Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Dave1235]

Yea, but I'm still in the camp that we should have seperate saves but keep the same overall single simulation. What looked good on paper doesn't really sit well for me in practice. I shouldn't be able to trade up to a great combat ship and then go hunting players. Nor should I be able to rack up a big bounty get chased down and laugh as I filter the hunters out in solo. I think that I'm taking the path of least resistance along with everyone else using the modes to mitigate risk. The game is still fun either way, but those little things should be addressed for fair play.

I have been playing a long time and my best ship is an Asp (pretty much A rated), I also have a Vulture, type6 and a Hauler and I have played in all modes.

Last night (for the first time in a while) I took my type6 into open, even if I came in the Asp why would you want to stop me if I earn't some CR in solo, if I haven't fought many CMDR's I will be an easy target for them, am I ok to use open as long as I don't use "a great combat ship" an only my type6?

 

[cryon1cang3l]

I think we will drown in salty tears when they realise.

Now where did I learn such bad words, Oh yes right here lol.

I think FD were pretty sure p2p was the way they wanted to go, I guess we will know soon as their financial year ended 31/05/14 so the latest numbers will be out soon (tm).

If FD change from P2P to C/S this year, or even next year I will drop cryon1cang3l 100 tons of any metal he chooses, I would go bigger but 100 tons is what I can fit into an expendable type6.

Nah keep the metal or whatever you want to slap into your T6
Anyway i think we will see changes. Or some of us would not see it anymore cause uninstalled and ignored just like 80% of our steam library.
i just know many multiplayer games with nice and fresh gameplay that turned into "ghost games". Titanfall anyone? Evolve? And these are tripleA games with a huge hype on release, not something ED had so far. Maybe its good, maybe not, but one thing is sure - multiplayer games live only with a decent player base. Once people start to abandon games, its almost impossible to get them back (or at least very expensive, time-consuming and mostly not worth it).

I got ED only for multiplayer. I dont mind flying around solo, but only if it helps me in the multiplayer part later like get permits for systems or grind out for fighting so i dont sit there without insurance or with lower modules.

And numbers dont mean that the game design will change. If the game is popular and makes money, they will keep it in the same direction (and change it only if they want the really big consumer-market and not only space-nerds). If not - something will change, but this cant be predicted. So far i have a feeling that this game is pretty big and star citizen was a nice "help" - people who got the taste of it, but cant wait, got ED.

 

[Asp Explorer]

i just know many multiplayer games with nice and fresh gameplay that turned into "ghost games". Titanfall anyone? Evolve?

Well part of the problem there is that both Titanfall and Evolve were, urm, a bit rubbish. Fun for the first five minutes, nice concepts, but rather poor execution. I'd add Destiny to that list too.

 

[Mercy Killing]

So I am right, this entire "debate" is about the desires of some, to shoot those who are not interested in PvP.
Because those who are interested, are all ready in Open - so you're asking for now, is to force the rest of us over by messing with modes or rewards.

Some people want PvP to test their skills versus like minded players, they play Open all ready.

The rest only want to mindlessly pew pew weaker targets and will not engage in a "real" fight.
Well, I'm not sorry to say - I'm not joining in being the seal for you to club. You can seal-club without me. If you want to buy me a copy of the game, pay me an hourly rate (starting offers from £10 per hour upwards) I will consider being a seal for you to club - until then, I paid for what FD advertised, 3 modes I can freely use and the choice of who I play with.

This is....I'm.....can't speak.....

I'll just say I 100% agree with all points. Especially with those regarding open/solo play and the Player vs Player component of the game, or lack thereof. This game is going to fail in the long term if they don't add something to promote actual player interaction instead of these boring systems to "affect the universe."

See....the reason most people are picking solo/group is BECAUSE OF player interaction. It never occurs to anyone that favors PvP that the very reason their servers/instances are empty is because of THEM. Go figure.​

​

 

[Dave1235]

As a pirate, more often then not you are grateful for those traders, who still trade in open and haven't retreated cowardly into Solo Play.

