1984 Elite vs 2014 Elite

[Tiamat]

I see tons of comments from people claiming refunds because the game simply is too 'simple' in its design.

I think some people just don't do their research before buying to be honest. Many bought into ED off the fond memories of games like Privateer, Wing Commander, Freespace and X-Wing types of games and expected to be led by the nose through an epic story-driven game with them as the central hero. Even some of those that knew it is a sandbox still expected a fully scripted story mode and were disappointed when they found there wasn't one.

The original games had no intention of being that type of game which set it apart at the time and ED follows the same path. FD had no intention of giving the average gamer what they wanted as what we would have got is another Call of Warfare Medal of Duty clone. FD wanted to continue the Elite franchise for themselves with modern graphics and if some of the general public liked it then great. Don't think for a second that FD are pandering to the general masses though as they know that ED-style gameplay isn't for all. ED is the opposite side of the Star Citizen coin.

 

[digitalscream]

Tbh I wouldn't have said its the game they wanted to make in 84 unless they get Ian Bells input on it and I'm sure he would be very vocal on it.

OK...it's the game DB wanted to make. It's the game he wanted to play.

- - - Updated - - -

I was hoping that ED wasn't a remake of a 30 year old space game.

Why should that make any difference to how good or enjoyable the game is? Some of the best games ever were written back then, and very few of the best games ever came out in the last few years.

 

[Killerhurtz]

Original elite is the only game I would ever consider giving 100%

It was epic , It total smashed the boundarys of what could be expected from a computer game.
It was 20,30,40 times better than anything that had come before.

It had adventure and jepordy and challenge.
A total compelling game.

I loved it so much I played it to elite status twice.


Frontier and First enc were great too I'd give them 95% each
Both had great graphics and awesome realistic space flight model.
Some of the game content was a little on the simplistic style.


Now we get to ED lol.

A game that wants to be epic but plays it safe all the way.

No jepordy , no exitement , no challenge.
A hand holding live die repeat console port with a dismal flight model, boring combat, and game content that is offensivelly simplistic and 20 years behind state of the art.
Yes nice graphics.

I give ED 35%.

 

[EdzUp]

+1 have some rep

 

[sbdags]

Your reactions are interesting.
It seems that there's a lot of nostalgia involved in this.
But you can't build a game on nostalgia in my opinion. It has to stand up on its own legs and not rely on some legacy.
And I won't go play an old space game from 1984. I have nothing against games giving hints to what original versions was like, I don't think you can build on it.


Please don't get me wrong though. I still love the game and I recently bought a HOTAS controller just for ED, plus I started using 3 monitors just for ED.
I wonder where the game will be 10 years from now.
I'm hoping ED to be what I always dreamed of: A space game to live in, a game to spend hours upon hours and do everything I always wanted in space.

As you never played Elite you will never understand it.

It was very far ahead of its time - no one had seen the like before. I played the original for years.

Elite Dangerous is an advanced version of the original. They have the same concepts and gameplay roots.

 

[Dr Roly]

Whatever its limitations, there's one thing ED has taken to the next level: The sense of immersion, especially engagement with your ship. The graphical realisation, sound design and attention to detail are currently unparalleled. It's the feeling of "being there," flying a real spaceship, combined with the grandeur and freedom of space, that no other game has got close to.
-
We all know ED isn't perfect. There are other games (sim and FPS) that do a great job of immersion. However nothing does it quite like ED.
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There have been a few "next level" moments in my gaming past (eg Elite, the original Falcon and Doom amongst others) My first play of ED was one of those.

 

[Cody]

Onion sauce, onion sauce!

 

[CMDR Memphis]

Elite from the 80s (I only played Elite + on the PC a bit later, but it was largely the same) was a very different beast.
Trading was much easier. There was no grinding other than for the Elite rank and for the military equipment. Income was much less, since there were not that many expensive things to buy.
I doubt Elite+ would hold my attention anymore today. Not sure about Frontier. Elite Dangerous is loads of fun, but the complexity of the multiplayer system even in Single player mode do get to me. Trading can be difficult, mostly because we expect large returns on our trading so we can progress in the game.
But flying (even without a Track Ir and the cheapest HOTAS money can buy) is a blast. Shaving of seconds on a routine run, switching over to RES hunting.

