Can we increase fuel costs?

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

I wouldn't mind fuel being bumped up overall, but the reason people were complaining initially was that fuel was inexplicably more expensive in the same quantity for a bigger ship. The Clipper's refuel costs were, forgive the pun, astronomical compared to the same amount in smaller ships, even though it's seemingly the same fuel mixture.

People are getting very heated here. I just want a small bump up so I have to worry about it. People claim that it will increase grind, but what is their to grind? If you're a bounty hunter, and you're chasing a target across multiple systems, is the target worth the fuel cost? That's added depth, but people seem to think that a credits earned should ALWAYS be profit, and thus increasing fuel costs takes away their ability to get that.

Basically, this is the instant-gratification crowd. This is why we need private forums for the different backer levels.

 

[Samosa]

This is why we need private forums for the different backer levels.

Would you mind elaborating on that, please?

Are backer's opinions more important?

Is there a time at which your initial contribution "times out" and you become one of the rest of us, or is is a lifetime subscription to being better?

...Or maybe I missed the point...

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Would you mind elaborating on that, please?

Are backer's opinions more important?

Is there a time at which your initial contribution "times out" and you become one of the rest of us, or is is a lifetime subscription to being better?

...Or maybe I missed the point...

Sorry. I mean no harm to non-backers, but backer opinions tend to be a lot more constructive than the average steam users. The steam users tend to be very... naughty.

 

[Samosa]

Sorry. I mean no harm to non-backers, but backer opinions tend to be a lot more constructive than the average steam users. The steam users tend to be very... naughty.

Gotcha. I've mentioned this in posts before, but it's also summer and school's out - we should expect a dramatic increase in naughtiness.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Agreed 100%.

At the very least, fuel and repair costs should be reverted to pre-1.2 figures asap.

 

[Vandaahl]

Sorry. I mean no harm to non-backers, but backer opinions tend to be a lot more constructive than the average steam users.

You almost sound like a steam player now...

 

[Armour]

How about if the fuel at stations and outposts contains a higher proportion of those isotopes that make for more powerful reactions (perhaps allowing for slightly higher speeds and lower consumption rates), and cause less wear on your engine (saving on repair bills if they were to increase to a more logical level)? Then there would be a reason to go to fuel suppliers even if you can scoop your own.

 

[deathmagnet]

I thought I heard they were going back to pre 1.2. Is that not accurate?

 

[Pyro Steel]

If we are talking about realism as far as how much fuel each ships uses, lets take a look at Einsteins law of relativity.
Theoretically as you approach the speed of light your mass becomes infinite, meaning you would need an infinite amount of energy to move your infinite mass. The faster an object already is, the more difficult any further acceleration becomes since adding energy to the mass, you increase the mass. Removing energy from it, and you decrease the mass. Which is why you would need an infinite amount of energy. ENTER THE FSD. The fsd is breaking the laws of relativity. As you approach relativistic speeds (in this case LIGHT SPEED), your size in the direction of thrust starts to shrink and stretch out until you hit light speed. This is why in the game when you watch someone engage their FSD they shrink and stretch into a small beam of light. At this point, your mass becomes 0. That's right, a 400t Anaconda carrying 452t of cargo could rest on and egg, and the egg wouldn't even notice. Even in SC, we are still traveling faster than the speed of light, which is why we only see each others ships as orbs of light.

THIS is why the current fuel cost system works so well. Fuel consumption is dependent on the size of the FSD drive. A larg FSD requires more fuel, which is why big ships have larger fuel tanks. This, however is where the problem was in the 1.1 system. A sidewinders 2t fuel tank was, cheap to refuel. An Anaconda has a fuel tank 16X larger, however cost closer to 65X as much to fuel up. It would be like a scooter in front of you at the gas station paying $3 per gallon to fill their 2 gallon tank. Then you pull in after them and get charged $195 per gallon to fill your 32 gallon tank.

