Are Space cops too blood thirsty?

KnightHeart · May 23, 2015

im in a resource extraction site bounty hunting i find a conda , and some npcs jump in to kill this guy. The conda gets to 2% hP im excited (first conda kill) one of my multi cannons rounds hit a federation officer and i get a 30 credit bounty on my head, they stop shooting at the almost dead conda , and start to shoot my ... i blow up in seconds and loose my 3 hour work of bounty collecting. should 30 credits really be worth the npcs stop killing an wanted criminal that has a way higher bounty than me to kill me ? do you guys think that's a little broken ?

Alex Brentnall · May 23, 2015

This topic will just keep cropping up won't it...
Apparently crime and friendly fire will be changed somewhat in powerplay, not sure exactly how till then.

But remember these are the same guys that blow you up over stopping too long in the mailslot so at least their message is consistent.

Aewarin Jameson · May 23, 2015

(Don't change the colour of your text - some, like me, use black background so it's hard to read)

I had a similar experience just now in a RES site - shooting an Anaconda, 2-3% health left, hit a cop by mistake but for some reason they continued shooting the Anaconda before turning on me.

The cops like me (green) so it might have something to do with that - then again I could just have been lucky.

KnightHeart · May 23, 2015

oh no these cops literaly STOPPED turned to look at me, the conda flew AWAY , and i go boom.

Aewarin Jameson · May 23, 2015

KnightHeart said:
oh no these cops literaly STOPPED turned to look at me, the conda flew AWAY , and i go boom.

I feel your pain ... I think I remember reading a post by one of the Devs to say that accidental fire is being relaxed a little (so this shouldn't happen as often)

One thing that grinds my gears is when you shoot an NPC, even though it has 10s of ships hammering it (including ships larger than me) oh no - it has to stop defending itself and concentrate on just me

This also is being addressed in PP1.3 to make them less likely to switch so aggressively onto you.

Jackie Silver · May 23, 2015

They're not blood-thirsty enough, they let people get away with all sorts of things.

EddyRockSteady · May 23, 2015

Well, really, what did you expect after you shot a cop?

A pat on the back?

Btw - there is no such thing as accidental fire. Negligent fire, yes. Accidental? I suppose a sudden spasm in your trigger-finger causing you to fire involuntary might count as such.

Ian Skippy · May 23, 2015

KnightHeart said:
im excited [...] one of my multi cannons rounds hit a federation officer [...] they start to shoot me [...] do you guys think that's a little broken ?

Maybe they could have killed you after the conda, but other than that it is your own fault. Both for shooting at a cop (and seriously "I was excited" is not much of an excuse!) and for not cashing in your bounties in time.

Aewarin Jameson · May 23, 2015

sleutelbos said:
(and seriously "I was excited" is not much of an excuse!)

Blood Rage I think it's called ... and I used to suffer from that when competing in UT2003 Leagues

kapparomeo · May 23, 2015

I sympathise. I don't think it's unreasonable for you to be given the option to "strike your colours" - a surrender option - when you're being attacked by the police who should prioritise an arrest over a kill anyway. That would involve immediately paying an instant fine (if you don't have enough credits your ship is impounded at the nearest star port and you can't recover it until you pay the rest of the fine in another ship) but would help to ameliorate reasonable complaints like this about the punitive treatment of stray shots. To keep it balanced so pirate players still have to play with their insurance fire you wouldn't be allowed to surrender if you have destroyed non-combatant ships - murder's a capital crime - but for misdemeanours like carrying stolen cargo and damage-not-destruction it seems to even things out.

Ism · May 23, 2015

I would say that accidental fire can be described as: One of your gimbaled weapons loses lock and swings wide while you are firing on the target ship blasting a nearby NPC.
Now it become negligent when you keep firing and tick the cop off. Usually one stray shot isn't going to rile SysAuth.

Flimley · May 23, 2015

Tree are too many of them. Too many by a long shot. !

KestrelPi · May 23, 2015

EddyRockSteady said:
Well, really, what did you expect after you shot a cop?

A pat on the back?

Btw - there is no such thing as accidental fire. Negligent fire, yes. Accidental? I suppose a sudden spasm in your trigger-finger causing you to fire involuntary might count as such.

This is such bull. NPC routinely will shoot across your line of fire (in my experience friendly PCs will do this more, but NPC still do it plenty) and it is nigh on impossible to avoid. I've also had situations where I've fired off a GUIDED missile only to have a friendly NPC shoot across and get hit by the missile before it hit its intended target.

It's not always possible to avoid friendly fire by being more skilful. In fact, the first couple of weeks I played the game I had 0 friendly fire incidents, and after getting better at the game suddenly I had 3 in a single night.