I guess you didn't get the memo CMDR Hero, we don't use the "coward" word here these days, it doesn't end well, we are talking about pixels in a virtual world here, we call it a game, something most people do to have fun, not to get called a coward for a choice in how they play the game.

 

[cryon1cang3l]

Well part of the problem there is that both Titanfall and Evolve were, urm, a bit rubbish. Fun for the first five minutes, nice concepts, but rather poor execution. I'd add Destiny to that list too.

Not only that, the expectation on a tripleA game is usually higher, way higher than on something small like this without a fat publisher behind the project, pumping money into it.
But in the last years we had some games where i wanted to eat my alumic mousepad after day1.. or month1 in case of AC:U... and die horribly, still better than playing it without a boatload of hotfixes, patches and driver updates.
Evolve was at least really great on the tech side, even the alpha was so smooth, i didnt believe that something like this is possible today - only a few bugs, servers taking the load without problems after minor tweaking, no client crashes or driver problems...
And dont say that, a single well organised game mode is enough if it is good. League of Legends, DOTA2 etc work with a single small map (for the most popular, ranked mode), a lot of champions and same game mode over and over again - and people spend thousands of hours playing it. Same with Counterstrike, it doesnt get boring even if you played the map 150 times.

 

[Dave1235]

For CL yes they need to fix it at sometime...

<snip>

I don't know if they can "fix" CL, I hope they can but from what I have read the P2P might make it difficult, but I am sure they will get there.

That said "punishing or detecting" CL "should" be a bit easier (obviously reports will help FD a lot too).

Player A in solo crashes = likely ok
Player A in solo crashes often = take a look maybe
Player A in solo crashes often in combat vs no combat= Mmm look a little deeper.

Player B in open crashes often = likely ok
Player B in open crashes often when in a PVP fight but rarely otherwise = Mmm look a little deeper.

FD have called CL a cheat and I am sure they will deal with it (they did say they have banned people IIRC in a recent newsletter, although I think it will be more reactive then proactive for a while. Its not ideal but they have said they are working on it.

 

[Dave1235]

Yea there's probably better ways to address the exploitable parts of the switching mechanic. And yes, I do feel that racking up a bounty and hiding in solo is exploiting a built in mechanic. I just don't know what the best fix for those little things are. I like switching too, but I wouldn't be as extreme as to stop playing if I had seperate saves. The game is still fun.

There was mention (IIRC) that you might have to serve out your bounty in the mode that you "earn't" it.

If the modes were split I would never play open again, I would not start again.

Ps

"Yea there's probably better ways to address the exploitable parts of the switching mechanic."

We call it a "design feature"

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

I don't know if they can "fix" CL, I hope they can but from what I have read the P2P might make it difficult, but I am sure they will get there.

That said "punishing or detecting" CL "should" be a bit easier (obviously reports will help FD a lot too).

Player A in solo crashes = likely ok
Player A in solo crashes often = take a look maybe
Player A in solo crashes often in combat vs no combat= Mmm look a little deeper.

Player B in open crashes often = likely ok
Player B in open crashes often when in a PVP fight but rarely otherwise = Mmm look a little deeper.

FD have called CL a cheat and I am sure they will deal with it (they did say they have banned people IIRC in a recent newsletter, although I think it will be more reactive then proactive for a while. Its not ideal but they have said they are working on it.

I don't even think they have to do anything about combat logging in any other case other than agaisnt players. It will skew the balance a little when a player can combat log all he wants in solo with no repercussions, but the game is already pretty unbalanced. What with some people starting in better ships, others having lower insurance, and a new money printing exploit flavor of the week. The game will never be that balanced.

However, as long as players were punished for doing it against another player, id be happy. Even if the punishment was just a temp ban from open.