I havn't played 1.3 yet. But i will agree that current (1.2) fuel prices are super cheap. I love it don't take me wrong. But if the price of fuel goes it, even doubles across the board, you would hear no complaints from me. If they go back to the 1.1 fuel system, i'll be a bit peeved.

 

[n13L5]

Another one with either too much time on their hands to grind more credits, or with a hankering for punishment in a computer game because - it makes it more realistic and stressful...

Every time you loose an interdiction, its still not exactly cheap... 65,000 credits for interdiction damage alone, as I managed to boost away / warp off with some shields still left, before getting into any further hull damage.

For one thing, I can't understand why interdiction isn't classified as a hostile act, given that it causes a lot of damage if successful.

Anyway, I don't miss massive repair and fuel costs, just as I don't like Telcos and other corporate foam whippers nickle and diming me to death in real life.

I actually bought this game to have fun, not to have another job.

 

[deathmagnet]

If we are talking about realism as far as how much fuel each ships uses, lets take a look at Einsteins law of relativity.
Theoretically as you approach the speed of light your mass becomes infinite, meaning you would need an infinite amount of energy to move your infinite mass. The faster an object already is, the more difficult any further acceleration becomes since adding energy to the mass, you increase the mass. Removing energy from it, and you decrease the mass. Which is why you would need an infinite amount of energy. ENTER THE FSD. The fsd is breaking the laws of relativity. As you approach relativistic speeds (in this case LIGHT SPEED), your size in the direction of thrust starts to shrink and stretch out until you hit light speed. This is why in the game when you watch someone engage their FSD they shrink and stretch into a small beam of light. At this point, your mass becomes 0. That's right, a 400t Anaconda carrying 452t of cargo could rest on and egg, and the egg wouldn't even notice. Even in SC, we are still traveling faster than the speed of light, which is why we only see each others ships as orbs of light.

THIS is why the current fuel cost system works so well. Fuel consumption is dependent on the size of the FSD drive. A larg FSD requires more fuel, which is why big ships have larger fuel tanks. This, however is where the problem was in the 1.1 system. A sidewinders 2t fuel tank was, cheap to refuel. An Anaconda has a fuel tank 16X larger, however cost closer to 65X as much to fuel up. It would be like a scooter in front of you at the gas station paying $3 per gallon to fill their 2 gallon tank. Then you pull in after them and get charged $195 per gallon to fill your 32 gallon tank.

I havn't played 1.3 yet. But i will agree that current (1.2) fuel prices are super cheap. I love it don't take me wrong. But if the price of fuel goes it, even doubles across the board, you would hear no complaints from me. If they go back to the 1.1 fuel system, i'll be a bit peeved.

I agree with the fuel analogy. But regarding Einsteins Theory (not law) of Relativity. Who's to say Einstein was right? What if he is wrong and 1000 years in the future we figured it out. There is already very compelling arguments that suggest Einstein could have been wrong. The simple fact that he thought using the infinite in his calculations was not valid proves he was not without fault with theories of how the universe works. Einsteins Theory works for our world because we understand it as Einstein understood it. But what if there is more to be understood but we can't because we are not willing to question established doctrine? Remember it was a scientific fact that the universe revolved around the Earth, the Earth was flat, the Earth sat atop a giant sea turtle, it's impossible to fly, it's impossible to go to space. Those were all scientific facts at some point in human history. We like to say," Ya but they were just ignorant." Whose to say 1000 years from now they won't look back and say,"We were so ignorant back then"?

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Another one with either too much time on their hands to grind more credits, or with a hankering for punishment in a computer game because - it makes it more realistic and stressful...

Every time you loose an interdiction, its still not exactly cheap... 65,000 credits for interdiction damage alone, as I managed to boost away / warp off with some shields still left, before getting into any further hull damage.

For one thing, I can't understand why interdiction isn't classified as a hostile act, given that it causes a lot of damage if successful.

Anyway, I don't miss massive repair and fuel costs, just as I don't like Telcos and other corporate foam whippers nickle and diming me to death in real life.

I actually bought this game to have fun, not to have another job.