It's true that there are situations more or less likely to result in a friendly fire incident but that's not the same thing as there being no such thing as friendly fire. It can happen any time, and will happen. The best you can do is try to minimise the chances

EddyRockSteady · May 23, 2015

Yeah, just about as much bull as this is:

KestrelPi said:
NPC routinely will shoot across your line of fire (in my experience friendly PCs will do this more, but NPC still do it plenty) and it is nigh on impossible to avoid.....
It's not always possible to avoid friendly fire by being more skilful. In fact, the first couple of weeks I played the game I had 0 friendly fire incidents, and after getting better at the game suddenly I had 3 in a single night.

Friendly-Fire CAN be avoided: It's called adequate Situational Awareness. Not everybody has it, obviously, leading to the moans and groans. It's simple: Look before you pull the trigger. Adequate situational awareness WILL tell you that if you pull the trigger now, chances are very good that Ship A, travelling on it's current path, WILL fly into your field of fire. That right there is then your cue NOT TO PULL THE TRIGGER.

Simple, really. Look before you act.

KestrelPi · May 24, 2015

Nobody's arguing that friendly fire can't be avoided - just that it can't be avoided 100% of the time. You can be as situationally aware as anything, but that won't necessarily acount for freak moments that sometimes just happen.

And nobody's situational awareness is 100% perfect, not even yours, so there are plenty of situations that could, technically be avoided but simply won't 100% of the time. I don't think pilots should be penalised for not having 100% perfect situational awareness (especially when so much of that can depend on having kit which allows you to view your surroundings), but there's a long way between having slightly imperfect situational awareness and being reckless.

And the recklessness goes both ways. Why is it the trigger guy's fault, why not the person who recklessly flew into your line of fire? Why don't they share any of the responsibility, eh? Seems to me that flying into someone's active firing line is even less situationally aware than having your firing line flown into.

I would describe my firing habits as overcautious in most scenarios, and I still have got caught out once or twice. Friendly fire WILL happen, is the point, and the question is about whether the current rules adequately recognise it, and it seems pretty clear that they don't.

yyy · May 24, 2015

Are Space cops too blood thirsty?

Yes much like in RL I guess.

KnightHeart · May 24, 2015

i didn't shoot at the cop, i was aiming for the conda, i have fixed multi cannons so i have to aim ahead, when i did that and shot the conda boosted out the way and the cannons hit the cop flaying by it. I was excited because this would be my first anaconda kill. I am no using it as an excuse

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Ism said:
I would say that accidental fire can be described as: One of your gimbaled weapons loses lock and swings wide while you are firing on the target ship blasting a nearby NPC.
Now it become negligent when you keep firing and tick the cop off. Usually one stray shot isn't going to rile SysAuth.

the thing now is that gimbaled stay on the target, once it dies and you continue to shoot that's being negligent, but with fixed multi canons that is accidental. And as i have learned one stray hit to a shieldles cop is enough

Wrongway Mulligan · May 25, 2015

I mentioned this in one of the other threads. The whole "drop everything else and come gunning for me for a piddly 200 cr bounty" seemed ridiculous. Immersion was breaking. But then I thought, you've been having a good time in the RES, making millions, and showing up the local Peace Officers in the deal because they take forever to take pirates out. So, yeah, they just MIGHT have a big dislike for bounty hunters - so if they ever get the chance they're going to come after you - as hard and as fast as they can.

Be aware. Boost out if you suddenly find yourself under intense fire. Sneak into the nearest space station to pay your bounty or jump to the next system to do it. 200 (300) cr is a small price to pay compared to the loss of your ship.

Vasious · May 25, 2015

Yes, it is a wonder that they change targets to you from the other wanted criminal

BUT

Why is everyone confused at the idea of Police not liking to get shot?
There are rules in place to ignore certain amount of damage already.
You exceed it and call them "Blood thirsty" for removing a loose cannon
You're suddenly a reckless civilian getting in the way and putting them at risk.

There is no such thing as an accident, just negligence.

Agarthan · May 25, 2015

Liqua said:
I feel your pain ... I think I remember reading a post by one of the Devs to say that accidental fire is being relaxed a little (so this shouldn't happen as often)

One thing that grinds my gears is when you shoot an NPC, even though it has 10s of ships hammering it (including ships larger than me) oh no - it has to stop defending itself and concentrate on just me This also is being addressed in PP1.3 to make them less likely to switch so aggressively onto you.

Haha yeah it's like "PLAYER FIRED ON ME, MUST KILL.. DESTROY.. DESTROY.."

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EddyRockSteady said:
Well, really, what did you expect after you shot a cop?

A pat on the back?

Btw - there is no such thing as accidental fire. Negligent fire, yes. Accidental? I suppose a sudden spasm in your trigger-finger causing you to fire involuntary might count as such.

Damn you should go out and tell that to every cop station in America. Tell them there is no accidental fire, only negligent fire. Do speaking engagements for them, seriously, they need it.