SCBs, boosters and the "Shield Meta": Still not OK

PvP combat used to be exciting, skill-based and risky.

Now it seems that the most important skill is knowing when to activate shield cell banks, and how many your ship has fitted. Fights nowadays seem to be minutes of attrition followed by whoever loses their shields first fleeing.

Compare that to Beta, when you had canopies cracking, thrusters and weapons sparking, and one wrong move leading to your death. A true seat of the pants experience, that made me fall in love with Elite.

I struggle to recapture that feeling. I feel forced to use SCBs to be viable in PvP, and it makes combat a slow slog rather than a death-defying duel. It's making me lose in combat, and the game in general.

We've come too far from the "solid base" of combat gameplay that we once had. Big changes were added seemingly without regards to balance, most notably Shield Cell Banks but also Shield Boosters, the current state of Railguns, the pre-nerf Python, and the power of the Fer-de-Lance and the Vulture's shields.

Are the devs still testing and balancing PvP combat on an iterative basis? I doubt it, judging by the former examples.

Of course, you may disagree with me. It'd be interesting to see how the rest of the community feels.

(and please no anti-PvP trolling. Too many other PvP balance threads have been derailed by the whole Solo vs Open debate)
 
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Yeah, agreed. I'd like to see hull reinforcement also protect subsystems much better. Imagine seeing a CMDR-piloted Dropship flying towards towards you, you wouldn't know if he was an easy target, or loaded with all B equipment, hull reinforcement and armor upgrades! I'd run if had no shields!
 
If we were starting from scratch and able to use what we've learned so far when rebooting, I'd kind of like to see shields as an expensive, rare upgrade, with an in-depth armor system to compensate. As cheap as hull repairs are now, if you were able to armor your subsystems, I think no shields combat would be a lot more vicious and interesting.

It's a little late for that now, though.
 
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Id love the Armor and Hull upgrade to protect the Subsystems aswell....because as soon as your shields fall either your thrusters or the powerplant will blow only seconds after. It really annoys me that it takes people to kill the thrusters of my Conda in not even 10 seconds, leaving me not able to do anything with 90% hull left.... thats just ridiciulous considering how big and expensive that vessel actually is.

The combat now is just Shield tanking...as soon as they are gone you have to bail out or you see the insurance screen faster then you like.
 
I have to agree armor right now is a waste of money and weight without it doing anything there's no point to have it and every reason to invest in your shields.
it really bothers me how useless armor is especially with how expensive it is.
 
The shield meta is terrible, shield cells are terrible, and shield boosters have made it worse. Combat against enemies that aren't idiots isn't fun or exciting any more, just boring. Dogfights are a miserable experience. Traders have no chance to defend themselves any more and have no reason to ever actually equip weapons.

It's garbage.

Remove shield cells and make E-class shields the best shields you can equip, and maybe things will get fun again. Introduce some actual risk back to fighting in this here "Elite Dangerous"
 
Unfortunately I feel like completely reorganizing shield distribution and implementation will never be on the table, but I'd like to see an opt-in "beta" to test completely shield-free gameplay. Just a clone of the current galaxy distributed and accessed the same way as the betas but completely without shields for NPCs and players alike - just to see if making shields rare would actually be the significant improvement I think it would be.

Shields are significantly higher-tech than armor and I feel like even medium level shields should be significantly more expensive than any armor upgrades. Shield generators shouldn't come stock on any ship and if you encounter someone running anything higher than E class shields to protect against bumps while docking you should know that he's a high roller.
 
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Shield free would be a step too far, I think, but imagine E-shields only. Suddenly timing shield cells takes skill, shield boosters are much less powerful, and shields go down quicker... but also come up quicker, creating a lot of tension and give and take gameplay and real risk.
 
Shield free would be a step too far, I think, but imagine E-shields only. Suddenly timing shield cells takes skill, shield boosters are much less powerful, and shields go down quicker... but also come up quicker, creating a lot of tension and give and take gameplay and real risk.

