The Courier/ Diamondback compared to Vulture combat

[chiconspiracy]

Have not had a chance to try the courier out in combat yet but with this build you can see that it may give some competition to the vulture with a much lower cost to boot. I am sure in most cases the vulture will fry this thing with its class 3's but given the element of chance, the courier looks to be a bit of a mini beast in my opinion.

here's a build i did for example
http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_courier/24A3A3A1D3A2D3C1a1a260404000m584027272725

That concerns me a bit. My vulture has A5 shields AND A5 thrusters and can hit a higher boost speed (a comfortable 390+) than your courier. The fact that it's not nearly as maneuverable (at least according to listed stats) is concerning too.

Why the blazes did they make the courier so slow? Another thing that would make smaller fighters more relevant would be to give the viper the turning ability of the vulture...

 

[Morbad]

Why the blazes did they make the courier so slow?

They didn't. Hun7er did with his inane setup.

A combat Courier can easily keep up with a Viper if you don't try to make it as heavy as humanly possible.

 

[Minoo Minou]

My problem with the Vulture is that it bores the heck out of me. Can't really put a pin on why, I really loved it and extolled its virtues, at first. Maybe it is the ubiquitous two laser loadouts, the slow top speed, or just the general feel of it but I can't help but finding the Diamondback and Courier as much more FUN to fly and fight. My damage outputs are a little less but I don't have to worry much about power and I know they are harder to hit, being smaller and of slimmer profiles (though I need a dark paint for the Courier, the bright white makes it easier to line them up at distance).

I'm with you on that one, 2 hardpoints is boring and the ship lacks raw speed.

 

[chiconspiracy]

They didn't. Hun7er did with his inane setup.

A combat Courier can easily keep up with a Viper if you don't try to make it as heavy as humanly possible.

That's good to know. How is its agility? The viper still has that unbelievably terrible pitch rate, hopefully the courier is a bit better.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

class 1 and 2 weapons does respectively 33% and 66% of their original damage against big ships like Anacondas

Against the hull yes.
If the powerplant is targeted, I am nos sure..?

 

[Morbad]

That's good to know. How is its agility? The viper still has that unbelievably terrible pitch rate, hopefully the courier is a bit better.

Viper is an extremely agile ship, and if rotational rates are your only benchmark for agility, you aren't going to like the Courier.

Courier does pitch a bit faster than the Viper, has similar forward/reverse acceleration, but worse vertical/lateral acceleration. Overall, I'd consider it fairly maneuverable, though not as maneuverable as the Eagle, Vulture, Viper, or Diamondback. Moves rather like a lighter FDL, if I had to make a comparison with an existing ship.

 

[Captain_Reynolds]

Have not had a chance to try the courier out in combat yet but with this build you can see that it may give some competition to the vulture with a much lower cost to boot. I am sure in most cases the vulture will fry this thing with its class 3's but given the element of chance, the courier looks to be a bit of a mini beast in my opinion.

here's a build i did for example
http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_courier/24A3A3A1D3A2D3C1a1a260404000m584027272725

wait, why does it say the A3 shield on the Courier is stronger than the A5 on the vulture?

 

[Abulafia]

wait, why does it say the A3 shield on the Courier is stronger than the A5 on the vulture?

I've been wondering myself. If Coriolis is right, you can easily build a Courier with comparable shields to a Python.

Courier at 625 MJ with 3x0A shield boosters: http://coriolis.io/outfit/imperial_courier/04A3A3A1D3A2D3C1a1a260404040n5840----
Python at 645 MJ with 3x0A shield boosters: http://coriolis.io/outfit/python/06A6A5A4D7A6D5C---1717040404-4f04-03---002h

Those shields seem pretty exceptional for a little ship that isn't even struggling with power management.

 

[damastes]

Owned a Vulture for a long time, moved up to a Python. Had an Asp for a long, long time before that. Will most certainly be buying a DB when 1.3 hits. That little beast is balls to the wall awesome.

 

[Commander Dave]

Can't compare apples and oranges.

Vulture is a combat razor blade. A double-barreled sabot to the face.
Diamondback is a long-range combat explorer. Think small Asp.
Courier is a fast courier ship. Think streamlined Cobra.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

why does it say the A3 shield on the Courier is stronger than the A5 on the vulture?

You must take into account the optimal hull mass for shield generator. If you are above, the shield loses efficiency. That's why class 4 shield is so inefficient on the Dropship where hull weights 580T (A4 = 171.07 MJ) while providing more strength on the Vulture with 230T hull mass (334.48 MJ).

