As someone with more than a few of those tags, I say do it. Wiping my name off the face of the galaxy is a small price to pay to keep me interested in exploring it. I have a sneaking suspicion many explorers would agree with me. Many of them hate the first discovery tags anyway, I think its a small price.
The State of Exploration
- Thread starter GeneralSpecific
- Start date
As someone with more than a few of those tags, I say do it. Wiping my name off the face of the galaxy is a small price to pay to keep me interested in exploring it. I have a sneaking suspicion many explorers would agree with me. Many of them hate the first discovery tags anyway, I think its a small price.
So can someone summon up what we are actually arguing about here and what will make exploration 'better'. Is it the dropouts and probs uploading data after 1.3 which for me at least seem to have been resolved and is now pretty rapid? Or more fundamental 'exploring needs some love'. In its present form it is still by far my most favourite activity in ED. the only frustration is route planning still not persisting across log off, but i suppose i can live with that. Targetting individual bodies doesnt seem to work because you lose your route which is a pain so i dont. Not at all interested in 'ancient civilisations', dancing girls, burger bars or any artificial stuff. So what is it we want?
as a multi role player, I embarked on an exploration journey about 3 or 4 weeks ago, yes it is very much a rinse and repeat mechanic at the moment and I suspect when I get back I will be sprending many hours just selling my data (as pete has had to do and has shown in the video), back before release they did have a sell all option, I never really understood why that option was removed until I saw it mentioned here about load on servers...
Yes the universe is procedurally generated, BUT there is data for explored systems must be stored, first discovered tags for each planetary body for example. So perhaps that is the reason why we are limiited to selling data 1 page at a time and the time it takes to verify the first discovered tags etc etc...Still I wonder if a better system could be designed (I guess it could given the resources and time to do so)...
I too am more than just a player of the game... I brought beta access and would have actually been a founder had I known about it at the time but I only found out about elite dangerous on the web when Beta 1.0 was released. I have been very active during all the beta tests except 1.1 or 1.2 I think as I was working FIFO at the time and so was not at home with PC... I have spent the equivalent of a founders pack (over 150 pounds) just in merchandise from the store and will continue to spend more in the future, not just on paint jobs, but on shirts, hoodies, mugs, keyrings and pins... Their hoodies are bloody awesome, well made, thick and warm and I fully reccomend them over the usual middle class store brought ones
well worth the 40 quid IMHO
Sorry I digressed, as an explorer, there are some things I do kind of expect to be in the game at some point (rightly or wrongly its just my own expectations I guess), those being
A delivery system where selling large quantities of data does not take so long as to make it a job unto itself.
Extra items in the galaxy comets, rogue asteroids, radiation effects on shields and sensors in certain regions
Nebula bodies that might require scanning from multiple systems around the nebula to fully discover and give us a system nav point to jump to while hinting such a thing exists when we are scanning from systems around the nebula maybe shown as anomoly on the galaxy map for example until we have enough scanned data from different systems to pinpoints its exact jump location.
Bounty Hunting, Trading, Combateers and PvPers and people who multirole (like myself) all have been given various updates and tweaks, but there has not been much done for exploring since gamma.
The only real change has been the targetable system map, but that to me is more to help traders than explorers who plot long courses and then visit in system points of interest as they journey along their plotted route because selecting a planetary body from the system map will mess up your plotted route, well it did in the beta and i have not bothered to try it in live as I tend to wing my route 1 - 4 systems at a time... But selecting points of interest from the navigation panel does not interrupt your planned route, my suggested fix is as they have 2 options for a body in the system map, plot route or target, make the target option NOT change your plotted route just as selecting the body from the nav panel does not change your plotted course...
Believe it or not, when someone first suggested this I was against it, thinking it would make it too easy for explorers to 'cherry pick', I tend to fully scan whole systems but I can well appreciate that because the mechanic in the navigation panel is not to change the route, then so should the target option in the system map perform the same function, of course using the plot route option in the navigation panel should change your plotted route you had in the galaxy map.
A lot of the 'server' problems actually have not affected me personally but I can fully understand how frustrating it has been for those who it has affected, not just explorers but a lot of players doing other things have been hit by the server problems as well since 1.3 was released.
