1984 Elite vs 2014 Elite

Insomnia

Insomnia
Hey all!

I've been playing Elite Dangerous since the start of 2015 but became curious about ED at the end of last year as I just wanted a cool space game.
I had no idea there were previous Elite games. Especially not all the way from 1984. I was only three years by that time and the only game I had tried was Super Mario.

What gets me slightly troubled is that many people seem to compare the original game to ED.
This seem quite outrageous as the industry (and its croud) has changed dramatically over the past 30 years, and the average gamer demands a whole lot more than a game from '84.
On Facebook and on other social networks, I see tons of comments from people claiming refunds because the game simply is too 'simple' in its design.

Can it be that Elite Dangerous wants to be too much like its predecessor?
Or is this just my misconception of what the franchise is all about?
 

withnail

withnail
Have you played the original game? I would recommend it, I find it still engaging today, plus it would provide a good reflection on the development of the original series.

I think that this game is far more complex than the original, probably due to the multiplayer aspect and the background simulation.

Once power play is added you can expect another whole layer of complexity.
 
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[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
ED IS more complex than Elite 1984. There is more to the flight mechanics, missions etc (albeit not as fleshed out as the later elite games yet... 1.3 fingers crossed!) and just more "stuff" in general, not to mention multiplayer and the size!. Also what we have now is only the start. hopefully there is much more to come.

That being said, it is very rare for a sequel to go totally away from its roots and indeed it would be silly for them to in elite imo.

look at the assassins creed games, or farcry, or forza, Gran turismo, GTA (forgetting the 2D games when the hardware could not do 3D) or the X games (rebirth is possibly the exception here and look how badly that was received!). All are essentially more of the same, just improving the eye candy and tweaking things........

that is not to say I do not want more stuff in ED, or that indeed it needs more stuff if the game is to last long term....................... but I would be terribly dissapointed if ED ventured too far from its roots.
 
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iSteel

iSteel
1984 Elite was something different at that time. A space simulator, trading and combat. Now if compare ED to it we have the same with more. Flying is more complex and has variation like thrusters, booster etc. '84 version you just controlled your forward thrust and where your nose points. Now we have to choose our equipment suitable for situations. Back then you could upgrade to best stuff and stay there. '84 we only had Cobra, nothing else. Oh, and craphics is quite much better :) As well the multiplayer aspect.

What made original Elite shine was that there was no competing products at that time (as I remember). Now we have tons of other games, space sims, war sims, etc. to steal our attention.
 

SteveLaw

SteveLaw
The original economy model was arguably more complex than the current markets. The whole aspect of smuggling and trading in illegal goods at least.
 
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Mogz

Mogz
got to remember aswell ED is a young game, that is still growing, the more its built on, the more expansive the content gets and the more layers of depth it adds to everything gameplay wise, ED hasnt been released as a full and complete game, something that others miss the point on, the evolution of elite has been fantastic by frontier so far, obviously there have been gripes and issues, but they have been rather quick to react and fix things and push more content out
 
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Insomnia

Insomnia
Your reactions are interesting.
It seems that there's a lot of nostalgia involved in this.
But you can't build a game on nostalgia in my opinion. It has to stand up on its own legs and not rely on some legacy.
And I won't go play an old space game from 1984. I have nothing against games giving hints to what original versions was like, I don't think you can build on it.


Please don't get me wrong though. I still love the game and I recently bought a HOTAS controller just for ED, plus I started using 3 monitors just for ED.
I wonder where the game will be 10 years from now.
I'm hoping ED to be what I always dreamed of: A space game to live in, a game to spend hours upon hours and do everything I always wanted in space.
 

Dommarraa

Dommarraa
In many respects, ED is the same game as E84 but with better graphics, a bigger universe, and multi player. I don't see that as a bad thing, a good game is a good game. There have been many space games with better graphics in the intervening years, but none of them were a space sim like Elite. Story Arcs are great, but not all games have to be Story Arcs.
 

digitalscream

Banned
D
Insomnia said:
Hey all!

I've been playing Elite Dangerous since the start of 2015 but became curious about ED at the end of last year as I just wanted a cool space game.
I had no idea there were previous Elite games. Especially not all the way from 1984. I was only three years by that time and the only game I had tried was Super Mario.

What gets me slightly troubled is that many people seem to compare the original game to ED.
This seem quite outrageous as the industry (and its croud) has changed dramatically over the past 30 years, and the average gamer demands a whole lot more than a game from '84.
On Facebook and on other social networks, I see tons of comments from people claiming refunds because the game simply is too 'simple' in its design.

Can it be that Elite Dangerous wants to be too much like its predecessor?
Or is this just my misconception of what the franchise is all about?
Click to expand...