 

[Dave1235]

IMO the correct way to fix Solo vs Open Play is to having missions that requires form a group/wing to accomplish. why would I still want to play in solo when I can do mission like
1. taking over/destroy a station as a squadron
2. protect the capital ship while it's charging up it's main canon to blow up a rival planet

<snip>

I feel a tremor in the force Luke, oh no wrong game (just like points 1 & 2 in ED), lets leave the I am your father jokes out though please (unless they are really funny)

 

[DaveB]

Not only that, the expectation on a tripleA game is usually higher, way higher than on something small like this without a fat publisher behind the project, pumping money into it.
But in the last years we had some games where i wanted to eat my alumic mousepad after day1.. or month1 in case of AC:U... and die horribly, still better than playing it without a boatload of hotfixes, patches and driver updates.
Evolve was at least really great on the tech side, even the alpha was so smooth, i didnt believe that something like this is possible today - only a few bugs, servers taking the load without problems after minor tweaking, no client crashes or driver problems...
And dont say that, a single well organised game mode is enough if it is good. League of Legends, DOTA2 etc work with a single small map (for the most popular, ranked mode), a lot of champions and same game mode over and over again - and people spend thousands of hours playing it. Same with Counterstrike, it doesnt get boring even if you played the map 150 times.

Thing is, you're talking about games that were designed for massive and intense PvP battles there. Elite wasn't. At all. It was designed for player interaction to be - in the words of David Braben - "rare and meaningful." It was designed for PvP to be possible but not the primary focus of the game. Even playing open mode 100% of the time you'll find yourself interacting more with the background sim and NPCs than other players, even if you deliberately seek out areas where players might gather like systems with active CGs or the old worlds. If all you want out of Elite is PvP action you'll spend a lot more time looking for it than actually fighting. You want a map crowded with players trying to kill each other to earn rewards and rank that's fine - when you're in the mood for that go play counterstrike or one of the games that delivers that experience. It's not one you'll find in Elite, nor is it one that a significant portion of Elite players are looking for. If I want that kind of experience I'll go play Battlefield. I kinda suck at it but it's still fun. Elite is a HUGE map - make your Counterstrike map a 1:1 scale rendering of Europe, every city, every village, street and building and put the same thousands of players in it. You'll rack up your thousands of hours play without needing to reload once because you'll have a hard time even finding anything to shoot at. Sure, Elite has some funky instancing mechanic that means sometimes players in the same area don't see each other, but 99% of the time if you're not seeing anybody else it's because they aren't there and none of the changes you advocate will change that or deliver the kind of experience you claim to be looking for.

 

[Dave1235]

another thread to the hells pit..welcome

Wow the mods are giving us some warning of incoming! (Shush, don't talk about the mods, you might get put on the naughty step, we are on "lock down" right now). JK

Oh dear, what did the mods just do to us, lol, its not like we ever upset them, did we?

 

[Dave1235]

<sniggers>

Did you eat the half biscuit part or are you a cannibal and finished the half man part as well <shudders> "maybe Cody is looking for fresh blood too in his cupboard of death".

Note to self..... avoid Cody's cupboard (or bring biscuits)

 

[Roybe]

Welcome to Satan's Merry Go Round! May you find your way out of this pit someday!

 

[fademist]

Wow the mods are giving us some warning of incoming! (Shush, don't talk about the mods, you might get put on the naughty step, we are on "lock down" right now). JK

Oh dear, what did the mods just do to us, lol, its not like we ever upset them, did we?

no nop we didnt upset them but someday we will RULE THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dave1235]

Nah keep the metal or whatever you want to slap into your T6
Anyway i think we will see changes. Or some of us would not see it anymore cause uninstalled and ignored just like 80% of our steam library.
i just know many multiplayer games with nice and fresh gameplay that turned into "ghost games". Titanfall anyone? Evolve? And these are tripleA games with a huge hype on release, not something ED had so far. Maybe its good, maybe not, but one thing is sure - multiplayer games live only with a decent player base. Once people start to abandon games, its almost impossible to get them back (or at least very expensive, time-consuming and mostly not worth it).

I got ED only for multiplayer. I dont mind flying around solo, but only if it helps me in the multiplayer part later like get permits for systems or grind out for fighting so i dont sit there without insurance or with lower modules.

