Instancing Like This Isn't Working

I'm finding it extremely frustrating that I can't interact with a lot of people, especially when in a wing. Nor can I communicate with people whom I know are online, unless I friend them. This method of instancing isn't working. Moreover, there's no need for it. There are billions of stars in the galaxy. The instances should be created by star system, or clusters of star systems. Start people out in different star systems, and they won't conglomerate in one; and if a system becomes too busy, people will leave. Adopt the Eve model. We should all be playing in the same galaxy.

Dweezle
 
Yeah, everything is getting laggy as hell when there's 20 players or so in single instance, so let's add more :D Welcome to P2P instancing, where your computer would be in big trouble if there was no player number limitation.
 
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Yeah, everything is getting laggy as hell when there's 20 players or so in single instance, so let's add more :D Welcome to P2P instancing, where your computer would be in big trouble if there was no player number limitation.

Then find a system with fewer people. There's plenty of galaxy for everyone.

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Yeah, everything is getting laggy as hell when there's 20 players or so in single instance, so let's add more :D Welcome to P2P instancing, where your computer would be in big trouble if there was no player number limitation.

Besides, I've never seen more than 8 or 9 people in an instance, and most of the time, there may be one or two. The other night, I flew in a wing with one other person and we flew through about a dozen popular star systems without seeing a single other person, including Eravate.
 
If you want to see players go to the CGs around the galaxy. There are plently there that want to see other players and kill them, talk,wing up or pirate
 
The game is massive , and has a massive amount of players in the same universe so that makes it an MMO

Hmmm, technically you're correct. However, in practice and in every other MMO I've ever played, and I've played a fair few, I've seen tens of people, hundreds of people roaming the same in game world as myself. If this game had an instance limit of 2 people, but every player was simultaneously online "sharing" the same universe, would you make the same argument? You would technically be correct, but come on, 32 players per instance? Does that mean Counter Strike is an MMO because all the CS players are online at the same time and you can play with 63 others? It's a massive game, it's online and it has multiplayer, but in reality this game is far from being an MMO in the widely recognized sense of the word.
 
Quite. The only game where there are more people in the same game world is Eve. All other games segregate players into a few thousand on completely seperate servers (and most of those instance within the servers). It is an MMO, a uniqie one too, just not like one that has gone before.

Numbers of players in a single instance does not determine whether it is a MMO or not. Massive numbers if players in a single game world do and ED beats all but one in this respect.

I am having no problems forming wings or being in the same instance as members of my wingS. No idea why though - perhaps everyone I wing with are on decent internet connections and with there av, firewall and router configured correctly?
 
Hmmm, technically you're correct. However, in practice and in every other MMO I've ever played, and I've played a fair few, I've seen tens of people, hundreds of people roaming the same in game world as myself. If this game had an instance limit of 2 people, but every player was simultaneously online "sharing" the same universe, would you make the same argument? You would technically be correct, but come on, 32 players per instance? Does that mean Counter Strike is an MMO because all the CS players are online at the same time and you can play with 63 others? It's a massive game, it's online and it has multiplayer, but in reality this game is far from being an MMO in the widely recognized sense of the word.

I see more players here in reality (given my jumping around and trading and whatnot) than I meet in a typical SWTOR game (and nobody doubts SWTOR is an MMO). And given meaningful stuff in SWTOR is in the group missions or the arenas (groups are limited to what? 8 and usually I do a group run with 2 or 3 others), wow, ED wins again.

Now quit with this ED Isn't an MMO nonsense please.
 
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I'm finding it extremely frustrating that I can't interact with a lot of people, especially when in a wing. Nor can I communicate with people whom I know are online, unless I friend them. This method of instancing isn't working. Moreover, there's no need for it. There are billions of stars in the galaxy. The instances should be created by star system, or clusters of star systems. Start people out in different star systems, and they won't conglomerate in one; and if a system becomes too busy, people will leave. Adopt the Eve model. We should all be playing in the same galaxy.

