Ships diamondback outfitting 1.3 beta pics

[Gauntlet]

Just wait for the Imperial Cobra.

That'll be the Courier

The reason people keep banging on the fact that type 6 is a better explorer than the diamondback is because the official ingame description of the diamondback lists its "exploring prowess," and it is a complete fabrication. What exploring prowess? It's as if the ingame description of the FDL listed it as being a "capable trader," or the ingame description of the type 7 listed it as a "fearsome fighter."

It's annoying because it makes it seem like the devs themselves don't understand what makes a ship good for exploration. When Mike Evans started noticing people being unhappy he reverted back to saying that the DB "handles well" and has armor on top, which is completely irrelevant for exploration in the current game. If people are unhappy about exploration why are you talking about combat?

Nobody is arguing that the diamondback isn't a nippy little ship, but (a) that is besides the point, and (b) it's outclassed by the vulture anyways (I guess it can run away from the vulture...)

From what I remember, and I'm no Stat Jockey, it'll still have the best jump range in its class which also translates into it has good fuel efficiency ie it can make more range on efficient jump plotting.

Its weaknesses currently mean it'll need to spend longer filling up, I'd guess that's because of that heavily armoured dorsal surface that protects its smallish internal bays. And that it doesn't have enough bays to support all the equipment that a larger more dedicated ship could have, AFMUs or shield potions.

You're annoyed because its not an exploration vessel as you would explore (my words) but there are varying degrees of explorer and this is explorer light, somewhat like going to the coast for a week and exploring the scenery rather than canoeing up the amazon for a year

 

[puca]

Why is a 500k combat/explorer worse at exploration than a 40k trader/explorer?

The best jump range in the diamondback's price range is the lakon type 6.

 

[B33 ENN]

As someone who doesn't do PvP and therefore has never filled any ship to the brim with SCBs - the Diamondback is a very decent fighter. That kind of SCB spam shield tank joust PvP metagame is utter crap anyway, and I still say limit all ships to 1 SCB (before someone says "what about those 10 minute shield recharge times" - yeah, passive shield regeneration needs to scale with shield class, that is another issue). If you stay out of that metagame and then compare the Cobra with the Diamondback, the latter is the clearly, significantly better fighter. Much better than anything below it, in fact (i.e. the Eagle and Viper are still obsolete, possibly even more so than before because in addition to all those Vulture pilots, you now have the future Vulture pilots that go directly to the Diamondback.)

I don't know much about SCB as I've never equipped one, as of yet. However, from the look of this Diamondback, I can say that when I get my hands on it, every Eagle, Viper and Cobra in a RES will be the guests at a turkey shoot.

Personally, as an opinion, I'm susprised they made this Diamondback so small. I thought it was going to be the size of an Asp, but sort of a lighter gunship alternative to that, which is a very defensible trader/explorer primarily in its bulky form.

The Sidewinder, Eagle, and Viper, being rendered obsolete "starter ships" by this Diamondback and Courier is a mistake in my opinion. It's a waste of resources creating them to make them useless cheap fodder so quickly. I'll be keeping my Viper as a hangar queen for nostalgia, but who apart from NPCs is really going to fly one long term against these new choices?

The Cobra, at least, still holds its own as a multi-role because neither this nor the Courier have the flexibility of internal compartments that does, both being light tactical combat craft, but these will beat it in combat due to their hardpoint placement.

There's a strange strategy going on at Frontier.

If they wanted to improve choice at the lower level, what I would have done is made new versions of the Viper and Cobra, more geared to combat, with more hardpoints and utility mounts, better visibility, and upgraded power systems, at the expense of internal compartment space.

That would instantly give you more ship choice with less development effort because they can modify the existing 3D models rather create a clean sheet design; and also without making the other standard variants completely obsolete, because they'd function as more adabptable multi-rolers.

Then, this Diamondback and Courier could have been larger to fill out the Asp/Vulture area of ship choice. Anyway, just musing...

 

[Gauntlet]

Why is a 500k combat/explorer worse at exploration than a 40k trader/explorer?

The best jump range in the diamondback's price range is the lakon type 6.

And it makes a great little explorer, no argument there, but its not in the DBs class as I see it - the inexpensive combat class

and its worse because it has to carry 4 guns and armour to be combat capable

How does the type 6 fair filled with cargo? (genuine question) An empty white van usually has a pretty good power to weight ratio

 

[puca]

And it makes a great little explorer, no argument there, but its not in the DBs class as I see it - the inexpensive combat class

and its worse because it has to carry 4 guns and armour to be combat capable

How does the type 6 fair filled with cargo? (genuine question) An empty white van usually has a pretty good power to weight ratio

Why should combat/explorers be worse than an order of magnitude cheaper trader/explorers?

