Cash for Credits! What does it mean to you?

[Davidtq]

If the stupid rich want to cough up 6000 quid of real world money for a ship which would take literally months of gameplay to earn then those ones probably want to demonstrate superiority over dolts who coughed up 300 quid of real world money for some advantageous equipment, who in turn want to show off to people with the 120 quid account.

Fortunately, the galaxy is big enough for those ones to show off to one another without imposing "weapons effectiveness inflation" on the rest of us. Either sending them to their own "posh toffs enclave" on the other side of the galaxy or having their reality only tenously linked to the one which we see and only if a button to opt in is ticked would be possible. Playing with bought credits could automatically shift the player default settings to share a galaxy with people in a comparable spending band.

That way, a well chosen and skillfully used purchase could go head to head against the stupid rich and toast them.

The thing is in two or three months time the hardcore players who dont buy credits will be at that level anyway, and new comers will be facing the same odds even without bought credits.

I wouldnt be surprised if on the first day there were over 1000 players already equipped with beam lasers on their cobras (from the pledges) that could take down such players by grouping up if they start causing trouble.

 

[Jack1642]

I have seen more than once something like this: Some people have time to play so the buy stuff through money earned in the game but not everybody has time so we should allow them to buy to cope with this lack of time...

common...
- what about people (A lot I suspect)that have neither a lot of time neither plenty of money... drop a tear...
- what about people with time and money... they have a big unfaire advantage.

Anyway: The game goals are: top ranking with ladders, titles... as soon as real money can help... it doesn't make sens anymore... no more mesurable goals, achievement... no more interest...

MT should be kept for pure cosmetic things... but wait ED there is an issue here as long as we can't see our avatar, ship... only later with planet landing, and walk mode...

 

[Carsten]

If there will be Cash for Credits, and I think its very likely there will be, then let FD sell it, so we can avoid the chinese farmers(to a certain degreee).

I have no problem with it being in the game, but with the planned ability to leave, and rejoin, the ALL group, I doubt it will as much a used feature than it could have been, if there was no such option.

 

[Ayo]

I just don't want to be penalised for not paying more money after buying the game and any significant expansions. By offering credits for real cash you are (in a round about way) penalising me for not buying it.

I don't think it's a really terrible thing, but it automatically sours the experience for me and I don't see why it needs to.

Edit: Also I don't want the game to turn into an advertisement for virtual products. If there is an in game real money shop, I want the option to never see it. (e.g. access to the shop is an unassuming button on the start menu)

 

[Bambi]

There's the argument going around that this service should be offered to circumvent korean sweatshops that would illegally sell credits/gold online and create a legit marketplace for it. (Just look at how much success Blizzard had with this idea!)

This is false, and akin to claiming we should sell cocaine in pharmacies to circumvent gang activity and create a legit marketplace for it.

Or that Frontier should sell cheats themselves to circumvent third party hackers and create a legit marketplace for it.

Frontier is not, will not, and cannot be responsible for the actions of these people. The game shouldn't be pay 2 win, and falsely holding Frontier responsible as an excuse to make it pay 2 win is not a good idea.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I just don't want to be penalised for not paying more money after buying the game and any significant expansions. By offering credits for real cash you are (in a round about way) penalising me for not buying it.

I don't think it's a really terrible thing, but it automatically sours the experience for me and I don't see why it needs to.

I think main thing is to understand that first:
a) it won't change your personal experience in getting things. You will still fight for your creds, and you will get some satisfaction when you will upgrade your ship modules, or ship itself;
b) people buying creds won't have this experience, and they will usually lack skills to use their limited boost they bought;

And also main fact that there will be gold farmers and people who will want to use their services. And fact that *everything* you could buy in game will available to everyone should decrease fears of misuse of MT.

 

[Joe nose]

It's worth remembering that who you interact with and how is up to you to a somewhat unusual extent in this game. And the universe is so big, you probably won't encounter most players anyway, still less discover how they 'earned' their ship.

In this context, you will not be competing with most of the player base (even if you wanted to) in a particularly meaningful way. 'Pay to win' may grate in an arena game like world of tanks, but elite is so very different in scope I don't think the phrase is applicable in the same way: in fact I don't see cash for credits being too much of an issue at all. But then I will always assume that there are people out there who are bigger, meaner and uglier than me. None of which will necessarily make them more skilled...or able to catch me

 

[Ayo]

I think main thing is to understand that first:
a) it won't change your personal experience in getting things. You will still fight for your creds, and you will get some satisfaction when you will upgrade your ship modules, or ship itself;
b) people buying creds won't have this experience, and they will usually lack skills to use their limited boost they bought;

And also main fact that there will be gold farmers and people who will want to use their services. And fact that *everything* you could buy in game will available to everyone should decrease fears of misuse of MT.

