Ive come to a realislation about combat.... there is no risk

[CATPAIN KIRK]

If you can aim yourself, and if you have paid attention to where the subsystems are, they can be taken out rather quickly without even having the ship targeted at all.

I'm a lousy shot but exclusively use fixed weapons (mostly rail/pulse combinations) and don't have issues hitting them myself (I target the ship but usually don't select the PP to shoot it because fixed weapons "micro-gimballing" annoys me), but at least it would make hitting subsystems a little harder than selecting the SS and facing the targets general direction whilst holding fire.

I wouldn't regard gimbals as OP in General and personally just don't use them because the crosshairs flying around my eyes irritate me in the rift - don't have any issues with others using them.

However one of the devs stated that gimbals weren't meant to be used as SS sniping weapons during beta, but I'd say that's currently their main use. There isn't much reason to not target the PP when using gimbals if both, hull and SS targeting only require facing the targets general direction. Their SS targeting accuracy should be decreased or SS targeting should be disabled from gimbals/turrets altogether. Not saying that hitting them with fixed is hard, but at least it requires manually aligning the ship with the target.

 

[Morbad]

However one of the devs stated that gimbals weren't meant to be used as SS sniping weapons during beta, but I'd say that's currently their main use. There isn't much reason to not target the PP when using gimbals if both, hull and SS targeting only require facing the targets general direction. Their SS targeting accuracy should be decreased or SS targeting should be disabled from gimbals/turrets altogether. Not saying that hitting them with fixed is hard, but at least it requires manually aligning the ship with the target.

They have changed what gimbals and turrets can target a few times. As recently as 1.1, turrets couldn't fire at subsystems (outside of manually, with the fixed forward fire mode), but currently they can. I think I recall a time when gimbals couldn't, but I never really bothered with gimbals much until I got an FDL, which has relatively poor convergence on it's outer hardpoints.

 

[ToniB]

That's a good point. Targeting other subsystems rarely makes sense if murder is the only useful option. Having them help with the murder, but not immediately cause it, would probably be better.

power plant should still be targetable, but it needs to be MUCH MUCH more secure behind Armament.

The problem is with the % structural integrity, so when it reaches 0% the ship explodes, despite all parts being at 100%.

so when it takes longer to take out the power plant then the whole ship integrity, it doesnt have a purpose either.


thats a bad dillema for fdev imho.

 

[Kondensat]

Maybe increase the penalties of the SB and SCB.
Alot more weight for the SCB and more power requirements for the SB.

With higher power requirements and added mass, the rest of the modules would have to be class 1 or 2.
The ship will regen fast for a few minutes, but it will move very slow and it won't have enough firepower to drop a passive regen.

They would still be able to easily escape, is that the issue? That people can disengage at will?

Add Stasis Webifier and FSD Disruptor.
And watch the forums

such would only hurt the pure fighters again, and buff the tanky "traders" like python and conda
as with the higher power demands with the last big patch.
it made the viper useless, even the FDL struggles with power if you run SCBs and not to mention the vulture.
all combat ships have serious power issues! the "multipurpose"ships not.
hell.....a python can tank even today 2 FDL easily with 4-6 SCB banks ready to fire and 4 A-rated shield boosters.

your changes will only increase this gap

and dont come with the agility advantage of fighters that should compensate this gap......
it does not. in no way! not if the enemy knows a bit how to fly against a more agile ship.

 

[Poseidal]

Shield Boosters should only be a set amount, not a percentage. They 'scale' up without extra power costs and/or mass currently.

I don't see the logic of the percentage increase with set power costs. It could be done if the power cost scaled (for example set depending on the shield module that's equipped, so a 20% booster uses 20% of the power that the shield module has), so better shield modules cost more, but it won't be very easy to see how much the shield booster so I still think a static value is better and an easier 'quick win'.

 

[W4rSkuLL]

Introduce the military laser I guess. That will sort things out People will pop.

 

[B33 ENN]

Introduce the military laser I guess....

I live in hope of seeing my beloved Lance & Ferman again.

 

[Poseidal]

Introduce the military laser I guess. That will sort things out People will pop.

I'm wondering what design space the Military Laser would be in. In terms of Lasers, they all fall under a scale of DPE <-> DPS, so you can sacrifice energy efficiency for more damage per second or vice versa.