A fully loaded type 6 has the jump range of about 19 ly. But this is only relevant to traders, not explorers.

 

[Ziljan]

and its worse because it has to carry 4 guns and armour to be combat capable

Hull armor doesn't make you "combat capable". It just means you might survive if you are lose. Shields and weapons are what a ship a combat ship.

 

[Gauntlet]

Why should combat/explorers be worse than an order of magnitude cheaper trader/explorers?

A fully loaded type 6 has the jump range of about 19 ly. But this is only relevant to traders, not explorers.

So a loaded DB is better than a loaded type 6 and can fight when it gets there? But you pay through the nose for the ability to be able to fight when you do get there, sounds about right to me possible tweaks not withstanding

Combat specialist ships always have poorer range than a similar non specialist, thats their weakness, think viper or FDL. This ship gives you a little of both without the self assurance of an Asp's AFMU for a premium on cost (relatively speaking)

Hull armor doesn't make you "combat capable". It just means you might survive if you are lose. Shields and weapons are what a ship a combat ship.

That's more a weakness of how armour mechanics currently protect you or not, but that aside, agility, speed and 4 hardpoints in a very tight config certainly help. Currently shields are definitely better than armour especially with SCBs and the ability to negate armour by targeting the PP but Mike did mention that from the top the DBs armour protects its internals so I think there is more to the ships than raw stats.

 

[puca]

So a loaded DB is better than a loaded type 6 and can fight when it gets there? But you pay through the nose for the ability to be able to fight when you do get there, sounds about right to me possible tweaks not withstanding

???. A DB cannot be "loaded" it has no cargo room. A full combat kit DB is about 20 ly, so a bit better. So a "loaded" DB barely beats a ship carrying 112 T of cargo. That's pretty pathetic.

But this is leaving aside the fact that you are comparing two ships that have completely different purposes. It's like comparing an FDL to a type 9. The things that are relevant for the trader is how far it can jump loaded, and how much cargo room it has. The things that are relevant for a combat ship is how well it performs in combat -- jump range is nice, but merely a bonus. Typically full kit combat ships are 13-18 ly jump range. The DB is a bit better, but it's a combat lightweight. Any combat ship vulture and up will kill it.

If we are comparing a type 6 to a DB for exploration then the type 6, despite being a pure trader ship and not an explorer, leaves DB completely in the dust. Your notion of balance is completely confused. At this point you are just desperately grasping for an argument, any argument at all, for the DB being ok. So let me save you the trouble.

The DB is a perfectly fine combat ship in the cobra/viper weight class, with a better jump range. It is an awful explorer that is handily outdone by a 40k ship or a pure trader. This is not opinion, this is just based on stats. That's stupid, and should change. The end. Find something better to argue about on the internet.

 

[Nerdicus]

this ship should cost 140-170k not more, cause you have the cobra at 235k who is faster with a lot more internals, a lot less weight punishment, and everything else almost the same

OR if it's gonna stay at 500k, the DB needs another internal size 4 and the last internal size 2 divided into two size 1

it's a good ship, but nowhere as good as a cobra for now

After flying the DB for a bit now, I agree with this statement. Don't get me wrong, she's a great ship, but she has two critical weaknesses in only having four module slots and a size 3 power coupling. Four weapons slots make any machine a hungry beast, but the Cobra has a big advantage in her class 4 shield, which she can tank to great effectiveness given her multiple module slots. Unfortunately the DB has neither. It would have a fighting chance with a class 4 coupling, as she could refresh her shield at a higher rate, and buffed with the additional utility slots, that would make her a match for the Cobra. But as she stands now, a tanked Cobra in PVP would own this lovely little ship.

 

[Leoben Capa]

I didn't even think about how small the power distributor is. I guess two beam lasers and two rail guns won't be such a good idea after all.

 

[Gauntlet]

???. A DB cannot be "loaded" it has no cargo room. A full combat kit DB is about 20 ly, so a bit better. So a "loaded" DB barely beats a ship carrying 112 T of cargo. That's pretty pathetic.

Its pretty obvious what was meant here - "loaded with weapons or loaded with cargo each to their own function"

But this is leaving aside the fact that you are comparing two ships that have completely different purposes. It's like comparing an FDL to a type 9. The things that are relevant for the trader is how far it can jump loaded, and how much cargo room it has. The things that are relevant for a combat ship is how well it performs in combat -- jump range is nice, but merely a bonus. Typically full kit combat ships are 13-18 ly jump range. The DB is a bit better, but it's a combat lightweight. Any combat ship vulture and up will kill it.