The one thing the original did "better" was that there was no need for a combat ship and a trading ship. Even fully loaded, you just engaged enemies no problem. It is currently way more realistic, but not necessarily more fun.

 

[Pendra]

I consider Frontier and First Encounters better in many aspects. They should have just fix the controls and mate with a present day GFX engine to have the game we all waited for.
Compared to those, Dangerous is a step backward.

FD failed to see how and why an MMOs work or what players expect from an MMO.
Also ignored the X series or Freelancer. Two games that managed to improve the Elite formula a lot.

The game is still afloat because of the name Elite, and mainly because of current lack of good space sims. Once the other names like Limit Theory, No man's sky or Star Citizen arrive, Elite: Dangerous will turn into a ghost town. Unless FD improves the game VASTLY.

 

[Iron Orchid]

The gameplay isn't much different to the 1984 original but it been boosted by elements from Frontier and First Encounters. First Encounters would have been an excellent game (if it wasn't full of bugs) and I hope that Elite:dangerous will end up being akin to First Encounters (without the bugs ) as that had it's moments as you followed (or didn't follow) the story and the quest for the Thargoids.
But then I'm biased as I played the BBC version, Atari STE version, PC+ version and even bought an Acorn A7000 to play the Archimedes version.

I suppose you could also say Battlefield (whatever it is now), Halo or whatever is similar to Doom 1993?

 

[Vi.king]

Sadly none as 99% of developers/publishers stick to "safe bets". Thats why we see 500 different FPS games a year, the unwashed masses and "casuals" buy those games every day.

In 1984 Acornsoft took a risk and went with Elite when every other game had a score, 3 lives and extra lives every 10,000pts. They took a risk and Elite exploded on the scene. Sadly very very few if any companies would take such a risk these days.

Elite brought totally new stuff to gaming and it was so awesome that I'm still in love with it 30 years later. I think Elite might have been the first game where you can save your game too. (But I'm not 100% sure on that)

Gaming today is in a rut like it was in 84.

Well how much did it cost back then to develop a game and how much does it cost these days. The risk/cost factor is just too big I guess for most companies to try and to something completly new that may or may not go well.


Saying that the game is simple in its Design is I think not fair, but also not completly wrong. I see this game as something that needs to grow, to evolve. Right now the gameplay might seem rather simplistic and shallow, but with every patch something more is added. In the last patches we had the community goals and the wings feature which already added a lot. I reckon the CG´s will evolve also with future patches. Next patch the Powerplay sounds really really cool. I´m just excited to see what else FD has in stores.

This kind of game is just something noone has really done in a long time. All the other space sims are already a few years old and also I believe ED and Star Citizen are the first Multiplayer ones (one could argue about EvE but i see it as a bit of a different kind of genre). So compared to let´s say the traditional MMO games like World of Warcraft we have a lot of new challenges and possibilities here that need to evolve first. Back when WoW was released the game was completly different to what modern MMO´s are nowadays.

 

[Biffa]

Can't agree or add much more to what Pendra says above only to add that it's probably too late now, so I'll stick with the fuzzy feelings I remember from back in the day and maybe install the patch and give this another go in about a year if the servers are still up.

 

[streki]

At kickstarter, I hoped for a modern version of Elite 2 Frontier....a game that I've put thousands of hours into over the years. ED has already exceeded my expectations, and I'm delighted that FD continue its development at such a pace. Complexity and diversity will only increase as the months and years roll by.

In the years since E2F, I've dabbled with every space game I could get my hands on, but nothing came close to the level of freedom that E2F offered. Other titles were all either boxed in by "jump gates" or rigidly linear in their narrative, or 3rd person only. Nothing came close to the immersion and control and freedom of the E2F expience. Until ED. Yes, we were more impressed by less back then, but ED's development hasn't ended...its barely begun.