What I would like to see done is, easier / faster selling of bulk lots of exploration data, more celestial bodies (comets etc), missions from the pilots federation given to explorers who reach elite to explore certain far off systems for high monetary rewards, more localised exploration missions for each rank on the bullitin boards for systems on the fringe of civilised space, for that I mean missions that might take the player a couple of hours to complete and offer a reasonable monetary reward as well as additional points in their rank. Those missions should be for investigating and aquiring a fresh set of scans for a given system or perhaps a given list of systems in a certain sector... The further away from the mission giver to the target sector, the higher the rewards etc.
Yes the universe is procedurally generated, BUT there is data for explored systems must be stored, first discovered tags for each planetary body for example. So perhaps that is the reason why we are limiited to selling data 1 page at a time and the time it takes to verify the first discovered tags etc etc...Still I wonder if a better system could be designed (I guess it could given the resources and time to do so)...
I too am more than just a player of the game... I brought beta access and would have actually been a founder had I known about it at the time but I only found out about elite dangerous on the web when Beta 1.0 was released. I have been very active during all the beta tests except 1.1 or 1.2 I think as I was working FIFO at the time and so was not at home with PC... I have spent the equivalent of a founders pack (over 150 pounds) just in merchandise from the store and will continue to spend more in the future, not just on paint jobs, but on shirts, hoodies, mugs, keyrings and pins... Their hoodies are bloody awesome, well made, thick and warm and I fully reccomend them over the usual middle class store brought ones
well worth the 40 quid IMHO Sorry I digressed, as an explorer, there are some things I do kind of expect to be in the game at some point (rightly or wrongly its just my own expectations I guess), those being
A delivery system where selling large quantities of data does not take so long as to make it a job unto itself.
Extra items in the galaxy comets, rogue asteroids, radiation effects on shields and sensors in certain regions
Nebula bodies that might require scanning from multiple systems around the nebula to fully discover and give us a system nav point to jump to while hinting such a thing exists when we are scanning from systems around the nebula maybe shown as anomoly on the galaxy map for example until we have enough scanned data from different systems to pinpoints its exact jump location.
Bounty Hunting, Trading, Combateers and PvPers and people who multirole (like myself) all have been given various updates and tweaks, but there has not been much done for exploring since gamma.
The only real change has been the targetable system map, but that to me is more to help traders than explorers who plot long courses and then visit in system points of interest as they journey along their plotted route because selecting a planetary body from the system map will mess up your plotted route, well it did in the beta and i have not bothered to try it in live as I tend to wing my route 1 - 4 systems at a time... But selecting points of interest from the navigation panel does not interrupt your planned route, my suggested fix is as they have 2 options for a body in the system map, plot route or target, make the target option NOT change your plotted route just as selecting the body from the nav panel does not change your plotted course...
Believe it or not, when someone first suggested this I was against it, thinking it would make it too easy for explorers to 'cherry pick', I tend to fully scan whole systems but I can well appreciate that because the mechanic in the navigation panel is not to change the route, then so should the target option in the system map perform the same function, of course using the plot route option in the navigation panel should change your plotted route you had in the galaxy map.
A lot of the 'server' problems actually have not affected me personally but I can fully understand how frustrating it has been for those who it has affected, not just explorers but a lot of players doing other things have been hit by the server problems as well since 1.3 was released.
What I would like to see done is, easier / faster selling of bulk lots of exploration data, more celestial bodies (comets etc), missions from the pilots federation given to explorers who reach elite to explore certain far off systems for high monetary rewards, more localised exploration missions for each rank on the bullitin boards for systems on the fringe of civilised space, for that I mean missions that might take the player a couple of hours to complete and offer a reasonable monetary reward as well as additional points in their rank. Those missions should be for investigating and aquiring a fresh set of scans for a given system or perhaps a given list of systems in a certain sector... The further away from the mission giver to the target sector, the higher the rewards etc.
Have my own share of tags as well, would happily see them wiped. The people who first made it to SagA and crossed the galaxy will have their place in Elite legend anyway. I won't explore any more, even though it's what brought me to the game along with smuggling, something which also needs love. The simplistic nature of the mechanics and the fact that it is essentially just planet collecting and horribly grindy in nature just makes me sad. I'm glad some folks are enjoying it, but it could be so much more.
I've seen explorers display disappointment, sarcasm, wit, originality and state their case intelligently, but I've never seen "rage". Most explorers are the patient type and are the more savvy type of E: D player. If you care to go to the explorers forum you'll see just that. You'll also see that playing solo dramatically reduces crashes.
