6 Easy Ways to Make Exploration Deeper and More Rewarding

Missions: Have stations issue special rewards for collecting data on specific types of planets or stars. The rewards would be in addition to the normal rewards you get for discovering planets. Like other missions, these exploration goals will be on timers to keep things interesting.

For example:

-Find 6 "unknown" metallic planets within 100 LY of this station for a 100K reward. TIME LIMIT: 2 Hours
-Find 1 "unknown" Earthlike world within 200 LY of this station for a 250K reward TIME LIMIT: 24 Hours
-Find 1 previously unexplored Earthlike world, for a 1Million reward, TIME LIMIT: 3 Days, when you get there you are given a special probe that you launch at the planet to claim it in the name of quest giver system's faction. You still get your name on the discovery rights.


Collect Them All: If you scan every body in a system, you get a completion bonus equal to the value of whole system.

Being a little OCD should be rewarded. Especially in explorers, and this would add value to ice worlds, which despite being almost worthless are actually quite beautiful up close.


Reduce the Range of Detailed Surface Scans/ Increase the Rewards: We should have an incentive (or at least not be punished) for getting close enough to enjoy the beauty of the planets in a system. Right now the fastest way to make money at exploring is to scan the planets from as far away as possible and jump to a new system. Most of the time all you see is the parent star and some orbital lines. It's not a very inspiring way to explore.


Remove "Spoilers" from a D Scan on the System Map: A D-Scan would reveal only the position, mass, and distance of the planet/moon/star, so if you look on the System Map it would show only a plain grey circle indicating it's size but none of it's surface features. The System Map would update with the current full-color graphical representation, including the normal composition data, only after it had been surface scanned by the ship.

This change would preserve the feeling of curiosity and discovery, and foster an addictive sense of gambling ( Eg. Should I risk my time if it's just an ice world? but what if it's really an earthlike?? Only one way to find out! ).


Make the Surface Scanner an active button press: This is a really simple thing, but just making the scanning process an active (like the D-Scanner) would increase the amount of participation an explorer feels. It would also be nice if there was a scan progress indicator like the one for the Warrant or Cargo scanners. The current passive scanner often feels like waiting for a movie to buffer on a slow connection. It isn't a pleasant or empowering sensation.


Give Rewards for Asteroid Belts: Asteroid belts are one of the few places in the game that have gameplay related redeemable economic value, and yet their discovery is worthless to cartographers? It makes no logical sense. I think sharing the discovery should result in a large CR reward, and the cost would be that it would no longer be a "secret." If you turn in your scanned info, and make it public, maybe the next you go there, the RES will have changed from "pristine" to "common" reserves. Giving the info to a specific faction should also have tangible consequences in Power Play.
 
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All very good points, and along the lines of what I've been contemplating on the subject as well.

The added bonus is that they should all be relatively easy (I'm not a programmer :)) to implement with the some alterations to the existing elements already in place.

I love seeing all the work that went into making the gorgeous looking planets, but it's all too tempting to scan the planets when they're no more than points of light.


Andrew
 
Interesting ideas, indeed, and well thought out. My own personal belief, though, is that the problem with exploration is not how we scan, its what we scan.

There have been numerous suggestions to make the scanning more involved, like masking worlds before surface scanning, and changing the ranges of the Discovery scanners, etc., but, in the end I don't see that as making it any less tedious. What I think is sorely needed is the ability find more interesting things. (I also don't think it would be fair to people who are just starting if the process of exploration suddenly got more complex.)

I've always been in favor of there being Random Exploration Anomalies, little weird things on worlds the liven things up. It wouldn't have to be more than additional text in the descriptions.

I do like the idea of missions. One sort of thing might be along the lines of a bulletin board mission: "Scientists at Yaso Kondi University are looking for Ammonia worlds, find a bunch and we'll pay more." I like that sort of thing, though the current system would make it tough. We have to hand in by system, not by object, and unless one writes down their finds its very tedious to find them in the mass of data that goes to Universal Cartographic.

I'm neutral on the idea of a completion bonus. I rarely if every scan every object in a system, but certainly don't want to hinder those who do. I do think we should get something for asteroids, in total agreement with you there.

I would like addition modules, say to make a close pass for atmospheric readings, or a module that includes surface probes (which might have a limited amount of "ammo" so you need to think before shooting a probe).

