time you would have easily earned enough to move to a T9. This is what the T7 is for. It is on the optimal ship path to trading riches if you start from scratch.

Yes, the clipper outclasses the T7 in every category.
 

RGS

RGS
I've not flown either before (outside of beta tests), but adjusting the T-7 to fit on medium pads seems like a good suggestion to me.
 

bossbrigand

B
The T7 is really cool looking, but unfortunately it doesn't fill any roles that my Clipper doesn't. If it was able to land on medium pads (I'm guessing it doesn't fit) then it'd be a sensible buy. I suspect it may have a high passenger capacity with a low luxury rating when that's added, whereas the Clipper will have a small capacity with a high rating.
 

Captain Fizz

Captain Fizz
I have an Anaconda... Still don't have the rep for a Clipper! (One rank away)
Type 7 did me grand whilst I was in it - Perfect for me.
 

Ancipital

Ancipital
puca said:
If you are a trader starting from scratch, you skip the clipper and use the T7 as a stopgap between the asp and the T9. The reason you do this is that it takes far too long to grind empire rep to get the clipper. In that time you would have easily earned enough to move to a T9. This is what the T7 is for. It is on the optimal ship path to trading riches if you start from scratch.
Click to expand...

Eh, for some values of "too long", some people got the rep in a day. Unless you're curiously terrible at missions, it shouldn't be anywhere near as long as it takes to trade from a T7 to a T9. Utter tosh :)

As to the "a stopgap between the Asp and the T9"- that's just.. wibble. There are many paths. People who are just flatout trading their way up the ranks often go via a T-6 rather than an Asp.

Ultimately, it's personal choice. The Clipper is cheap and very easy to get. It carries a bit more, is fast and can be refitted for multirole. For the min/maxing trader going places, it might also be a better shout. Personally I hate the Clipper, and prefer flying the T7- but fly it anyway for the slightly faster earning potential. The Clipper is too tacky and blingy for my taste, and it drifts like a boss.

I love how you can just dump the T7 through the letter box and onto the pad, I love the cockpit design too. I miss the T7, the big ugly lump of metal that it is.
 
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777Driver

777Driver
I have a clipper, absolutely love the ship, but the price tag is misleading. If you are a dedicated trader you lose a huge amount of money while doing the imperial rank missions. Took me roughly 3 day's to rank up, time spent when I could have been trading meant I lost more than 20 mill before I even got to a point of hitting the purchase button.

Main advantage for the T7 was the tiny running costs & repair bills, the Clippers costs where outrageous, not an issue since the devs took a sledge hammer to that whole mechanic.

@Anciptal, things may have changed since 1.2 but you had to wait a while for rank missions to appear, you could sometimes be stuck at 1 rank for day's. I was lucky doing it in 3 day's

Still have a lot of love for the T7, mine is kitted out for mining, though I tend to just sit in it every now and again and enjoy that huge Bridge. So much larger than the T9
 
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Esvandiary

Esvandiary
Ancipital said:
Didn't FD say that the height of the T7 was the major factor in the pad size?
Click to expand...
Oh, really? That's interesting, I didn't know that... I assumed it was the width! (It's just a little bit wider than the Python, and I remember FD saying that the Python just barely fit on a medium pad)
 

puca

P
Ancipital said:
some people got the rep in a day.
Click to expand...

Do you know a single person who can post in this thread that got Baron in a day?

(a) Rank missions pop up in a random way not in your control. It can take a long time, depending on your luck.

(b) Even if it does take a day, you have to compare Clipper with a slightly bigger cargo hold vs T7 that has 1 day head start. I bet the T7 will reach T9 first even then.
 
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Ancipital

Ancipital
Esvandiary said:
Oh, really? That's interesting, I didn't know that... I assumed it was the width! (It's just a little bit wider than the Python, and I remember FD saying that the Python just barely fit on a medium pad)
Click to expand...

I think so. The search on these forums is a bit maddening, so I can't cite my sources- so best not to take that as stone gospel, just in case. It could be one of those annoying bits of "folk wisdom" that refuses to die.. :)

Edit:

The closest that I can find is:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102670&page=3&p=1590821#post1590821

Hardly conclusive, so I might be misleading you after all. Sorry.
 