I'm not worried about other people doing better than me with less effort, I'm worried about me not doing as well as I could because I didn't spend the cash.

I've not played a game that has an option to buy yourself abilities that I haven't felt would be better if you couldn't, purely from an immersion/gameplay perspective.

Once you bring real cash into the gameplay it crosses a line that I would rather games didn't.

Edit: That isn't to say I haven't enjoyed games that have crossed that line. Planetside 2 for example is lots of fun, but because it's free it's understandable that you can buy weapons with real money. They do a very good job of avoiding the 'pay 2 win' label despite this, which is commendable but still, it sours the game when you realise you could just put £30 towards it to avoid months of playing to be able to afford the setup you really want to use.

 

[Valerius]

I agree with Ayo. Pay2Win is a no-go for me.

 

[Hellhawk666]

Although my knee-jerk reaction to any suggestion of buying in-game cash is always a resounding NO, on reflection I have to admit that it can be implemented in a viable way.

It's importance as a revenue stream can't be denied, and it is also an alternative to subscriptions which no one, including FD, wants to see in this game.

Many objections can be addressed by capping the amount of in-game credits that a player can buy, both as a total amount and per/week, and to be honest I don't think anyone else's purchase of credits will affect me much. If there is one thing we certainly have picked up from the alpha testing it is that a good pilot in a small ship can defeat a poor pilot in a more powerful ship.

The most important issue of all, however, is immersion and keeping any such "meta-transaction" well out of the game itself, and handled only through the online shop along with all other merchandising.

Just for laughs I recently fired up Star Wars The Old Republic - I was a founder member back when it was a subscription game only but I let the sub lapse some time ago so now I just have free-to-play access. It was shocking to see how much the game now constantly nags you to pay money, and how intrusive and immersion breaking it is. Almost every menu and screen shows either an icon to the ingame store or actively tells you something like "you get only one slot here as a free-to-play member, but if you subscribe you get 6!".

 

[Kawboy]

All I can say that if it turns into a "Pay to Play" game, I will abandon it, and attempt to sell my username and password to the site. After going through Blizzard's attempt to create a mini World of Warcraft with Diablo 3, I am completely soured on any thing that goes that way. The vanity items are fine with me, but when you can purchase what you are supposed to earn through gameplay it will rapidly become a credit card battler.
Using Diablo 3 as an example, it was a great D&D type game. Graphics were beautiful, game play was fun and interesting and they ruined it with the real money store. It became a credit card battle and players weren't playing the game, they were trying to get rich. I would rather see it become a subscription service than a money pit. My personal opinion is that I'll pay for the software, or I'll pay for a subscription, but I won't pay both, so I never touched WOW, and after Diablo 3, it would take a miracle to get me near another Blizzard game. Note that Blizzard lost nearly 80% of their player base in 3 months and are advertising the sequel next spring... and one of their largest propaganda points is that the entire store, both game money and real money are going away.

 

[huwthomas]

Many objections can be addressed by capping the amount of in-game credits that a player can buy, both as a total amount and per/week.

A cap seems to me to be the way to go. I don't even think there needs to be a lifetime total, just a modest maximum amount per week, set at a level that solves the "new player with tooled up ship" problem.

The important thing is that the costs of running the game are sustainably funded (so we can keep playing for many years to come!) and I'm not sure that selling cosmetic items and the profits from expansion packs will cover it.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Edit: That isn't to say I haven't enjoyed games that have crossed that line. Planetside 2 for example is lots of fun, but because it's free it's understandable that you can buy weapons with real money. They do a very good job of avoiding the 'pay 2 win' label despite this, which is commendable but still, it sours the game when you realise you could just put £30 towards it to avoid months of playing to be able to afford the setup you really want to use.