First though, I wish they would alter the means in which we turn in data. Even a page of 20 systems on a time is massively timewasting. We should be able to dump the whole thing in one click - and then have a means to looks over what we have done. Statistics on the different types of worlds we have found, and the ability to see where we have been easily on the Galaxy Map.
 
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Very nice ideas and suggestions. I agree with all but one: the ADS.

I understand what people against showing all are coming from in terms of discovering, specially the parallax fans.

However, three things bother me with not having the option to decide what to scan.

The first thing is time and pragmatism. If we were in the dark with systems, it would take forever to cover a single 1,000 ly stretch. I'm talking about days for a dedicated player and I would dare to say most of us can't play more than 2-3 hrs a day, if we are lucky. As it is, people are taking days, weeks and even months to venture out.

Second thing is immersion/realism? Look, is 2015. Compared to 3,301, our technology is pretty archaic and limited. Yet, today we can spot planets thousands of light years away, with their masses, size, chemical composition and temperature. We even got artists specialized in drawing the planets according to the data collected. Is already beyond me how in over 1,000 years in the future we don't even have a clue of how many planets are in a star before reaching it, to now add that we wouldn't know more or less how they look, while being right there in the system, when we can do that now, from a huge distance.

The third thing is the whining that would accompany that "nerf". It will be huge. Even if it doesn't and passed, you will then have someone opening a forum thread proposing that the ADS should show the planets and their approximate colors, etc., etc.

Finally, I do think another set of scanners is being worked on in the depths of the FDev pipe. This scanner will require you to be very close to the planet and will scan its complete surface. I think i saw a video from a concept from one year ago and that's all I could conjeture from it. My guess: it will be used to gather more information before landing.

Anyways, scan changes have to be made extremely careful because the First Discovery Tag is currently linked to the usage of the detailed scanner. Messing up with that mechanichs, is messing up with the entire 1st tag system as it is.
 
Interesting ideas, indeed, and well thought out. My own personal belief, though, is that the problem with exploration is not how we scan, its what we scan.

I agree 100% and these 6 ideas are just the simplest ones that I can think of that would be "easy" to implement until the bigger planetary landing patch comes out. They are meant to address broken incentives in the core gameplay of exploring, and anything else on top of this would be gravy.

Very nice ideas and suggestions. I agree with all but one: the ADS.

However, three things bother me with not having the option to decide what to scan.

The first thing is time and pragmatism. If we were in the dark with systems, it would take forever to cover a single 1,000 ly stretch. I'm talking about days for a dedicated player and I would dare to say most of us can't play more than 2-3 hrs a day, if we are lucky. As it is, people are taking days, weeks and even months to venture out.

Anyways, scan changes have to be made extremely careful because the First Discovery Tag is currently linked to the usage of the detailed scanner. Messing up with that mechanichs, is messing up with the entire 1st tag system as it is.

Apologies if it wasn't clear, but the ADS range wouldn't change, just the surface detail. The ADS would still give position,mass, and size, which would include orbital structure. The size and mass and distance would be enough for clever explorers to guess the likely composition, and the parent star type and age would be another clue. Since you have the location, there is no need to hunt down objects, as everything would still be targetable, and show up on the nav computer.

I kind of buried in my wall of text, but none of what I suggested would alter the 1st tag system. That should of course stay intact.

As for "nerfs", the system I proposed would keep the current reward structure intact as well. You could still scan from a distance and get the same reward you get now. But it would give bonus points for flying closer so that a person "stopping to smell the roses" could make as much money as someone who was trying to zoom through as many systems as possible in one night. This would allow more people to play how they want without getting penalized ;)
 
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Interesting ideas !

It's always bothered me that asteroid belts give zero credits.
They also give a bonus of 0 credits for first discovery. very odd.
And level 3 scans, what's that all about ?

I'd say there's a lot more gameplay mechanics to come for exploring, I hope some are introduced with 1.3.
 
Missions: Have stations issue special rewards for collecting data on specific types of planets or stars. The rewards would be in addition to the normal rewards you get for discovering planets. Like other missions, these exploration goals will be on timers to keep things interesting.

