Trader ships that can survive Open

I'm very unhappy with the current trade ship lineup. They are slow and defenseless. Even if you add shields, they are paper thin. 4-8 Railgun hits can collapse them. That means they last for around 2-8 secs against a serious attacker. For this reason, I just skipped the shields completely on the transports. You can add them. That would reduce the cargo cap, so the ship will be closer to the cargo cap of the T-C line. That will give you +5-10 secs to live in a trade ship. Can you charge your FSD in 10 secs? If not then you will have a problem.
I assume transport pilots prefer to run and not start to Pew-Pew.
I assume the traders flies alone, without escort or other traders.
NPCs do not pose a real threat never. So this is for Open play.
As pointed out, the best defense against interdiction is to avoid the interdiction to happen. If you are pro in that, you can fly a tinfoil Zeppelin and survive.

Most attack ships have max speed around 380 or less. Speed optimized Clipper or Viper can fly in the 400-420 region. Speed optimized Cobra can do around 440, but they are pretty rare. I'm talking about CMDRs, of course.

Some alpha dmg values vs 4 shield pips. Double if you have only 2 pips at shields.
Vulture, 2 beams: 92.5 in 3.6 secs (0 pips at weps)
Cobra, 2 Med Rails, 2 light Burst : 82.7 in 3.12 secs.
FDL: Plasma, 2 med autocannons, 2 med rails: 147 in 4.59 secs
Clipper: 2 beams, 2 rails: 134 in 3.1 secs
Sidey 2 rails: 54 in 4.7 secs.
After that, things start to overheat and energy will be drained. The sustained damage is lower than this.

The trader ship designs are there for an honest price/cargo/speed COMPARISON only.

Let me introduce you the the T-C line.

1st Tier, starter: Hauler vs T-Viper
Hauler: 250k Cr, Cargo: 22t, Range: 8.9, Top speed loaded: 335
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=60V,,2-3m3I3m2C1k2C3c,05U05U03w02M
T-Viper: 245k Cr, Cargo: 22t, Range: 8.1, Top speed loaded: 401
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=60M,,2-3m5A5K3m5A5K3c,05U05U03w02M
With +500k Cr invested, the top speed is ~420.
Same cargo cap, same price, similar jump range. In the T-V you need to worry about Clippers, Vipers and Cobras. With A drive, only Cobras can catch you. So you are pretty safe with your cargo even in open.

2nd Tier, light: T6 vs T-Cobra
T6: 3.0m Cr, Cargo: 112t, Range: 10.8, Top speed loaded: 372
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=60W,,2-3m6Q6u3m4s3m3c,08c08c07207205U03w03w
T-Cobra: 2.2m Cr, Cargo: 60t, Range: 11.7, Top speed loaded: 442
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=602,,2-3m6Q6u5K4s5K3c,07207207203w03w03w
T-C is cheaper with greater jump range. It carries around half load, but you are practically invincible because you can get out of harm's way faster than your attacker can deploy hardpoints.

3rd Tier, medium: T7 vs T-Clipper
T7: 23.4m Cr, Cargo: 232t, Range: 9.5, Top speed loaded: 308
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=60X,,2-5K7_8S6u4s5K5A,0AA0AA08c08c07207203w03w
T-Clipper: 28.3m Cr, Cargo: 184t, Range: 9.3, Top speed loaded: 410
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=603,7My4ws4ws5QG0-80-8mpT3wo,2-6u9s8S8S9Y8S5A,0Bk7TC07207205U05U03w03w
The T-C is 5 mils more expensive and can carry 50 tons less. However, the top speed protects you from everything except Clippers and Cobras. The weapons and shields are not there to use them. It is there to look like you are a heavily armed BH. That should reduce the chance for an attack further. BHs don't carry stuff to steal. For +15m you can get an A drive and increase the speed to 421. That can protect you even from other Clippers. Your only enemy would be the Cobra.

4th Tier, heavy: T9 vs T-Conda
T9: 90m Cr, Cargo: 532t, Range: 8.5, Top speed loaded: 202
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=60Y,,2-6uBQ9s8S9Y6u6k,0DI0Bk0AA08c07207205U05U03w
T-Conda: 159m Cr, Cargo: 340t, Range: 11.1, Top speed loaded: 253
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=606,5...aA08SD8D85A,7WA0AA0AA0AA08c08c08c07207207203w
There is a considerable price difference and a 192 tons of cargo reduction. The T-Conda can't run, like the previous T- ships, but still can outpace a Vulture that tries to blast away the shields. It has to rely on the shields of 1260 MJ until it can jump away. It can last for around 90 secs against a usual CMDR attacker. Again, the weapons are not there to use them. They are there to look like you are a heavily armed BH. The A drive would increase the speed to 267 for +50mil.