I didn't start the comparison
The things that are relevant to a Combat Explorer are having range and firepower which it does, in its class
Any combat ship Vulture and up will kill almost anything in its class, depending on the pilots ofc

If we are comparing a type 6 to a DB for exploration then the type 6, despite being a pure trader ship and not an explorer, leaves DB completely in the dust. Your notion of balance is completely confused. At this point you are just desperately grasping for an argument, any argument at all, for the DB being ok. So let me save you the trouble.

Nope, not grasping, it is ok in its class, could be better, and maybe it will be tweaked

The DB is a perfectly fine combat ship in the cobra/viper weight class, with a better jump range. It is an awful explorer. The end.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the explorer tag, as you say the 6 makes an excellent explorer, I'd never want to circumnavigate the milky way in a DB but I'd be quite happy to travel out a few klys and chance a thargoid encounter, in this instance its a combat ship with exploration leanings - for its class

I think the biggest disappointment for many is they were hoping the DB would be in the Asp/Cipper realm or a Vulture with range well maybe that'll come, if that's what your after the DB isn't it

 

[Rex Black]

I have flown it quite a bit over the last few days, it has its faults but I like it. I will be using it for a role that it is perfectly suited; Hunting the hordes of whiney entitled explorers.

'in space no one can hear your fuel scoop'

 

[puca]

I wouldn't get too hung up on the explorer tag, as you say the 6 makes an excellent explorer, I'd never want to circumnavigate the milky way in a DB but I'd be quite happy to travel out a few klys and chance a thargoid encounter, in this instance its a combat ship with exploration leanings - for its class

Well, gosh, maybe FD should remove that "explorer prowess" line in DB's official in-game description then. And not call DB an explorer ship? It's like calling a cheap minivan a luxury car, and then telling me I shouldn't get hung up on the "luxury" name. That's just false advertising.

 

[WR3ND]

I have flown it quite a bit over the last few days, it has its faults but I like it. I will be using it for a role that it is perfectly suited; Hunting the hordes of whiney entitled explorers.

'in space no one can hear your fuel scoop'

Good luck traveling anywhere near far enough with your weak fuel scoop, or lack there of.

 

[WR3ND]

...

I think the biggest disappointment for many is they were hoping the DB would be in the Asp/Cipper realm or a Vulture with range well maybe that'll come, if that's what your after the DB isn't it

Not I. I just want something that's halfway decent at being a mid-level multi-role "combat explorer," as well as really liking the design and handling of the Diamondback. It's a cool little ship that would be nice to use as a viable option to explore with, beyond novelty's sake.

 

[Rex Black]

Good luck traveling anywhere near far enough with your weak fuel scoop, or lack there of.

Good luck without your shields if I catch you.

 

[WR3ND]

Good luck without your shields if I catch you.

I'm not really much of an explorer. Might be fun to pick it up one of these days though. But either way, shallow threats on the internet, and all that.

 

[Rex Black]

I'm not really much of an explorer. Might be fun to pick it up one of these days though. But either way, shallow threats on the internet, and all that.

Not a shallow or any any other kind of of threat, just banter. Don't be so sensitive.

If you you seriously think anyone has the the time to hunt in uncharted space in the off chance of finding an explorer well...

Blimey, this forum..

 

[WR3ND]

Not a shallow or any any other kind of of threat, just banter. Don't be so sensitive.

If you you seriously think anyone has the the time to hunt in uncharted space in the off chance of finding an explorer well...

Blimey, this forum..

Fair point then. Hard to tell what someone really means or not.

Just don't pull another Sagittarius A ordeal or something like that. Not cool, bro.

 

[Gauntlet]

Well, gosh, maybe FD should remove that "explorer prowess" line in DB's official in-game description then. And not call DB an explorer ship? It's like calling a cheap minivan a luxury car, and then telling me I shouldn't get hung up on the "luxury" name. That's just false advertising.

meh, what you gonna do that's advertisers for you. A friend of mine had a japanese 4x4 called a 'Rhino' probably ironically as it was the smallest 4x4 I'd ever seen

Not I. I just want something that's halfway decent at being a mid-level multi-role "combat explorer," as well as really liking the design and handling of the Diamondback. It's a cool little ship that would be nice to use as a viable option to explore with, beyond novelty's sake.

Yeah I hear you, perhaps it just needs a little compartment tweak.