 

[Ydiss]

Whatever its limitations, there's one thing ED has taken to the next level: The sense of immersion, especially engagement with your ship. The graphical realisation, sound design and attention to detail are currently unparalleled. It's the feeling of "being there," flying a real spaceship, combined with the grandeur and freedom of space, that no other game has got close to.
-
We all know ED isn't perfect. There are other games (sim and FPS) that do a great job of immersion. However nothing does it quite like ED.
-
There have been a few "next level" moments in my gaming past (eg Elite, the original Falcon and Doom amongst others) My first play of ED was one of those.

This sums it up nicely for me.

There isn't a game, nor has there been one for a long time, like this one. It does it differently to every game before it that sits in the same genre. It isn't a game for everyone. It isn't trying to be.

Nor was Elite.

As Power Play is introduced, the arguments that ED is shallow and simplistic may well start to lose substance. And I've no doubt that will continue to be the trend over time.

Eve was a shallow, empty shell of a game when I played it, within its first year. It didn't stay that way, by all accounts.

ED's complexity will develop over time. You either want to be on board with that or you don't. But no other game has ED's setting. For some, that is the reason we're here.

You don't have to have played Elite before to get that. The players that loved those games are no different to the players who didn't play them but would have were they the right age. It's a niche game, no doubt about it. But for a niche game, it's sold pretty well.

It has a bright future. And I can say I was here from the start. If the sheer scale of it doesn't interest you and you're the type of gamer who prefers content on a plate, there will eventually be two other space games that will probably suit you better.

 

[v01i0]

1984 Elite was something different at that time.

It was, and I think that ED is too: I've played most space-trading games there is and were, and still I could not compare any of them with ED. This stands in its own class. (The reason I've tried most of the spacegames out there was to find new Elite. Oolite was close, but it was too restricted in view of the possibilities new technology in gaming front allows).

I do think that FD could've done better with ED, but I still think that it is THE game I want to play. I was beta-backer for this, and I'm supporting SC development as well. I think DB (and Ian Bell) made me spacesim junkie with the original Elite. Bad people!11!

-v

 

[TriumphANT]

Lots of +1, "I agree" "This ^^^" in my head right now. ED is in its relative infancy. Elite, Frontier and FFE were "complete" when released. Personally I find it slightly galling that certain aspects of ED are poorer than they were in Frontier, which I played extensively right up until about 12 years ago. Most importantly is that the UI has too many disconnects, e.g. when switching to mapping or outfitting, which Frontier managed to acheive without feeling that you were "switching screens". Also there was a depth of character to certain aspects. The bronze faces. The serial numbers on the ships. Acceleration/Deceleraion factors. Missions with interesting threats and interaction. Clickable icons for stuff like "Deploy Landing Gear", "Request Docking". It was complete and fabulous, and felt a lot more realistic and end-user involving than sitting in Options scrolling doing the "what's my keybind for...?" I'm not bashing ED unnecessarily. The effort FDEV have put into getting the core game's graphics, sound and "playground" detailed and gorgeous are beyond compare. Frontier was just better as a game in some ways.

 

[EdzUp]

At kickstarter, I hoped for a modern version of Elite 2 Frontier....a game that I've put thousands of hours into over the years. ED has already exceeded my expectations, and I'm delighted that FD continue its development at such a pace. Complexity and diversity will only increase as the months and years roll by.

In the years since E2F, I've dabbled with every space game I could get my hands on, but nothing came close to the level of freedom that E2F offered. Other titles were all either boxed in by "jump gates" or rigidly linear in their narrative, or 3rd person only. Nothing came close to the immersion and control and freedom of the E2F expience. Until ED. Yes, we were more impressed by less back then, but ED's development hasn't ended...its barely begun.

did you try Star Flight 2000 ( http://www.edzup.co.uk/images/sf2000.zip ) its a old game and I am currently remaking it in Unity but its my take on what Frontier should have been for me

It was, and I think that ED is too: I've played most space-trading games there is and were, and still I could not compare any of them with ED. This stands in its own class. (The reason I've tried most of the spacegames out there was to find new Elite. Oolite was close, but it was too restricted in view of the possibilities new technology in gaming front allows).