Dweezle

The "EVE model" won't work. In EVE actions are basically dicerolls that are put in a queue on the server for processing when it has time to get to it. Latency is therefore not that big of a problem and IF you still get latency issues you can choose to slow down time (timedilatation) to compensate and give the server more breathingroom. Same thing applies to every other MMO. Roll a dice and add the result to a queue on the server.

In ED actions are instantaneous. Where you aim is where you hit. There is no "queue" in the same sense to put the actions in since everything happens in real time. Slowing down time to compensate is not an option either due to how the game is played. On top of that a lot more information is sent between players due to more complex movement data and physics calculations that needs to be synced up. Similar restrictions applies to other "twitchbased" games like Star Citizen, CoD, BF, Destiny and so on...that is why many games like this have player limits around 16-32 players. There are exceptions with higher numbers (Planetside for example), but these often cut corners in regards to accuracy and physics.

Matchmaking and breaking things up in instances is therefore needed and it doesn't matter if P2P or dedicated servers are used. Dedicated servers might have some other benefits (and MUCH higher running costs), but it wouldn't solve the player max limit and suddenly let you meet hundreds of other players at the same time. Star Citizen will be using dedicated servers but still matchmaking and instances for the very same reason and they are talking about maybe a 50 theoretical player limit.

As for making the instances bigger (whole star systems) that would only result in you meeting LESS people.

Right now the matchmaking server keeps track of everyone and if several people are located in one location (let's say a station) the server will try to match as many players as possible in that area against each other. If the instance was across an entire system then people would be spread out all over the place. Maybe 6 in the Nav Beacon, 4 in supercruise, 5 in different signal sources, 10 at one of the stations, another 8 spread out across the other stations and so on...if the instance was across multiple star systems it would be even worse. And what would be the benefit of being matched against players you don't know in another star system? You can't meet or interact with them anyway.

Here is a quick sketch to show you what I mean if we for simplicity sake assume a 6 player limit per instance:

U0EJ9xgl.png
 
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Then find a system with fewer people. There's plenty of galaxy for everyone.
But frequently the action is in one particular system - i.e. Community Goals, Rares trading. This will only become more pronounced with Powerplay.

Besides, I've never seen more than 8 or 9 people in an instance, and most of the time, there may be one or two. The other night, I flew in a wing with one other person and we flew through about a dozen popular star systems without seeing a single other person, including Eravate.
Which indicates that the instancing system is effective, not that it's unnecessary.
 
Which indicates that the instancing system is effective, not that it's unnecessary.

No, it means the instancing is broken if the goal is to allow people to play with other people. If I'm flying with a friend in a wing and we can't find any other people, even after visiting twelve systems, then the point of flying together becomes mute. This game is a solo game with limited interaction with other players.

Even if you want to limit play to thirty-two other entities, then a vast improvement would be to try to maximize the number of people together up to that point. Striving to keep people in their own instance is a failure, unless it's meant to be a solo game.
 
Does that mean Counter Strike is an MMO because all the CS players are online at the same time and you can play with 63 others? It's a massive game, it's online and it has multiplayer, but in reality this game is far from being an MMO in the widely recognized sense of the word.

Does Counter Strike have a persistent shared universe? Because if not, then not an MMO, IMO, no matter how many players can interact at a time.
 
Heh... It's kind of an odd game, then. How do you win?

You win when you die ;)

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Does Counter Strike have a persistent shared universe? Because if not, then not an MMO, IMO, no matter how many players can interact at a time.

That's very true, but in spite of that counterstrike has more in common with every other MMO than ED does in that it has shared goals and groups of players working together to accomplish them. ED is, or at least it certainly was at launch when it was being billed as an "MMO", a single player game in which you can be killed by another player. Wings has changed that somewhat in that you can now be ganked by a group of other players.
 
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