These ships can actually survive engagements in Open. No need to play in the minor league of Solo or Private.
 
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Shove an A8 shield into a T9? I was playing with ED Shipyard and theoretically a T9 could be a flying block of metal with that shield plus boosters / cells.
 
Perfectly logical, but you fail to note how (in Open) Hauler pilots stop getting massacred by Vulture jockeys to be able to get to the point where they can afford a T-9.
 
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4th Tier, heavy: T9 vs T-Conda
T9: 90m Cr, Cargo: 532t, Range: 8.5, Top speed loaded: 202
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=60Y,,2-6uBQ9s8S9Y6u6k,0DI0Bk0AA08c07207205U05U03w
T-Conda: 159m Cr, Cargo: 340t, Range: 11.1, Top speed loaded: 253
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=606,5...aA08SD8D85A,7WA0AA0AA0AA08c08c08c07207207203w
There is a considerable price difference and a 192 tons of cargo reduction. The T-Conda can't run, like the previous T- ships, but still can outpace a Vulture that tries to blast away the shields. It has to rely on the shields of 1260 MJ until it can jump away. It can last for around 90 secs against a usual CMDR attacker. Again, the weapons are not there to use them. They are there to look like you are a heavily armed BH. The A drive would increase the speed to 267 for +50mil.


These ships can actually survive engagements in Open. No need to play in the minor league of Solo or Private.

What are you smoking? Those setups are awful... haven't even checked the other ships.
 
My T9 has A5 shields, 4 x A0 booster cells. I like getting interdicted as I can stop let FSD cool down that doesn't take long and jump away.
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Never lost my ship yet. Even under heavy fire touch wood.
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Also drop some chaff and mines. x2 mine pods ands x2 chaff. Yet to destroy anything with mines yet, but sure feels good using them.
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500 cargo with 18.3 jump un-laden and 12.5 fully laden.
 
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What are you smoking? Those setups are awful... haven't even checked the other ships.

Seconded... my trading Conda has 452 tons of cargo space, >20LY jumprange (full) and is still nigh invincible, with wings with at least one Anaconda in them posing the only serious threat.

OPs idea behind this is good, but most of his setups are not recommendable.
 
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If you did not admit you did not read the post, your comment would carry some value.

No matter how you spin it those loadouts suck, who would actually kit a ship out like that?... If you actually flew those ships you would understand.

You can risk no shields on a trade conda because nobody bothers to attack you, still for the paranoid this works

http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=606,m...09Y8SBaD88I,0Bk0AA0AA0AA08c08c08c7Re07207203w

Shields on a T9 are fairly pointless unless you execute the correct escape procedure. They provide you a few extra seconds during the cooldown

http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=60Y,mpX01Q0_g0_g0_g,2-A0Ba9Y8S9Y6u9s,0DI0Bk0AA7Sk07207205U05U03w

No FSD disruption on the Conda, you can go straight to SC. T9, dump chaff, boost while holding upwards thrust, jump to the next system.
 
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I've been blowing up CMDR trade ships for the last week or so with a Cobra and some Railguns. The trade ships are so large, you need only fixed weapons anyway, so chaff has little effect.

Mines? Someone tried that once. I was laughing so hard, he got away on the first interdiction. He was not so lucky during the 2nd interdiction.

Winged traders? I don't seem to find them around CGs. Also I don't run across posts that say some lunatic attacked us and blew up our entire wing of trade ships. The assumption was that the trader will fly alone and the attacker fly alone, or maybe 2 winged. Wings change a lot of dynamics so it is outside the scope.

Maybe the T9s I blasted so far had decoy shields, but they never made it out alive. They usually pop at around 60% FSD cooldown.
2 med railguns do 43 damage/sec. 20 if 4 pips at shields. This means I need to fire around 12 rounds to kill the shield of your T9. 15 secs max. You will stare the insurance screen 20 secs after the engagement started. And this is just a Cobra with 2 med hardpoints.

A Vulture with 2 fixed beams can blow that shield in 4 secs.
 
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biggest issue I see with T9 cmdrs -

1. They put pips to engines and try to run, big mistake, divert everything to shields
2. They are unaware that they can jump to another system without FSD disruption
3. They run in a straight line from the target, turn towards the attacker and boost past them, running away in a straight line will not help, the attacker will just target those huge engines.
4. Don't get interdicted in the first place, an emergency drop is a lot less costly than getting interdicted. If you keep your eye on the scanner you can spot a hostile well in advance
5. Never take the direct route from the star unless you are convinced the journey will be safe.
 