And numbers dont mean that the game design will change. If the game is popular and makes money, they will keep it in the same direction (and change it only if they want the really big consumer-market and not only space-nerds). If not - something will change, but this cant be predicted. So far i have a feeling that this game is pretty big and star citizen was a nice "help" - people who got the taste of it, but cant wait, got ED.

I made that bet knowing I can honour it but I know I have more chance of winning the lottery in real life.

FD have said they are "making the game we want to play" from the start, I guess I am lucky as I like their game as I am sure many others do, I understand you might not.

I am sure their yearly accounts will show how much we like ED, they will be published soon and I expect them to show that FD have made enough from ED to keep working on it for many years to come, I bought the DLC up front with the Beta, I hope to see it in the next year so I expect they have a lot to do before we see any DLC.

If you "uninstalled and ignored just like 80% of our steam library" you only keep 20% of your games? you need to a bit more research mate.

To quote me (lol). Some people didn't researching the game before buying it, that's a problem with the buyer, not the game!

Ps

Steam is just a lot of hot air, its not cool lol.

 

[DaggerSnake]

There was mention (IIRC) that you might have to serve out your bounty in the mode that you "earn't" it.

If the modes were split I would never play open again, I would not start again.

Ps

"Yea there's probably better ways to address the exploitable parts of the switching mechanic."

We call it a "design feature"

sorry... Yea there's probably better ways to address the exploitable parts of the design feature.

 

[atak2]

Everything wrong with Elite: Dangerous [IMHO] was an additional thread on this topic (click here to see the list of additional threads). We've merged it in here so everyone can talk to each other.

Post #	author	summary
#1​	CmdrNestor	Everything wrong with Elite: Dangerous [IMHO]
#2​	fademist	For CL yes they need to fix it at sometime...…
#3​	Valethar	I imagine this is going to see a merge soon.…
#4​	Cmdr Moritz	Since you left out the implementation of the global(not just…
#5​	CmdrNestor	No it's not acceptable at all. I hope that it…
#6​	Zelos1983	Sorry but: Combat Logging is an essential mechanism to mitigate…
#7​	Silent_Star	Today i got interdicted by a cmdr in a python,…
#8​	JosiahD	While I agree with your concerns over combat logging, one…
#9​	ACenterForAnts	I thought you said this thread was 'Everything wrong with…
#10​	Razeth	I'll just say I 100% agree with all points. Especially…
#11​	LKx	The CL is just an exemple of why you can't…
#12​	T-Dog	^^This. Because that is not how the game was designed.…
#13​	nite	IMO the correct way to fix Solo vs Open Play…
#14​	kilvenny	If I wanted to encourage open play and reduce combat…
#15​	Helo	Give the pirate his toll, or avoid dangerous systems? For…
#16​	Ziggy Stardust	so it will die a quick death which is more game-humane oh brave open player?
#17​	CmdrNestor	Fixed. Copy & Paste, not the space bar.
#18​	Greyhawk	Repped. The high cost of dying is why open isn't…
#19​	Decado	Im gonna guess since you have been playing this pc…
#20​	Jack Schitt	<sigh> "I'm not like all those other haters, I'm different.…
#21​	Ian Phillips	I saw solo vs open and PvP. Good enough for me
#22​	Silent_Star	I know what you mean. The other python cmdr carried…

If you would like to discuss the issue further, please click "Report this post" below (see the dispute resolution procedure for details). Public discussion of moderator actions is against the forum rules.

I honestly hope that every CMDR who has found issue with the Open Vs Solo disparity contacts the moderation team. Its ludicrous that these continuing issues are disappeared to this black hole of a thread.

For my part I have sent the moderation team a message.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I honestly hope that every CMDR who has found issue with the Open Vs Solo disparity contacts the moderation team.

There is no disparity between Open and Solo. You are free to choose either, any time you like - as has been discussed to death.

 

[atak2]

How would you know? You spend all your time blocking people through your router...