For example:

-Find 6 "unknown" metallic planets within 100 LY of this station for a 100K reward. TIME LIMIT: 2 Hours
-Find 1 "unknown" Earthlike world within 200 LY of this station for a 250K reward TIME LIMIT: 24 Hours
-Find 1 previously unexplored Earthlike world, for a 1Million reward, TIME LIMIT: 3 Days, when you get there you are given a special probe that you launch at the planet to claim it in the name of quest giver system's faction. You still get your name on the discovery rights.


Collect Them All: If you scan every body in a system, you get a completion bonus equal to the value of whole system.

Being a little OCD should be rewarded. Especially in explorers, and this would add value to ice worlds, which despite being almost worthless are actually quite beautiful up close.


Reduce the Range of Detailed Surface Scans/ Increase the Rewards: We should have an incentive (or at least not be punished) for getting close enough to enjoy the beauty of the planets in a system. Right now the fastest way to make money at exploring is to scan the planets from as far away as possible and jump to a new system. Most of the time all you see is the parent star and some orbital lines. It's not a very inspiring way to explore.


Remove "Spoilers" from a D Scan on the System Map: A D-Scan would reveal only the position, mass, and distance of the planet/moon/star, so if you look on the System Map it would show only a plain grey circle indicating it's size but none of it's surface features. The System Map would update with the current full-color graphical representation, including the normal composition data, only after it had been surface scanned by the ship.

This change would preserve the feeling of curiosity and discovery, and foster an addictive sense of gambling ( Eg. Should I risk my time if it's just an ice world? but what if it's really an earthlike?? Only one way to find out! ).


Make the Surface Scanner an active button press: This is a really simple thing, but just making the scanning process an active (like the D-Scanner) would increase the amount of participation an explorer feels. It would also be nice if there was a scan progress indicator like the one for the Warrant or Cargo scanners. The current passive scanner often feels like waiting for a movie to buffer on a slow connection. It isn't a pleasant or empowering sensation.


Give Rewards for Asteroid Belts: Asteroid belts are one of the few places in the game that have gameplay related redeemable economic value, and yet their discovery is worthless to cartographers? It makes no logical sense. I think sharing the discovery should result in a large CR reward, and the cost would be that it would no longer be a "secret." If you turn in your scanned info, and make it public, maybe the next you go there, the RES will have changed from "pristine" to "common" reserves. Giving the info to a specific faction should also have tangible consequences in Power Play.

I like these ideas in general, except for a few things:

- I don't want an extra button just to use the detailed surface scanner. But I agree it should only work at a closer distance. I would imagine the standard scan would remain the same as is it now, and the detailed scanner automatically kicks in once you approach close enough. (Maybe the extra payout for the detailed scan needs to be increased to accommodate for the extra time spent).

- I am against any form of completion bonus because it is, in my view, just too openly, 4th-wall-breakingly gamey. In reality, how do you ever know you have found any object in a system? Well, you don't. I know the ADS allows us to find everything immediately, but still one might imagine that it can only detect objects down to a certain size etc.

- Instead of a completion bonus to entice visiting the remotest objects (in the 100,000 Ls and higher range), there could be bonus payouts for objects that are simply harder (read: need more time/fuel/patience) to reach.

- I don't really like these missions you propose. I would rather imagine they send you to map out a specific system (or set of systems), and to be rather generous with the amount of time - while a cargo delivery may need to reach a destination on time for a factory to not run out of raw materials, what does it matter whether they get the scan data now, in a few hours, or a few days? I would rather exploration missions in general be long-distance, long-term, target-driven. For example: "Telescope data hints at multiple exoplanets around the star XYZ-123 1000Ly from here, several of them candidates for terrestrials in the habitable zone. Make detailed scans of every object within 2000Ls of the star, return within 7 days. We will pay twice the regular rate for all scans in the system, plus a fixed bonus of 1000000cr upon completion of the primary objective."
 

Jon474

Banned
Excellent ideas both from OP and replies.

It would be nice to see these ideas happen.

Flying happy
Jon
 
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Coming back from deep expoloration is a let down. I would like to see a welcoming committee complete with a brass band, bunting, alcohol and a little medal ceremony, with rapturous applause as you enter the space station.
Oh...and no pizza....its all I have had for days on end....

Yeah, I know, its not going to happen, but it does in my strange brain....
 