Like I said above, ultimately I'd like shields to be present and available but only as high end upgrades and not nearly as effective as they are right now. Fully shield-free as a permanent change would be silly indeed but it'd be easier to unplug shields completely for a gameplay test than to balance an optimum redistribution immediately.
 
I agree with all, armour does not protect subsystems at all and there is no point to it because we all target the power plant do we not?
IMO SCB's and Boosters should be taken out of the game completely, the shield you have is what you have and power management should be what makes the difference, weapons should be more varied and better balanced and sub systems really need to be harder to take out. The radar could also be better and we should be able to identify what ships are in the attacking wing and which ship is the immediate threat.
And its not PVP any more its more PVW, and you can't beat a wing full of SCB's if your a lone fighter.

I wouldn't expect a lone fighter to beat a wing full of anything. I'd be impressed if a lone Cobra could defeat a wing of angry T6s.
 
If we were starting from scratch and able to use what we've learned so far when rebooting, I'd kind of like to see shields as an expensive, rare upgrade, with an in-depth armor system to compensate. As cheap as hull repairs are now, if you were able to armor your subsystems, I think no shields combat would be a lot more vicious and interesting.

It's a little late for that now, though.

32nd century

No shields

Sorry I'm already suspending disbelief on enough other topics, my disbelief suspension device is full.

I would however like to see more versatile armor and reinforcements to subsystems, also the SCB's need a nerf.
 
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LOL, maybe that was a bit too much, I did beat a sidewinder in a T6 once. but I think it makes the point that with the intro of wings pvp is not fun with the 'enhancements'. Where does it stop? wings comprising of fully dressed anacondas? when we get there flying anything else will be pointless.

Yeah - post-Wings, the game really does lend itself to winging up, though I've never had much trouble spontaneously finding people to fly with I understand not everyone wants to wing up. Still, it's a problem that's "realistic" in the sense that a gang of 4 thugs would probably make short work of one thug, and even without wing integration people used Teamspeak/Skype/Steam group chat/what have you to coordinate as best they could.

32nd century

No shields

Sorry I'm already suspending disbelief on enough other topics, my disbelief suspension device is full.

I would however like to see more versatile armor and reinforcements to subsystems.

I don't find a lack of shields that hard to believe. Certainly easier to believe than the lack of pilots and Gutamaya seats...
 
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SCB and Boosters or not - most people will still retreat when losing shields, especially when the meta still says focus PP in any case. Regardless of that people will always use any hitpoint maximization however they're called and people who don't use them have an initial disadvantage.
In Betas people don't really care about insurance and losing ships etc. so I doubt any testing fields regardless of old beta days or upcoming betas will present useful results.
 
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SCB and Boosters or not - most people will still retreat when losing shields, especially when the meta still says focus PP in any case. Regardless of that people will always use any hitpoint maximization whatever they're called and people who don't use them have an initial disadvantage.
In Betas people don't really care about insurance and losing ships etc. so I doubt any testing fields regardless of old beta days or upcoming betas will present useful results.

You're right about the beta thing. Even if combat ended up being more fun in a no-shields test, it might end up being an awful thing when tied in to actual progression.
 
Agreed, the current armor upgrades are worthless, all they do is add unnecessary weight as they do not help protect subsystems. I'd like to see subsystem damage only after a certain hull % is dropped, armor upgrades increasing the % needed to be dropped.

As long as they can fix the armor/subsystem problem, I would definitely agree with dropping the current shield power along with the scb and sb. (keep them in game but scale them down somewhat)
 
Personally I don't have a problem with shield strength or shield boosters. Shield cell banks are fine but running 12 of them I think is silly. If all they did was make it to where the fight wasn't over once shields did go down I'd be happy.
That should be where the fun begins shields are fine now armor is not.
 
Basically, they ought to be swapped around, strength-wise. Armour should be the factor in 70% of the battle, and shields in 30% of the battle (right now it *feels* more like 40/60 - but on the other hand, sometimes on NPCs the shields melt in seconds, so....).


Maybe shield boosters should boost the recharge timer (i.e. restoring from losing 'em), not strength? To make the fight more dynamic?
 
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