The Imperial Succession

Who would you like to see on the throne?

  • Harold Duval

    Votes: 125 28.4%

  • Aisling Duval

    Votes: 46 10.5%

  • Arissa Lavigny-Duval

    Votes: 136 30.9%

  • Denton Patreus

    Votes: 46 10.5%

  • Zemina Torval

    Votes: 10 2.3%

  • Kahina Tijani Loren

    Votes: 77 17.5%
  • Total voters
    440
  • Poll closed .

Libluini

Libluini
I voted Aisling since she's militantly anti-slavery. Also if she turns out to be as naive as people think, I'll keep on supporting her until the entire goddamn empire burns down. :D
 

GlyphGryph

G
Petersen said:
That pretty much puts an end to it. Princess Arissa is the legal heir. All who support others' claims to the throne are traitors to the Empire (you guys from quivira are right, that is a fun accusation to throw around).
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Imperial Tradition dictates Harold become the Emperor, regardless of his fathers wishes. One can, of course, say that the Emperor's word overrules Imperial tradition, but it is quite another thing to claim that those who support Imperial Tradition are traitors.

Arissa has no claim to the throne - she is illegitimate, she is not the oldest child, and the only thing she is is under the thumb of Senator Blaine.

The Emperor does not like Harold Duval, this much is obvious. But this is not grounds to defy Imperial Tradition. He is the rightful heir, and the only rightful heir. The weight of Imperial History backs his claim.
 

clemdha

clemdha
I voted for sweet Aisling. Emperor will die soon, and as Harold in disherited, she will take the throne.
She will make a lot of mistakes, and be quickly overthrown, but in the meantime millions of slaves will be freed and a LOT of machinery bought. => good money on the frontiers (food for refugees and machines for the empire).
Then all the freed slaves will ask for cheap transportation through the human space to go where the work is, and i'll gladly take em on board of an ORCA. That will be the most luxurious travel of their life.
 

Petersen

P
GlyphGryph said:
Imperial Tradition dictates Harold become the Emperor, regardless of his fathers wishes. One can, of course, say that the Emperor's word overrules Imperial tradition, but it is quite another thing to claim that those who support Imperial Tradition are traitors.

Arissa has no claim to the throne - she is illegitimate, she is not the oldest child, and the only thing she is is under the thumb of Senator Blaine.

The Emperor does not like Harold Duval, this much is obvious. But this is not grounds to defy Imperial Tradition. He is the rightful heir, and the only rightful heir. The weight of Imperial History backs his claim.
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Law > Tradition. Legally, Arissa is the heir. I'm curious though, you say 'tradition', but has this circumstance ever arisen before in the Empire? Tradition is great and all, but it's really not good at dealing with new circumstances.
 

GlyphGryph

G
Petersen said:
Law > Tradition. Legally, Arissa is the heir. I'm curious though, you say 'tradition', but has this circumstance ever arisen before in the Empire? Tradition is great and all, but it's really not good at dealing with new circumstances.
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Imperial Law says nothing about the wishes of those currently in power - by Imperial Law, Harry is the heir. Of course, one could argue that the Emperor's Desires are law, but I'm not sure if this actually holds true. There is no legal precedent or method for "disowning' or "disinheriting" an heir in the Empire - only the Emperor's desire. There is no legal precedent for an Emperor choosing his heir. You are right, it has never happened before.

If we stick to the law, the law follows tradition, and says that Harold is the heir. Once the Empire has died, the new Emperor is the eldest surviving son by law. Furthermore, he is the only one with a legal claim.

Now, and here's where things become tricky, there's a difference between law de jure, and law de facto. De jure, Harold has the only legitimate claim. De facto, the current power structure supports Arissa and has disinherited Harold Duval. And Patreus, obviously, is putting his bets on having a strong enough military that he can change the law and install himself.

Legally, Arissa has no claim to the throne. None. Harold is the only candidate with a legal claim. Her only avenue for a legal claim was a marriage that never happened - if the Emperor had married her mother, then you could argue law was on her side even if tradition was not - but that is irrelevant here, because it never happened.

This succession is solely about whether Imperial Tradition and Imperial Law matter. If anyone but Harold takes the throne, they do not.

Petersen said:
The Announcement was dated December saying they could not marry for 30 days. It's now May. I assumed they were long since married, was this in error?
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The Emperor fell into a coma before the wedding could happen.
 
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Vasious

Vasious
Petersen said:
That pretty much puts an end to it. Princess Arissa is the legal heir. All who support others' claims to the throne are traitors to the Empire (you guys from quivira are right, that is a fun accusation to throw around).
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Petersen said:
Law > Tradition. Legally, Arissa is the heir. I'm curious though, you say 'tradition', but has this circumstance ever arisen before in the Empire? Tradition is great and all, but it's really not good at dealing with new circumstances.
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Petersen said:
The Announcement was dated December saying they could not marry for 30 days. It's now May. I assumed they were long since married, was this in error?
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If they had married, you'd be right., unfortunately the wedding never went ahead, why I said the Emperor should have waited before denouncing the Crown Prince.

I should point out there is a difference between a traitor and someone mistake in the interpretation of succession, and I am sure we'll all make our oaths of fealty to the new Emperor, at such a time that there is one.
 

Petersen

P
Thank you both for the education. I concede, you're correct. I didn't know about the coma preventing the wedding. Let the Game of Thrones commence.
 

aureliann

aureliann
-Harold Duval-
Pros: None, except being the firstborn of the Emperor.
Cons: Playboy, expelled from court & disinherited, no (known) political and military alliances.
&
-Aisling Duval-
Pros: Wants to get rid of slavery.
Cons: Wants to get rid of slavery, which is the backbone of the empire. Seems like a very naive teenager with a young and radical view of the world.