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- I don't really like these missions you propose. I would rather imagine they send you to map out a specific system (or set of systems), and to be rather generous with the amount of time - while a cargo delivery may need to reach a destination on time for a factory to not run out of raw materials, what does it matter whether they get the scan data now, in a few hours, or a few days? I would rather exploration missions in general be long-distance, long-term, target-driven. For example: "Telescope data hints at multiple exoplanets around the star XYZ-123 1000Ly from here, several of them candidates for terrestrials in the habitable zone. Make detailed scans of every object within 2000Ls of the star, return within 7 days. We will pay twice the regular rate for all scans in the system, plus a fixed bonus of 1000000cr upon completion of the primary objective."

Seconded on that.
 
Apologies if it wasn't clear, but the ADS range wouldn't change, just the surface detail. The ADS would still give position,mass, and size, which would include orbital structure. The size and mass and distance would be enough for clever explorers to guess the likely composition, and the parent star type and age would be another clue. Since you have the location, there is no need to hunt down objects, as everything would still be targetable, and show up on the nav computer.

Probably it was me who wasn't clear. You are proposing to obscure the planets in the system map after the ADS. I was referring specifically to this as a "nerf" since is limiting current abilities of the ADS. To which I am saying that we know how planets look like from thousands of light years now, chances are we will know even more in 3,301 and BEING in the system.


I kind of buried in my wall of text, but none of what I suggested would alter the 1st tag system. That should of course stay intact.

No, you didn't propose this explicitly but would be a by product of some of the changes proposed. Again, apologies as it seems I might have jumped to conclusions too early.

The 1st tag system is given to explorers only after they have used the DSS. Any other additional scanner on top of that or even changing the current dynamics of the DSS will effectively affect the 1st tag system.


As for "nerfs", the system I proposed would keep the current reward structure intact as well. You could still scan from a distance and get the same reward you get now. But it would give bonus points for flying closer so that a person "stopping to smell the roses" could make as much money as someone who was trying to zoom through as many systems as possible in one night. This would allow more people to play how they want without getting penalized ;)

Hope that above explanations help to clarify this as well. I did understand the proposal, I was pointing out some collateral effects they would bring.

In general, as Fen Harel mentions, overhauling the whole exploring system might negatively affect the new explorers. And that's the big care we need to have when approaching these changes.

After all, is not like we are looking for a tresure or tomb raiders...these are planets here, pretty hard to hide if you ask me...specially with technology from 1,000 years in the future...
 
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Coming back from deep expoloration is a let down. I would like to see a welcoming committee complete with a brass band, bunting, alcohol and a little medal ceremony, with rapturous applause as you enter the space station.
Oh...and no pizza....its all I have had for days on end....

Yeah, I know, its not going to happen, but it does in my strange brain....

I'm right with you went it comes to this. I will be imagining a ticker tape parade being thrown on my return.
That said, I've decided to stay out here for many more months to come, even though I'm a little disillusioned with exploration as it is now.
I've searched for all of the usual stuff (BH, NS, EL & WW), and found many examples of each, but from now on I'm hunting for Sci-Fi.
 
Probably it was me who wasn't clear. You are proposing to obscure the planets in the system map after the ADS. I was referring specifically to this as a "nerf" since is limiting current abilities of the ADS. To which I am saying that we know how planets look like from thousands of light years now, chances are we will know even more in 3,301 and BEING in the system.

After all, is not like we are looking for a tresure or tomb raiders...these are planets here, pretty hard to hide if you ask me...specially with technology from 1,000 years in the future...


Hmmm. I'm not sure where you got the idea that we can image exoplanets. That is simply not the case. Exoplanet knowledge is all done by inference, measuring minute luminosity changes in the parent star, not any kind of direct observation. We have actually imaged a handful of large nearby stars to directly measure their gross angular size. But all distant planets are too small and too dim to view directly in this way. We cannot even see detail on those huge nearby stars!

consistency is the key to believable sci fi...