 

[Fanta]

Well before it was all about who gets first hits he wins. Now it is slightly different but still it is all about who got more boosters and who got more shield cells. So ship geared for pvp always going to be stronger against any ship which is not. It is so hard to balance game properly but from other side, why I should ever expect to win against fer de lance in my clipper, Fer De Lance is clean fighting ship while clipper is luxury multipurpose ship.

If you ask me , Vulture should be strongest ship in game when we come to pvp and fighting. It is clean fighter ship. It should always be able to win against any other ship but not against other fighters. When you drive any fighter it should be all about skills not gear. When you drive multipurpose ships it should be all about skills to avoid fights, or to defend well and run.

It is really joke when I see conda full with boosters , sitting somewhere for 10 mins and taking fire from 5-6 others with no harm to it. Shield boosters at my opinion did unbalance game a lot.

 

[peter101cycle]

I think I agree with the OP - I'd rather Boosters and Shield Cells get rebalanced than removed. I think you could get away with this by only have 1 Booster per ship.

I also think they should do more about options to armour the ships over modules, with a corresponding drawback in terms of speed or something.

By completely removing Boosters and Cells, you'd have unbalanced PVP and more groaning about griefing. Having them in adds to the spread of outfits between ships.

 

[CMDR John Casey]

I agree with OP, PvP is pointless - you fight only if you want to, and the fight is merely a "let's see who has the strongest shields" game.

I've tried to fight in a Cobra or Viper (even an Eagle) against Clippers, Asps, Vultures and FDLs - it's frustrating: they have plenty of SCBs and that basically makes all your good piloting efforts useless. The games in its current state penalizes good pilots and favors the rich ones.

This is how I would change the SCB:
- No more than 1 cell per ship
- Large SCB (class > 3): only 1 recharge per SCB.
- Small SCB (class <=3): at most 3 recharges per SCB.

That will force pilots to use them only when it's really needed and compensate the lack of protection of smaller ships.

 

[Moriarte]

Yeah, I agree, one cell per ship is a good compromise. Or, make it 60 seconds "power up" time for consecutive connection/disconnection of SCB modules, so that a player cannot, technically, have an advantage of (say) 22 SCB charges while in battle, but won't have to come back to the station for a recharge every five minutes. Everybody wins.

 

[RabidRich]

Yeah, I agree, one cell per ship is a good compromise. Or, make it 60 seconds "power up" time for consecutive connection/disconnection of SCB modules, so that a player cannot, technically, have an advantage of (say) 22 SCB charges while in battle, but won't have to come back to the station for a recharge every five minutes. Everybody wins.

Yeah, This. A cooldown is a less frustrating mechanic than miniscule "ammo" count.

 

[clinton]

I agree with OP, PvP is pointless - you fight only if you want to, and the fight is merely a "let's see who has the strongest shields" game.

I've tried to fight in a Cobra or Viper (even an Eagle) against Clippers, Asps, Vultures and FDLs - it's frustrating: they have plenty of SCBs and that basically makes all your good piloting efforts useless. The games in its current state penalizes good pilots and favors the rich ones.

This is how I would change the SCB:
- No more than 1 cell per ship
- Large SCB (class > 3): only 1 recharge per SCB.
- Small SCB (class <=3): at most 3 recharges per SCB.

That will force pilots to use them only when it's really needed and compensate the lack of protection of smaller ships.

It's Elite "Dangerous". If you're flying around in a Cobra or Viper with an insurance bill of less than $20k you should be scared of FDLs, they're digging in their pocket for $2.5mil or more if they lose. If they've got more than 100 times the risk then it's reasonable that it's a bit easier for them. Indeed, at 100x the risk it should be a hell of a lot easier for them.

Elite Dangerous shouldn't be "pick up the game, kill steal a few bounties in a RES, buy a Viper and you can destroy any ship in the game". That's Elite Easy.

That being said, shield cells probably should be nerfed, but not particularly to the detriment of larger ships, who already face disproportionate insurance risks in combat as compared to their effectiveness. For starters, requiring them to stay powered to keep their charges is a good first step. Also, if they're going to be further nerfed, increasing large ship shield recharge rates (or applying damage penalties to shields) is probably also appropriate.

If you're a good pilot, you should be able to take on Clippers in a Vulture. Not a Viper. A Viper has an insurance bill 100x less than a Clipper, really, except from complete idiocy from a Clipper pilot, Vipers should never be capable of destroying clippers on their own. That's just unbalanced as compared to their price. If that makes it "unfair" if you're poor, tough , it's not Elite Easy. You should have to work your way up to take on the big boys.