Arissa Lavigny-(Duval)
Pros: Was suppose to be next in line of succession, backing of Senator(s) and the general public. Seems to be politically savvy and wants to maintain the status-quo (which has worked out so far for the glorious empire).
Cons: No legitimate claim of the throne due to the Emperor falling ill and the marriage with her mother being cancelled.

Denton Patreus (Senator)
Pros: Strong personal coffers* of wealth and military power should make the Empire a force to be reckoned with for years to come should he rise to the throne.
Cons: Too quick too delve into combat, needs to use diplomacy to a greater extent (Senate chose not to support him). An Emperor is weaker without the support of the Senate (refer to the history of Ancient Sol's Roman Emperors).

Zemina Torval (Senator)
Pros: Wealth and military power should make her a very powerful contender for the Throne... should she contend. Whoever gains Torval's support should be an extremely strong candidate for the crown (she has shown interest in supporting Patreus).
Cons: Have shown no interest for the throne itself, and has no bloodline claim.

Kahina Tijani Loren
Pros: ?
Cons: ?
 
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Petersen

P
aureliann said:
Pros: Strong personal coffins of wealth and military power should make the Empire a force to be reckoned with for years to come should he rise to the throne.
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Coffins hold Corpses, Coffers hold coins. =)

Also, you should list a pro for Harold. He has the strongest claim to the throne. He'd be a terrible Emporor, but it seems that he has the legal claim. I'm a fan of the Princess, but with the Emperor failing to marry her mother, she has no claim unless Harold and Aisling are killed.
 

tooterfish

T
Why exactly would he be a terrible emperor?

In your own words please, don't start quoting biased and frankly slanderous Imperial sources.
 

aureliann

aureliann
Petersen said:
Coffins hold Corpses, Coffers hold coins. =)

Also, you should list a pro for Harold. He has the strongest claim to the throne. He'd be a terrible Emporor, but it seems that he has the legal claim. I'm a fan of the Princess, but with the Emperor failing to marry her mother, she has no claim unless Harold and Aisling are killed.
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Fixed! Thanks. The Princess' rise to the throne is entirely dependent on her supporters.

tooterfish said:
Why exactly would he be a terrible emperor?

In your own words please, don't start quoting biased and frankly slanderous Imperial sources.
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Because he has no known affiliates, allies politically and militarily. He spent his life wandering the galaxy debauching, little is known about his personality and whether or not he is fit to rule a vast empire. Is mentally stable after years of substance abuse? He has not even made a power move for the throne at all. Most of all, should we Crown a clown, other Senators who believe in a fit, popular and strong ruler will not sit still and watch their beloved Empire fall apart.
 

GlyphGryph

G
aureliann said:
Because he has no known affiliates, allies politically and militarily. He spent his life wandering the galaxy debauching, little is known about his personality and whether or not he is fit to rule a vast empire. Is mentally stable after years of substance abuse? He has not even made a power move for the throne at all. Most of all, should we Crown a clown, other Senators who believe in a fit, popular and strong ruler will not sit still and watch their beloved Empire fall apart.
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Interesting that you think this.

You say he has no known affiliates or allies, but is this true? Do you know for sure? He's currently tied for second place in the poll, with more votes than Patreus and Torval combined, so he clearly has support among members of the pilot's federation.

We actually know quite a bit about him:

He's extremely wealthy, and not just due to inheritance - he has made a great many lucrative business deals.
Aisling's mother, whom he loved, died under mysterious circumstances.
He was forced into an "institute", and he came out rather different. People said he was almost simian.
He's known to go bear-hunting with rocket launchers
He made a solo expedition into the heart of Thargoid territory
He held the important role of Imperial Councillor for Artistic Appreciation

Other news this issue concerns your friend and ours, Prince Harry of You-Know-Where who is still hard at it upsetting his father, his advisors, his political mentors and his pet gold-fish.

Rumour has it that the intrepid lad is about to mount an expedition of his own to Thargoid-land - in an Imperial Courier. Now you and I would think that if a ship designed over a century ago could get there, someone would have tried it already. Sadly, no-one has succeeded in explaining this to Our Harry. Logical thought sits quite low in the list of hereditary features - somewhere after the instinct for listening to good advice. Go ahead, Harry Boy, we'll keep our fingers crossed for you.
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Woody Malden

Woody Malden
-kahina tijani loren-
her?

zemina torval (senaturd)
pros: not a blood relative of the imperial family
cons: mega-bourgie slave factory owner with her own fleet of painite-plat composite plated death yachts who likes (gag) patreus

dogtanian patreus (senaturd)
pros: doesn't have the support of the greater imperial aristocracy, likely to destabilize the empire if he comes close to taking power
cons: also giga-wealthy and maintains his power with the help of hired fascists, likely to kill billions even without the full support of the imperial hegemonic crux

arissa explains-it-all
pros: not a legitimate heiress thanks to the national cadaver going into a coma before the paperwork could go through
cons: nobody cares about that because she's the safe choice who'll let this shambling abomination of a star nation continue eating people alive unhindered for a few more centuries before collapsing in on itself in a terrible violent bloodsplosion

aisling duval
pros: a more or less decent human being
cons: seems like a very naive teenager with a young and liberal view of the galaxy

&

---HARALD DUVAL---
Pros: A wild and crazy guy who was disinherited because he was too cool for the imperial court. Doesn't work with bloodthirsty monsters to maintain his power as far as anyone knows!
Cons: None, except for being the firstborn of the emperor.
 
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