Who knows what we'll be able to do in 1300 years? I am not opposed to using tech that is impossible according to modern physics, but I would like the game to be consistent. If an ADS can get enough surface detail to make an image on the system map, then it would also get enough data to know the composition and if it had life etc. All of that data can be found in absorption lines from a spectral analysis of the raw image file. That is actually something we do in the 21st century, even with a very blurry picture. Heck, we could analyze the composition of a planet while it was a distant point of light. To be inexplicably hamstrung in the 34th makes no sense, knowing only an visual picture but not its raw spectral analysis? So if we need to use DSS to get this data, it shouldn't also be easily available in the ADS data. Getting this info wouldn't require a closer DSS sweep, but just running the old ADS data through a computer.

so either the ADS is a merely some kind of gravimetric doplar system, or it is a magic infinite range full sky pocket camera. It can't be both and retain its credibility. Otherwise the DSS is just an artificial means to slow down exploration, and that would be kind of sad.

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alternatively, you could have the ADS reveal all of the systems basic info, composition, etc, and then have the detail surface scan produce a physical map with information on planetary RES etc. this would be a massive improvement since right now we essentially have two different scanners doing the same job, revealing the same info on two different menu screens. Creating a cognitive dissonance that forces a suspension of disbelief.
 
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Personally I think its too late to change the basic mechanics of the ADS and Surface Scanner. The uproar would be tremendous - and frankly justified - if things suddenly got harder. I agree with Commander Kancro Vantas on that.

Instead of changing what we have, I think it would be better - both for current and future explorers - to add new things. Say, new types of modules for new types of exploration. I think I mentioned atmosphere and surface probes above.
 
Hmmm. I'm not sure where you got the idea that we can image exoplanets. That is simply not the case. Exoplanet knowledge is all done by inference, measuring minute luminosity changes in the parent star, not any kind of direct observation. We have actually imaged a handful of large nearby stars to directly measure their gross angular size. But all distant planets are too small and too dim to view directly in this way. We cannot even see detail on those huge nearby stars!

consistency is the key to believable sci fi...

Who knows what we'll be able to do in 1300 years? I am not opposed to using tech that is impossible according to modern physics, but I would like the game to be consistent. If an ADS can get enough surface detail to make an image on the system map, then it would also get enough data to know the composition and if it had life etc. All of that data can be found in absorption lines from a spectral analysis of the raw image file. That is actually something we do in the 21st century, even with a very blurry picture. Heck, we could analyze the composition of a planet while it was a distant point of light. To be inexplicably hamstrung in the 34th makes no sense, knowing only an visual picture but not its raw spectral analysis? So if we need to use DSS to get this data, it shouldn't also be easily available in the ADS data. Getting this info wouldn't require a closer DSS sweep, but just running the old ADS data through a computer.

so either the ADS is a merely some kind of gravimetric doplar system, or it is a magic infinite range full sky pocket camera. It can't be both and retain its credibility. Otherwise the DSS is just an artificial means to slow down exploration, and that would be kind of sad.

Edit:
alternatively, you could have the ADS reveal all of the systems basic info, composition, etc, and then have the detail surface scan produce a physical map with information on planetary RES etc. this would be a massive improvement since right now we essentially have two different scanners doing the same job, revealing the same info on two different menu screens. Creating a cognitive dissonance that forces a suspension of disbelief.


Here:

http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/archive/category/exoplanets/

This is just first site I picked up on exoplanets imagery. The website is related to the Hubble telescope. Nowhere did I say that we are looking directly to the planet, but should have mention that we SPECULATE about the look of the planet based on the information they are gathering on their discovery. The images are based precisely on those findings and to that extent, is speculation and we won't know how accurate they are in a very long time. However, they are the work of best than average educated guesstimate today and from afar. Being in the future and in the system should just give us a better picture, the kind of ADS currently provides.

Not that it really make sense and is truly, thinking too much into it, because as it is, we do know with much higher precision the temperatures in those exoplanets, but in-game, we are clueless about it until DSS. Also, the orrery view of the system map, which will show the orbits and the structure of the system in 3D is still on the works and it will be coming in next updates as confirmed by DB in the AMA, just recently. So, if anything, the ADS info will draw a better picture of the system then.


Onto other matters in your OP that I left out on my first post:

Missions - Agreed, need a more active role in those. As suggested by someone else, it should be also long journeys and pay a lot more for the time!!

Collect Them All - Fully agree. This is almost a MUST actually. What are asteroids good for if not to complete the system scan? And as pointed out, the icy planets? Also, gives us OCD's some reward for completion. I don't get how this would be a bad thing. Value of the reward can be discussed. I would be happy even if its as low as 25% bonus but hey, more is better!