While I am not pro MT (I just played devil's advocate there), I am really interested how that sours game? I play for challenge, to get better ship, to get better at combat. Fact that I can shell out 30 - 40 USD to get Cobra really doesn't worry me. I don't care. Because it's not why I am playing. If shop is kept outside (mandatory requirement from me), and isn't actively advertised (nice yet humble ads will do, even if they done in style of the game - perfect) then it's really not a problem. In fact, don't sell them anything outright. Just sell capped creds. Make them to get ships/goods themselves. Want to get rare modified Cobra? Ohh, you will have to get it yourself.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

All I can say that if it turns into a "Pay to Play" game, I will abandon it, and attempt to sell my username and password to the site. After going through Blizzard's attempt to create a mini World of Warcraft with Diablo 3, I am completely soured on any thing that goes that way. The vanity items are fine with me, but when you can purchase what you are supposed to earn through gameplay it will rapidly become a credit card battler.
Using Diablo 3 as an example, it was a great D&D type game. Graphics were beautiful, game play was fun and interesting and they ruined it with the real money store. It became a credit card battle and players weren't playing the game, they were trying to get rich. I would rather see it become a subscription service than a money pit. My personal opinion is that I'll pay for the software, or I'll pay for a subscription, but I won't pay both, so I never touched WOW, and after Diablo 3, it would take a miracle to get me near another Blizzard game. Note that Blizzard lost nearly 80% of their player base in 3 months and are advertising the sequel next spring... and one of their largest propaganda points is that the entire store, both game money and real money are going away.

Diablo 3 was destroyed by online DRM requirement. That combined with shop made it very unpopular, because Diablo 2 was popular due of...piracy, and modding culture around it. Shop played some minor role there, also fact that Blizzard really went there and tuned game to make people actually use that shop. And all that was happening in offline single player game.

While ED is openly MP game. All FD can do is to offer credits with weekly/monthly cap. No goods. Nothing. Just creds. Make them look like some kind of investment or credit in game to not to break immersion. Make them actually get where they buy that stuff. As long as creds are only "fast forward" method, and game don't get slightly more challenging just because there's more expensive ships out there - no problem.

 

[Warbrand]

First of all, my stomach says definitly no to buying creds!

On the other Hand:

If I did not misunderstood the dev diaries, there is planned, that You have to borrow money if You are not able to pay Your ship insurance after benn shot down, and pay back by missions, etc. (Han and Jabba Plot) .... when You can just buy some creds, this option would be no option anymore.

I've got a bad feeling about this!

 

[Asp Explorer]

when Lotro turned P2W, it devastated the PvP community. Being able to buy, with real money of course, complete immunity and self healing items, skills for characters that previously needed PvP rank to acquire etc.

When the store opened, there were suddenly a lot of new characters sporting the very highest skills available - and not a single one of them knew how to use them. It was frankly embarrassing to watch.

I tried to keep playing, but the "ME ME ME!" kiddies just got too much and I gave up in disgust.

Please, please don't let that happen to Elite.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

when Lotro turned P2W, it devastated the PvP community. Being able to buy, with real money of course, complete immunity and self healing items, skills for characters that previously needed PvP rank to acquire etc.

When the store opened, there were suddenly a lot of new characters sporting the very highest skills available - and not a single one of them knew how to use them. It was frankly embarrassing to watch.

I tried to keep playing, but the "ME ME ME!" kiddies just got too much and I gave up in disgust.

Please, please don't let that happen to Elite.

Problem with this comparison is how PvP works in LOTRO (in classic MMO) and how it will work in ED. In ED PvP will have heavy consequences, it will add additional weight to attacks. In only truly anarchic systems maybe they will have free reign, and that's good enough for me, because I will know where to go to bust their heads.

Also remember LOTRO went from being sub to F2P + P2W, and in MMOs you can boost XPs with cash. ED is pay once game, it has initial cost associated with it. There's also nothing to boost in ED. Your ship maybe will be powerful but it will have limitations. But your skills will be laughable.

By the way, I have no problems with my targets crying "ME! ME!" and lining up for the kill

 

[Patrick_68000]

Pathetic and pitiful to be able to buy credits with real money. It denatures completely the game and breaks the immersion

 

[Carsten]

Pathetic and pitiful to be able to buy credits with real money. It denatures completely the game and breaks the immersion

While this May be true, its going to happen one Way or another.

IMHO its better for FD to get the Income than someone else. Running an online game isnt cheap, servers, electricity, 24/7 ppl on Call incase servers run into problems, patching the game ect. Ect.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Pathetic and pitiful to be able to buy credits with real money. It denatures completely the game and breaks the immersion

Only Sith deals with absolutes.....errrr....wrong universe

I can agree with first your sentence. I won't fully agree with second one. If they sell only creds, it doesn't break immersion in any way. It all can be explained away, as a loan or credit line with limits in Lave Bank or something (limit would be monthly/weekly cap for example). While you and I would see buying creds pathetic and pitiful, I really wouldn't judge players doing this before knowing reasons why.

And as Carsten pointed out, it will happen one way or another. If gold farmers will do it, it will break immersion heavily, as they did in any other game.