I do think that FD could've done better with ED, but I still think that it is THE game I want to play. I was beta-backer for this, and I'm supporting SC development as well. I think DB (and Ian Bell) made me spacesim junkie with the original Elite. Bad people!11!

-v

I wish Bell and Braben were still a team I think Frontier, FFE and ED would be better for it

Lots of +1, "I agree" "This ^^^" in my head right now. ED is in its relative infancy. Elite, Frontier and FFE were "complete" when released. Personally I find it slightly galling that certain aspects of ED are poorer than they were in Frontier, which I played extensively right up until about 12 years ago. Most importantly is that the UI has too many disconnects, e.g. when switching to mapping or outfitting, which Frontier managed to acheive without feeling that you were "switching screens". Also there was a depth of character to certain aspects. The bronze faces. The serial numbers on the ships. Acceleration/Deceleraion factors. Missions with interesting threats and interaction. Clickable icons for stuff like "Deploy Landing Gear", "Request Docking". It was complete and fabulous, and felt a lot more realistic and end-user involving than sitting in Options scrolling doing the "what's my keybind for...?" I'm not bashing ED unnecessarily. The effort FDEV have put into getting the core game's graphics, sound and "playground" detailed and gorgeous are beyond compare. Frontier was just better as a game in some ways.

We wont know for sure till a couple of years time when the foundation for the game is all in there.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Sadly none as 99% of developers/publishers stick to "safe bets". Thats why we see 500 different FPS games a year, the unwashed masses and "casuals" buy those games every day.

What do you mean "different" FPS games?

[video=youtube;ezuDHfDhrP0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezuDHfDhrP0[/video]

As for the topic, Elite 1984 was a masterpiece. I didn't play the Acorn version but the Spectrum version. Most of the games were fun but simplistic platformers where you had to dodge contact baddies, pick up coins or something, and reach an exist (Ghosts & Goblins, Monty, Manic Miner), with a few driving games (Turbo Esprit was brilliant though) and even the odd FPS (Operation Wolf anyone?).

Elite was... WOW.... live in space, be a trader, a fugitive, a criminal, a bounty hunter. But be who you want to be. That was an incredible new experience at the time. Of course nowadays loads of games are doing it (in no small part due to the first Elite). The ability to choose, and not have your path prescribed for you, was first done by Elite. That the new Elite builds on that isn't a flaw at all.

 

[Hellhawk666]

Well, I've played every Elite game, in some cases the same game on different platforms, since 1984 when I was in my mid 20s (yeah, old fart) so I'd call myself something of an Elite fanboi. Elite/Frontier has always been my yardstick for space games. I've played everything I could find in this genre over the last 30 years but up until now everything else has fallen well short of the Elite standard. Freelancer had good points, the "X" series also. Mass Effect was OK for a programmed adventure yarn, and the Wing Commander games were diverting for a while, but for me nothing has ever come even close to the Elite games with the possible exception of the Evochron games. However I honestly can't say that I enjoy the older Elite games anymore - I'm not into retro gaming and they are just too crude in comparison to modern games.

The original Elite was groundbreaking. It threw away the rule book at the time and created an entirely new type of game. ED doesn't do that, it couldn't as it's a sequel of sorts. It had to tread the same path to a degree. But ED is far more complex and with the improvements set to come it will be even more so.

Very true. Elite was like nothing before and pushed the concepts of computer gaming at the time. ED is not revolutionary like that - it would be very hard to be that earth-shattering nowdays, but I think they've done a great job and in a few years it will have evolved into a modern classic.

 

[Pendra]

Don't forget the landing on planets and asteroids
or the automated mining rigs
or the used ship market
or the way how black market was handled
or the better mission content.

Frontier or FFE felt a lot more alive and they had a soul.