An additional suggestion here: Bonus Based on Distance: This is also a MUST in my eyes. 5% Total System Value Increase for every 1,000ly from SOL. By 20,000 ly you are at 100% bonus, by 40,000 200% and 60,000 300%. Only fair for bothering scanning even an icy planet just soooo far out. And come back! It should be combined with the Complete System Bonus, make up for a single bonus based on completeness and distance at the same time, maybe?

Reduce range and make active button for DSS - My bet is that there will be another set of scanner(s) to scan the planets in search of: mineral, type of life, type of gases, components needed for terraforming, etc. I swear I saw pics of a scanner concept in the works by FDEV that seemed to work only if you had the entire planet in front of you. I imagine that would come right before landing on planets.

However, putting any other extra layer on top of DSS is risky because of the 1st Discovery Tag. I imagine this level of up-close scan will probably not be useful for UC but for explorers to land on the planets, hence, they don't need to be shared or claimed as discoverer. I dunno. What I do know, is that they can't possibly come back and say, "Guess what? You need one of these upclose scans now to have the 1st Discoverer Tag".....
 
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Great suggestions, but also: make exploration more dangerous.

We regularly fly into places (like near Sagittarius A*) that would be radioactive hell, or hot enough to turn us into fluffy clouds of plasma. We zoom around where the Xrays would bake us so violently that we'd feel it happening. Us hardcore explorers would stagger around, living our brief lives before the cancers got us, with our hair falling out and our organs failing... OK, maybe not the long-term damage but, seriously, flying too close to a black hole ought not to be survivable in a galaxy where the punishment for loitering in a space-dock is death.

Edit: I also wish there was some useful way to integrate photography with exploration. I know the DSS basically maps the entire object in great detail, but it'd be fun if there was some way to get credit for collecting pictures of certain things. There could be a whole mini-game around sending probes to collect life-forms (and probe them in the anus!) for science.
 
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Great suggestions, but also: make exploration more dangerous.

We regularly fly into places (like near Sagittarius A*) that would be radioactive hell, or hot enough to turn us into fluffy clouds of plasma. We zoom around where the Xrays would bake us so violently that we'd feel it happening. Us hardcore explorers would stagger around, living our brief lives before the cancers got us, with our hair falling out and our organs failing... OK, maybe not the long-term damage but, seriously, flying too close to a black hole ought not to be survivable in a galaxy where the punishment for loitering in a space-dock is death.

Edit: I also wish there was some useful way to integrate photography with exploration. I know the DSS basically maps the entire object in great detail, but it'd be fun if there was some way to get credit for collecting pictures of certain things. There could be a whole mini-game around sending probes to collect life-forms (and probe them in the anus!) for science.


LOL...OMG!! What kind of post is this?... Repped....so harsh and making no sense!!.....X-rays...ppftt....oh boy!

"Probe them in the anus" is about the most reasonably scientific idea here...up to there you had it all wrong!..:p:p:p
 
I agree with making the environment more dangerous. Coronal Mass Ejections that strip the shields from your ship and shut down your systems for 30 seconds. Flares that flash up suddenly and cause massive thermic damage if you don't get away fast enough. Black holes stealing stellar material from companions, with dangerous accretion disks and polar jets which will reduce your ship to ash if you get near them. Comets, and their tails that - if you fly through them in SC - cause hull damage.
 
Coming back from deep expoloration is a let down. I would like to see a welcoming committee complete with a brass band, bunting, alcohol and a little medal ceremony, with rapturous applause as you enter the space station.
Oh...and no pizza....its all I have had for days on end....

Yeah, I know, its not going to happen, but it does in my strange brain....

It really is a let down, and what brings it down isn't a lack of bands (whether brass or mariachi), its having to wander over to the offices of Universal Cartographics and spend hours turning it all in. Sure it was worse when it was a one system-per-click, but by the Maker I hope they do something to make this go faster!

- - - Updated - - -

Edit: I also wish there was some useful way to integrate photography with exploration. I know the DSS basically maps the entire object in great detail, but it'd be fun if there was some way to get credit for collecting pictures of certain things. There could be a whole mini-game around sending probes to collect life-forms (and probe them in the anus!) for science.

I have no opionon on the orifice of choice for probing those tiny little lifeforms, but having probes to shoot down to a planet or through the atmosphere would be a great addition.
 
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