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Cmdr. Numa

Cmdr. Numa
puca said:
If you are a trader starting from scratch, you skip the clipper and use the T7 as a stopgap between the asp and the T9. The reason you do this is that it takes far too long to grind empire rep to get the clipper. In that time you would have easily earned enough to move to a T9. This is what the T7 is for. It is on the optimal ship path to trading riches if you start from scratch.
Click to expand...

Not entirely true, but I guess it's correct for new players that are first placed in Fed space, not knowing about Clipper and ranks yet. If you start your career in imperial space though, it's easy to reach Baron by the time you can afford a Clipper. After crashing my first Conda without insurance I was thrown back to a T6 financially, so nowhere near rock botton Sidey. I took to empire space (had no rep or rank at all there yet) and easily outranked Baron by the time I had enough money for the Clipper.
 
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Agrar Therenus

Agrar Therenus
In my opinion all of the dedicated traders need to have their carrying capacity increased by a decent amount-- or perhaps better still decrease the cargo capacity of ships like the Clipper and maybe the Python and Anaconda.

It seems only fair, considering the Type-X ships are utterly useless at everything other than trading.
 

Poplin

Poplin
Another thing to take in to account is you are talking about the distance to a T9 from a T7/Clipper. If you decide to pick up a trade worthy Python, you are probably very close going from a T7 -> Python. To grinding your rank up for the Clipper.
 

Crank Larson

Crank Larson
Ancipital said:
Eh, for some values of "too long", some people got the rep in a day. Unless you're curiously terrible at missions, it shouldn't be anywhere near as long as it takes to trade from a T7 to a T9. Utter tosh :)
Click to expand...

I have to disagree here. I have a T7 because I got bored trying to become a Baron. I got stuck on Serf for no apparent reason... The same progression mission kept appearing (Beta Hydri), and nothing I could do would get rid of it. It disappeared by itself after two weeks, after which nothing I did could get the rank progression started again... I then gave up, but will try again when I get back to Empire.

Having said that, I have no problems with the T7. Perfectly good ship for trading.

I never grind. I play Elite. As soon as something becomes tedious, move on... :)

EDIT: Or is Beta Hydri a federation system? Can't remember now. Anyway, I got one permit with Empire and that was it! :D
 
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bamber

B
Personally I like the T7

It's really the first ship that can make the money to upgrade another ship quite quickly and is the first decent trader
 

Ancipital

Ancipital
purplepomegranite said:
I have to disagree here. I have a T7 because I got bored trying to become a Baron. I got stuck on Serf for no apparent reason... The same progression mission kept appearing (Beta Hydri), and nothing I could do would get rid of it. It disappeared by itself after two weeks, after which nothing I did could get the rank progression started again... I then gave up, but will try again when I get back to Empire.

Having said that, I have no problems with the T7. Perfectly good ship for trading.

I never grind. I play Elite. As soon as something becomes tedious, move on... :)

EDIT: Or is Beta Hydri a federation system? Can't remember now. Anyway, I got one permit with Empire and that was it! :D
Click to expand...

I did mine in a few evenings of very casual play- 1-2 hours on a stretch. As long as people ignore the permit "missions", and avoid the assassinations (which are slow and buggy), it can be a walk in the park- multiple rankups per evening were normal. As long as you keep an eye on your rep level, and move when you hit "allied" with minor factions, it's nice and fast. Obviously, the RNG gods can slow you down if the rank missions don't want to pop- but only to a point.

I totally agree with you regarding tedium- though.. I was actually doing it as a break from trading. I just hopped in my Vulture and went on a rampage in Imperial space, it was a fantastic change of pace. I'll probably do the Federal missions soon, for a similar break. It was a nice mix of combat, retrieval and delivery grunt work. I loved that the Baron mission involved moving 3T of grain 8LY - such a wonderful anticlimax.

I also have no problem with the T7, I actually enjoy flying it slightly more than the Clipper. I have been forcing myself to fly a Clipper right now to build up the toys fund a little faster, so I can take more diversions, though I am not particularly fond of it. I may have to just bite the bullet and grab a Python to replace it when I have a few more credits on hand.
 
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