 

[Kondensat]

I agree with OP, PvP is pointless - you fight only if you want to, and the fight is merely a "let's see who has the strongest shields" game.

I've tried to fight in a Cobra or Viper (even an Eagle) against Clippers, Asps, Vultures and FDLs - it's frustrating: they have plenty of SCBs and that basically makes all your good piloting efforts useless. The games in its current state penalizes good pilots and favors the rich ones.

This is how I would change the SCB:
- No more than 1 cell per ship
- Large SCB (class > 3): only 1 recharge per SCB.
- Small SCB (class <=3): at most 3 recharges per SCB.

That will force pilots to use them only when it's really needed and compensate the lack of protection of smaller ships.

lol....so under the line the small ships have the same shields as a big one?!
really?!
seriously?!

lol

 

[GlyphGryph]

Here's what I'd like to see SCBs replaced with, if the intent is to be able to survive ambushes and stall for time.

"Shield Overcharger" - The shield overcharger component gives an incredible strength boost to shields while active. The duration of time it's active depends on on the class of the module, as does the cooldown. The strength of the overcharger depends on the size of the overcharger in comparison to the size of the ship - an overcharge of the optimal size or larger makes the shield effectively invulnerable during the time it's active, but also increases the negative side effects of use and increases the cooldown.

When used, an overcharge has the following effects:
Increases damage resistance of shield, with optimal overchargers offering eliminating 90% of incoming damage.
Add significant (average 150% in total for each component) heat to the overcharger, shield generator, and power distributor components while overcharging.
Drain all power from weapons, thrust boost, and shield system for duration of overcharging (this means shields won't actually recover while overcharged)
Increases the power draw of the ship, meaning that various modules are likely to shut down unless way overpowered (it is recommended you have priorities set before using!)
FSD is allowed, but with the heat already being dumped into the system isn't going to be fun

When the overcharge ends:
Initiates a "cooldown" of 10 minutes for the overcharge unit (multiple units can be used, they each have their own cooldown)

Note: A damaged overcharged will have more limited damage reduction and may end prematurely. Cannot be used when shield are down.

Intended purpose:
This is a "emergency" survival module. It sacrifices offensive power and accepts a high likelihood of component damage in exchange for the ability to withstand incredibly amounts of damage for a short time - long enough to escape, once, although likely lightly scathed, or, more likely, to hold out long enough for wingmates or other reinforcements to arrive. It can also be used to make yourself a lower priority target, inclining enemies to target someone else while the system is running, or as a ramming tool when carefully timed.

 

[smartroad]

yes because escape pods carry a fuel scoop and an FSD right? I realise its the elite mechanism but honestly its so bad you may as well say cloning, or instant teleportation as they are all equally rubbish

Maybe the pod is so small and has an oversized FSD that its jump range is 100,000LY? Anywhere in the galaxy is within reach then. Maybe the FSD is a one use wonder, very powerful, huge jump distance, but dies on activation?

 

[ToniB]

anyone already fought npcs? did they get better? how about interdictions? Still zero risk evading possible?

 

[Zax]

I just ran into this thread after my first venture into Live Play. I've been playing ED since Beta but have always stuck to Solo mode. Until today I'd have agreed with your sig that my Vulture was pretty much unbeatable. My first encounter with a real person has somewhat dented my confidence! I got interdicted by an Elite Cmdr (Arani?) in a Fer De Lance and died before I even realised what was happening. Shields vanished in a single salvo, so no chance of using Shield Cells. Tried to run but didn't really stand a chance and it was all over in a few seconds.

No offence to the victor but this wasn't about combat skill (I'm sure he has plenty), it was simply sheer fire-power. My load-out was a Class 3 Beam Laser and a Class 3 Plasma Accelerator but I might as well have shot peas. Clearly I have much to learn!

 

[Schmack]

My problem with SCB is they use power from your ship's power plant. Why would charged cells need to use your ship's power? They are batteries after all. You're getting penalized by the cost of the cell, the cost of the reload, the cost of the internal slot (understandable) and the cost of power usage to your reactor. It doesn't make sense to me. My vehicles don't require more power if I add a second battery. They require less from the initial one. If anything, a cell bank should reduce the amount of power your plant is losing, not increase it. If the argument is that the cell bank has to remain charged, then what's the point of a reload? Why can't your ship just recharge your cell banks the way it does your shields? It's using the power.

Too many penalties requiring too much grinding, to the point where nonsensical things are being implemented just for the sake of stretching out the time in game to achieve a personal goal.