I don't wish for the prices to become extremely high and unrealistic as they were pre-1.2, just something to think about. And i agree that interdiction should be considered a major crime.

 

[n13L5]

If we are talking about realism as far as how much fuel each ships uses, lets take a look at Einsteins law of relativity.
Theoretically as you approach the speed of light your mass becomes infinite, meaning you would need an infinite amount of energy to move your infinite mass. The faster an object already is, the more difficult any further acceleration becomes since adding energy to the mass, you increase the mass. Removing energy from it, and you decrease the mass. Which is why you would need an infinite amount of energy. ENTER THE FSD. The fsd is breaking the laws of relativity. As you approach relativistic speeds (in this case LIGHT SPEED), your size in the direction of thrust starts to shrink and stretch out until you hit light speed. This is why in the game when you watch someone engage their FSD they shrink and stretch into a small beam of light. At this point, your mass becomes 0. That's right, a 400t Anaconda carrying 452t of cargo could rest on and egg, and the egg wouldn't even notice. Even in SC, we are still traveling faster than the speed of light, which is why we only see each others ships as orbs of light.

THIS is why the current fuel cost system works so well. Fuel consumption is dependent on the size of the FSD drive. A larg FSD requires more fuel, which is why big ships have larger fuel tanks. This, however is where the problem was in the 1.1 system. A sidewinders 2t fuel tank was, cheap to refuel. An Anaconda has a fuel tank 16X larger, however cost closer to 65X as much to fuel up. It would be like a scooter in front of you at the gas station paying $3 per gallon to fill their 2 gallon tank. Then you pull in after them and get charged $195 per gallon to fill your 32 gallon tank.

I havn't played 1.3 yet. But i will agree that current (1.2) fuel prices are super cheap. I love it don't take me wrong. But if the price of fuel goes it, even doubles across the board, you would hear no complaints from me. If they go back to the 1.1 fuel system, i'll be a bit peeved.

Props, that is one good post!

Since I was largely prevented from playing 1.1 - got stuck in a corrupted system on December 27th 2014 and FD customer support responded to my ticket on May 15th 2015 and fixed the issue on May 17th - I wasn't even aware of an uneven fuel charge for different size ships! That's crazy...

Either way, I don't see a problem with fuel being cheap, since you can also get it for free, it 'realistically' shouldn't be a precious commodity like it is nowadays on Earth.

 

[n13L5]

I don't wish for the prices to become extremely high and unrealistic as they were pre-1.2, just something to think about. And i agree that interdiction should be considered a major crime.

Ah, I see, if your thoughts are similar to Pyro Steel's I could deal with it, with only a minor grimace ;-)

I'm that much more allergic to FD raising anything, because they want to charge us 10% for every ship re-configuration, which is one of the features so far solidly on the fun side of the ledger. If they gave us the ability to store our modules in a hangar (like ships), I'd be fine, cause I'd be able to just keep the stuff for future use. But having to buy the same stuff over and over with a 10% loss each time is completely unsustainable.

Sure, we can just stop re-configuring our ships - share the FotM fittings on some website, but why should we loose something that was totally fun?

First time I set up my Vulture, I swapped so many parts back and forth for a week to squeeze most of what I wanted into the power envelope, the fitting process would have cost me the price of a second Vulture

Also, using an E2 FSD on the Vulture frees up some more power, but now, you can't jump out of system with it, requiring to swap FSD's every time you want to move it.

Sorry to be slightly off topic there, but it does figure into that whole cost of being a CMDR question...

 

[Pyro Steel]

I agree with the fuel analogy. But regarding Einsteins Theory (not law) of Relativity. Who's to say Einstein was right? What if he is wrong and 1000 years in the future we figured it out. There is already very compelling arguments that suggest Einstein could have been wrong. The simple fact that he thought using the infinite in his calculations was not valid proves he was not without fault with theories of how the universe works. Einsteins Theory works for our world because we understand it as Einstein understood it. But what if there is more to be understood but we can't because we are not willing to question established doctrine? Remember it was a scientific fact that the universe revolved around the Earth, the Earth was flat, the Earth sat atop a giant sea turtle, it's impossible to fly, it's impossible to go to space. Those were all scientific facts at some point in human history. We like to say," Ya but they were just ignorant." Whose to say 1000 years from now they won't look back and say,"We were so ignorant back then"?