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I use a T7 currently, and I am very surprised at what it can do. I have managed to evade 7 serious interdictions, from both players and NPCs, but failed to escape from 3 other interdictions. The three times I failed to evade, the first was an NPC Python, and I managed to hold him off until police arrived by strafing under him, and then claimed the 80,000cr bounty on him. The second does not really count as holding the attacker off, because somehow, he was put into a different instance than me. No clue how that happened. The third was during a four in a row attack by CODE during the Diso CG. (Thanks for teaching me how to evade interdictions in a T7 CODE) I evaded the first 2, but was caught by the third. I then managed to outrun the Anaconda, Python, and FDL that were chasing me, got to supercruise, evaded a fourth attack, and jumped to a different system. All of this happened while I had a full hold.
 
This means you never met a homicidal maniac like myself who shoot first and keep on shooting until you are scrap. I'm fed up with the politically correct Elite: Carebear.

NPC interdiction is out of scope. NPCs don't pose any threat, no matter what you fly.

The biggest issue with the T9 is that 2xx shield strength is nothing. A Viper can have that much. Fixed size 3 beams do 30 dmg/sec. Half if 4 pips at shield. A more serious ship can pop a T9 in less than 10 secs. Would the FSD charge in that time?
 
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I understand the OPs point. It sucks to get interdicted and killed when you've got a full cargo hold. But in reality I rarely get interdicted. Just submit and make a quick decision on fight-flight. If it's flight I execute the boost-boost-jump procedure and have never lost a ship. 10 seconds is more than enough time. I don't think I've ever been interdicted by an actual player, but then again I rarely frequent the heavily player populated systems. Seeing a player is rare for me. Even back when I was moving cargo around Anlave in a T7 I never lost a ship. Shot up a few times, but never had to cash in my insurance.

I don't think we need cargo ships capable of putting up a fight against a dedicated fighter. We've got the Anaconda ( 400 tons ), the Python ( 200 tons ), the Asp ( 100 tons ) and the Cobra ( 40 tons ). That about covers the whole range. All hold up well in a fight, at the very least long enough to jump out.

If you're regularly getting jumped by players in fully outfitted Vultures I'd suggest you move your route or accept the risks ( and profits ) with that route.
 
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Biggest issue I have is with smart b"$%%^&'s.
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If I wanted advice on how I should run my ship and play the game I would have kindly asked the forum for it.

Was I talking to you directly? You know where you can stick your opinion. My observations where from in game hunting T9's and T7's, I would interdict, strip shields and then let them go. The objective was purely to understand what escape methods people are using.

I have no idea what methods you use, nor do I care..

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The biggest issue with the T9 is that 2xx shield strength is nothing. A Viper can have that much. Fixed size 3 beams do 30 dmg/sec. Half if 4 pips at shield. A more serious ship can pop a T9 in less than 10 secs. Would the FSD charge in that time?

You are correct, against a cmdr the shields on a trader T9 are still like paper, even with boosters.. They simply give you those vital extra seconds, you still take hull damage, but can escape before the power plant pops. That's only if you do everything correct
 
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I guess everyone wants to be Han Solo with a tricked out freighter that can pew pew like a fighter.

Remember all of those containers ships, tankers, cruise ships, etc... that were in the news because they were jumped by pirates? How many of them were sporting guns like a cruiser?

Freighters are soft targets. Why? Because they're designed to haul cargo from point A to point B, so they're optimized for that sole purpose. If you want a freighter with 'teeth' you pick a different hull that can support the mission. In ED that means picking a multipurpose ship like a Cobra, Asp, Python, etc...
 
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My problem is: If a trader ship is interdicted by a player out there to kill, the trader ship will be dead.
The T-C ships will survive. Speed is THE best defense.
If you are outside the attacker's fire range, you will survive. No matter how good your attacker is, or how well he is armed, or how many of them or how well you are armed or shielded. Be faster and survive. Or be slower and hope the attacker will have mercy on you.
 
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My problem is: If a trader ship is interdicted by a player out there to kill, the trader ship will be dead.
The T-C ships will survive. Speed is THE best defense.
If you are outside the attacker's fire range, you will survive. No matter how good your attacker is, or how well he is armed, or how many of them or how well you are armed or shielded. If you are faster, you survive. If you are slower, you are at the attacker's mercy.

Can't speak for the other ships, but the T9 Can't outrun anything, even using the boost FA OFF, hold vertical thrust method. That method only works against NPC's, against cmdrs you have to think outside the box.
 
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