You've completely misunderstood. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that you fundamentally missed the point.

They managed to build an entire game and galaxy (via procedural generation) so that it fit into less than 32KB, which was all that was available on the BBC B at the time. That's less than the size of the average email, for context.

The thing is, Elite: Dangerous is the game they would have built in 1984, had the technology been available. Rather than thinking of Elite: Dangerous as a continuation of Elite #84, you should be thinking of Elite '84 as an approximation and rough outline of Elite: Dangerous.
 

Aewarin Jameson

Aewarin Jameson
SteveLaw said:
The original economy model was arguably more complex than the current markets. The whole aspect of smuggling and trading in illegal goods at least.
Click to expand...

This thread is about the comparison between ED and the original Elite (84) in which case the economy models are identical - a list of commodities that are "banded" so that the price, depending upon various factors, fluctuate between an upper and lower limit. Both version are the same. I didn't play Elite-2 or any of the variants so I don't know how they handled the economy.

Original Elite didn't have smuggling - all cargo scooped was just cargo. Illegal goods however were in the 84 version. (Narcotics, Firearms and Slaves IIRC - 84 was a long time ago :))

--

As far as comparisons go the 84 version of Elite and ED are similar in some aspects but the 2014 version is far more advanced - Newtonian flight model (with flight assist override); missions (the original 84 version only had missions once you reached Elite and even then they were quite simplistic & limited in number); Local factions have been introduced; docking now requires you to land on a pad rather than arrive at the entrance; etc.

I think FD have done a good job with ED for the initial release given the time frames involved, however from participating in the DDF the vision that FD had was so much more than we have today - I am sure in time more features will be introduced, like Power Play (1.3) and so on.
 

Insomnia

Insomnia
puca said:
Ok, see ya, OP. There are some nice Halo games out for you. This game isn't for you, and that's ok. Not every game is for everyone.
Click to expand...

Like I said, I still love the game. While Halo games are cool, I'd rather play Mass Effect games. ;)
 

Philip Coutts

Volunteer Moderator
Philip Coutts
The original Elite was groundbreaking. It threw away the rule book at the time and created an entirely new type of game. ED doesn't do that, it couldn't as it's a sequel of sorts. It had to tread the same path to a degree. But ED is far more complex and with the improvements set to come it will be even more so. Important to remember as well that ED is still pushing the boundaries with it's support of the Occulus Rift. I think that given time ED can become a game that feels like it is truly "living" but that also requires input from the user in the form of imagination. There are stories to be written but you have to do it yourself and that to me is the key element here.
 

Steve50

Steve50
Ydiss said:
Name me a game that is, these days.
Click to expand...

Sadly none as 99% of developers/publishers stick to "safe bets". Thats why we see 500 different FPS games a year, the unwashed masses and "casuals" buy those games every day.

In 1984 Acornsoft took a risk and went with Elite when every other game had a score, 3 lives and extra lives every 10,000pts. They took a risk and Elite exploded on the scene. Sadly very very few if any companies would take such a risk these days.

Elite brought totally new stuff to gaming and it was so awesome that I'm still in love with it 30 years later. I think Elite might have been the first game where you can save your game too. (But I'm not 100% sure on that)

Gaming today is in a rut like it was in 84.
 
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JeffRyan

JeffRyan
Elite: Dangerous, whatever its flaws, is the game I've been wanting to play since 1999 or 2000, when I felt a sequel to FFE was due. And it's far far better than that 2000 game would have been.
 

Insomnia

Insomnia
digitalscream said:
You've completely misunderstood. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that you fundamentally missed the point.

They managed to build an entire game and galaxy (via procedural generation) so that it fit into less than 32KB, which was all that was available on the BBC B at the time. That's less than the size of the average email, for context.

The thing is, Elite: Dangerous is the game they would have built in 1984, had the technology been available. Rather than thinking of Elite: Dangerous as a continuation of Elite #84, you should be thinking of Elite '84 as an approximation and rough outline of Elite: Dangerous.
Click to expand...

This is why I started this thread.
I was hoping that ED wasn't a remake of a 30 year old space game.
And while I do appreciate FDEVs remarkable tech work on the galaxy, I can't really play a game and care too much about the technology behind it. It has to be a game in the all that tech too...

-------------

No, maybe the game isn't for me in the end.
Believe me that I asked around before I bought it 5 months ago. I even got hold of the old combat training demo, which I played for many days before finally decided I'll give it a go.


Edit: You can't really argue that ED is far more complex than ELITE. It HAS to be.
 
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EdzUp

EdzUp
Tbh I wouldn't have said its the game they wanted to make in 84 unless they get Ian Bells input on it and I'm sure he would be very vocal on it.
 
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