 

[Armchair]

Can't compare apples and oranges.

Vulture is a combat razor blade. A double-barreled sabot to the face.
Diamondback is a long-range combat explorer. Think small Asp.
Courier is a fast courier ship. Think streamlined Cobra.

The diamondback and Imperial Courier that we have in the beta are neither of those things.

 

[Captain_Reynolds]

You must take into account the optimal hull mass for shield generator. If you are above, the shield loses efficiency. That's why class 4 shield is so inefficient on the Dropship where hull weights 580T (A4 = 171.07 MJ) while providing more strength on the Vulture with 230T hull mass (334.48 MJ).

Still that's wild how strong they are comparatively. Not even the 51 million A7 shield on the Clipper is that strong. Doesn't seem right to me.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Still that's wild how strong they are comparatively. Not even the 51 million A7 shield on the Clipper is that strong. Doesn't seem right to me.

Well, as I explained, the Clipper is a huge ship that weights more than the Courrier, so you need a huge shield generator.
Now it's true that Viper and Courrier both have similar weight, but an A3 shield gives very different result...let's say that the engineers did a better job at optimizing the shield on the latter rather than talking about a gameplay oriented choice from FD

 

[Morbad]

A3 shields on a Courier are not stronger than A5 shields on a Vulture. Courier has very strong shields for it's size, but not quite Vulture strength.

The 1.3 Beta lists actual shield strength of the current config in your shipyard. An A3 Courier is 340 shield, an A5 Vulture is 389. This is with no boosters, the gap stays proportionally the same with boosters.

The current online build tools available also reflect this, but the Courier build Captain_Reynolds is referring to has two A boosters as well (40% bonus to shield strength).

Still that's wild how strong they are comparatively. Not even the 51 million A7 shield on the Clipper is that strong. Doesn't seem right to me.

Each ship has it's own shield emitters and strength that is influenced by the shield module, but the module is not necissarily the prime factor.

The Clipper's shields protect more than ten times the volume of the Courier's shields.

Now it's true that Viper and Courrier both have similar weight, but an A3 shield gives very different result...let's say that the engineers did a better job at optimizing the shield on the latter rather than talking about a gameplay oriented choice from FD

Courier is actually a fair bit smaller than the Viper, 35 vs. 60 ton hull mass. Anyway, it's perfectly reasonable to expect that the current incarnation of the Courier has superior emitters as well.

 

[Captain_Reynolds]

A3 shields on a Courier are not stronger than A5 shields on a Vulture. Courier has very strong shields for it's size, but not quite Vulture strength.

The 1.3 Beta lists actual shield strength of the current config in your shipyard. An A3 Courier is 340 shield, an A5 Vulture is 389. This is with no boosters, the gap stays proportionally the same with boosters.

The current online build tools available also reflect this, but the Courier build Captain_Reynolds is referring to has two A boosters as well (40% bonus to shield strength).



Each ship has it's own shield emitters and strength that is influenced by the shield module, but the module is not necissarily the prime factor.

The Clipper's shields protect more than ten times the volume of the Courier's shields.



Courier is actually a fair bit smaller than the Viper, 35 vs. 60 ton hull mass. Anyway, it's perfectly reasonable to expect that the current incarnation of the Courier has superior emitters as well.

Under the Coriolis website it lists the Couriers' A3 shield at 391mj and that's without the shield boosters

 

[Morbad]

Under the Coriolis website it lists the Couriers' A3 shield at 391mj and that's without the shield boosters

Hmm, so it does.

It's wrong.

 

[fergal]

Thanks everyone, I have a better idea about them now. Looks like I'll be keeping the Vulture for bounty hunting and might use the Courier for a dedicated mission ship. What's the maximum storage on it anyone know?

It doesn't matter, probably around 30T.
The courier is so light that any extra mass cripples its speed and jump range. Using it as a transport ship for more than 1 or 2T is a waste.

 

[Rall]

Still that's wild how strong they are comparatively. Not even the 51 million A7 shield on the Clipper is that strong. Doesn't seem right to me.

It's correct, there's also a base shield strength modifier. This is why even though the Clipper and Anaconda share the same 400T Hull Mass and 7E internal the Anaconda shields are vastly stronger.

FYI, the Couriers max shields with A3 and 4 boosters is 612 from memory, the Clippers with A7 and 4 boosters is 550.

 

[Captain_Reynolds]

I just heard the Vulture was getting a buff in 1.3 is this true? Stronger base shields?