I'm not speaking for the exploration community at large, just myself when I say that I've been planning multiple 850-950 LY routes without issue. If you select a planet on the system map after that the nav route is cleared, but FD is working on that.
As for selling data, that is not a 1.3 issue. Its been that way since since 1.0. The only impatient rage I see is yours and that's your own personal demon to contend with.
"Squeaky wheel gets the grease", how about "Ticketed items get fixed".
If you see a bug or error, report it. Open a ticket, add video as support if possible, and be patient. If you have not reported this, assuming someone else has, then you are the cause of your own disappointment. If you can't be bothered, then you have no right to moan.
Last, anyone who thinks these issues are something that can be sorted in an hour, is simply mad.
For those discussing routing in the core part of the galaxy, the problem isn't the servers or your computer, the problem is the number of choices that can be reached is extremely high and is very intense to make decisions through...that is the problem. Basically, increased numbers of systems=increased numbers of forks to the decision tree. It would be way faster to plot your own path at that point.
In the core I found that if plotting failed (stuck @ 97%ish) to a particular system then selecting another (near by) system often worked almost instantly.
A little hit and miss but this approach allowed me to make good progress through the core when I wasn't particularly concerned about the destination (other than forwards).
A little hit and miss but this approach allowed me to make good progress through the core when I wasn't particularly concerned about the destination (other than forwards).
Wut?!
Combat in AC is a joke right now. All you have to do is, with the help of the completely broken uber-powerful trusters, point your target and click. Controller balance is broken, mouse players have an unfair advantage.
Now I heard they are working on controller balance, but until they find a way to give importance to actually flying the ship instead of just aiming your target, Elite combat will be the best imo.
It's not finished but it is not pre-alpha either. IMO they still have a LOT of work to do... So I don't expect the game anytime soon.
Now back to ED, I guess exploration will get a lot of love in the future, let's not forget about planetary landings... At least I hope!
Nice for you guys - I have a few tags too, and I'd be pretty annoyed to see them gone, just to add some balance in case anyone thinks no-one really cares about their tags. There's very little benefit to being an explorer except to see shiny stuff and get screenshots. The tags more than make up for this in most cases. I'm resigned to not seeing any major increase in explorer income, but I see us as being "paid" in tags and cool views of the galaxy.
-- Pete.
Yep. I have thousands of tags and they are mine....all mine.
I'm glad you two chimed in to provide the counter point. I suspect the community will be as divided as this thread is on the issue and FDev would have to be careful around this. Of course Id rather keep the tags, but "look at all the tags I have" is a lamb Id be willing to slaughter for "look at all these new kinds of tags I can get". Though I respect both of yours opinions as totally valid on the subject.
Honestly even if they had a major rejiggering of the galaxy I wouldn't mind if they kept all the found systems found rather than rebooting it. Given how fast exploration is, it's only logical that all the big sites have been bagged and tagged. It's up to us to find the other interesting things out there that could be added.
It's the difference between someone being the first to circumnavigate the globe, and finding new undiscovered species in every country. We live in a time here and now where most "firsts" have been done - Everest has been climbed, the Marianis Trench has been reached, but we still find new firsts every so often that amaze us all.
It's the difference between someone being the first to circumnavigate the globe, and finding new undiscovered species in every country. We live in a time here and now where most "firsts" have been done - Everest has been climbed, the Marianis Trench has been reached, but we still find new firsts every so often that amaze us all.
I have three suggestions.
Suggestion 1: Hiding Discovery Tags
The tags to me are a marker signifying that at least one player has been this way and lived to tell the tale. This can be interpreted many ways. Firstly, someone has beaten you to an extra exploration payday that could have been yours, and secondly, someone has a mark etched on the Universe that nobody else (save the devs on a particularly bad day) can ever take away.
How does this affect exploration? Are they warning posts to look for other places to go? Is finding a bunch of tags all with the same name reassuring, that you're following a path that is safe to travel so keep going, or discouraging that you got there too late and telling you to go find something else? And if the latter case is true, then where should they go?
A while back I suggested that the system map have an option to hide discovery tags. I still think, while it gives a false impression of the situation, it will encourage others to see that there are places to visit, as finding discovery tags on one's journey might lead to a sense of anticlimax for the aspiring explorer. The global statistics and discoveries will of course always be available.