Opps i did mean to say theory, my bad. And i do agree with you hardheartedly. I'm all for disproving limiting ideas to really expand on the improbable. The devs though are trying to stay as close to whats "realistic" as far as we know. All i have to say though, is that im glad they didn't go with the warp like in Star Trek. People complain to much about super cruise taking 45 seconds - a minute or two out of their lives (As long as you aren't going to Hutton orbital... ). Imagine if they had to wait hours - days to get between systems, and 15-20 minutes - hours to super cruise to the station.

 

[Jet Fusion]

@ OP

Correct, the current fuel and repair cost for full blown star ships at stations are a laugh compared to the credits you can make. It's almost 'sv_cheats = 1' + 'godmode = 1'.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Ah, I see, if your thoughts are similar to Pyro Steel's I could deal with it, with only a minor grimace ;-)

I'm that much more allergic to FD raising anything, because they want to charge us 10% for every ship re-configuration, which is one of the features so far solidly on the fun side of the ledger. If they gave us the ability to store our modules in a hangar (like ships), I'd be fine, cause I'd be able to just keep the stuff for future use. But having to buy the same stuff over and over with a 10% loss each time is completely unsustainable.

Sure, we can just stop re-configuring our ships - share the FotM fittings on some website, but why should we loose something that was totally fun?

First time I set up my Vulture, I swapped so many parts back and forth for a week to squeeze most of what I wanted into the power envelope, the fitting process would have cost me the price of a second Vulture

Also, using an E2 FSD on the Vulture frees up some more power, but now, you can't jump out of system with it, requiring to swap FSD's every time you want to move it.

Sorry to be slightly off topic there, but it does figure into that whole cost of being a CMDR question...

We don't have the 10% fee anymore.

 

[BL1P]

I started playing post 1.2, Fuel and Repair prices are so low after my first hour of play I no longer paid any attention to them.

I guess ED consider fuel and repairs to be almost free in the future because at the moment compared to Trade income or RES rewards, The fuel and repair costs are insignificant.

I would welcome an increase in fuel and repair costs.

 

[n13L5]

Opps i did mean to say theory, my bad. And i do agree with you hardheartedly. I'm all for disproving limiting ideas to really expand on the improbable. The devs though are trying to stay as close to whats "realistic" as far as we know. All i have to say though, is that im glad they didn't go with the warp like in Star Trek. People complain to much about super cruise taking 45 seconds - a minute or two out of their lives (As long as you aren't going to Hutton orbital... ). Imagine if they had to wait hours - days to get between systems, and 15-20 minutes - hours to super cruise to the station.

Ahh, yes... could you redo your fuel caluclation based on string theory then, please?

 

[n13L5]

Yeah, I can see how it's nothing but a bad news for explorers... Sadly, sacrifices are a necessity of almost any change to any system. For all the other roles however - if combined with increased fuel costs - it would add an extra layer to decision making. Spend money on the good stuff or scoop the unrefined poor quality stuff for free. Thinking of it - with the extra fuel tanks you'll be able to mount on your ship in 1.3, the hit to exploration role may not be as bad if this idea became reality.

I think the freshly scooped fuel should be better than the old stuff that's been sitting in a station's tanks like cold coffee - isotopes that aren't tired yet... just kidding, BUT:

If you you are intent on different fuels and find the development effort worth while, You could just have different quality fuel from different types of suns... That would seem to make a certain amount of sense...

And instead of just being a hit to explorers, it would add to their decision making also...

And now you'd have a reason why in some systems, the stations only offer the cheap fuel and in other systems they offer more expensive, better fuel...?