Suggestion 2: galaxy map view of known and explored systems
A further step in the right direction is in having the galaxy map display a colourful galactic overview of which systems are known to the player's own personal map through map purchasing, visiting, discovery scanning, or detailed surface scanning, and to which degrees these are the case per player (as dictated by different coloured dots). I think that letting the explorer just go to systems that they themselves know they haven't been to or fully detail scanned before (regardless of their first discovery status) would be more of an encouragement to them.
Even better, personal map sharing can become a thing, with the galaxy map showing at a glance which systems CMDR Alpha Juliet has visited alongside which systems CMDR Zulu Romeo has seen. In fact, it could work out as a better system than the first discovery system in terms of following another player's journey, although it must not replace the first discovery system. There can be separate overlays per CMDR depending on how many maps you own. Of course, the maps of other CMDRs are only as complete as what they were when you obtained them, and will not update in real time, but your own map will for you. It will not stop you earning new data for systems you haven't seen yourself, though, or bagging discoveries on systems the other player hasn't got despite passing through. It's just a guide to compare notes as it were.
Plus, by showing a galaxy map overview of systems visited and proportion of data collected, promoting the buying and selling of maps and regions, and enabling map sharing, it reinforces this notion at present (or as I see it) about exploration data. As I see it, all system data explored and learned is bound to you, the player, and not your ship, and is learned immediately and permanently. If your ship is destroyed you won't be able to profit from selling your data and earning first discovery tags (as nobody believes your tale) but you still keep the data of where you have visited and what you have scanned. This way, emphasis is placed more on knowledge rather than wealth and fame.
Suggestion 3: more detailed Universal Cartographics debriefing
Hiding the tags on the way out might give a false impression of the situation that only selling the data will reveal, but to me, in my mind, exploring to gain data and selling the data for credits are two completely different mindsets. Personally, maybe I'm getting weary, but knowing that I have a bunch of first discoveries or not according to the UC popup isn't a big deal now, and certainly I don't see them as extra credits for me. Sure, there are one or two systems on which I am proud to see my name in lights there (OK, there *are* two that I care about), but after a thousand system journey with hundreds of bodies tagged by myself come the selling of data, new discoveries tend to blur into a lump of letters and numbers.
If UC have a way of showing you the appearance and description of the exact bodies scanned so you can remind yourself of what you scanned, instead of a breakdown of the value of the individual bodies only, then I might care more about which new systems have tags on them come selling.
Suggestion 1: Hiding Discovery Tags
The tags to me are a marker signifying that at least one player has been this way and lived to tell the tale. This can be interpreted many ways. Firstly, someone has beaten you to an extra exploration payday that could have been yours, and secondly, someone has a mark etched on the Universe that nobody else (save the devs on a particularly bad day) can ever take away.
How does this affect exploration? Are they warning posts to look for other places to go? Is finding a bunch of tags all with the same name reassuring, that you're following a path that is safe to travel so keep going, or discouraging that you got there too late and telling you to go find something else? And if the latter case is true, then where should they go?
A while back I suggested that the system map have an option to hide discovery tags. I still think, while it gives a false impression of the situation, it will encourage others to see that there are places to visit, as finding discovery tags on one's journey might lead to a sense of anticlimax for the aspiring explorer. The global statistics and discoveries will of course always be available.
Suggestion 2: galaxy map view of known and explored systems
A further step in the right direction is in having the galaxy map display a colourful galactic overview of which systems are known to the player's own personal map through map purchasing, visiting, discovery scanning, or detailed surface scanning, and to which degrees these are the case per player (as dictated by different coloured dots). I think that letting the explorer just go to systems that they themselves know they haven't been to or fully detail scanned before (regardless of their first discovery status) would be more of an encouragement to them.
Even better, personal map sharing can become a thing, with the galaxy map showing at a glance which systems CMDR Alpha Juliet has visited alongside which systems CMDR Zulu Romeo has seen. In fact, it could work out as a better system than the first discovery system in terms of following another player's journey, although it must not replace the first discovery system. There can be separate overlays per CMDR depending on how many maps you own. Of course, the maps of other CMDRs are only as complete as what they were when you obtained them, and will not update in real time, but your own map will for you. It will not stop you earning new data for systems you haven't seen yourself, though, or bagging discoveries on systems the other player hasn't got despite passing through. It's just a guide to compare notes as it were.
Plus, by showing a galaxy map overview of systems visited and proportion of data collected, promoting the buying and selling of maps and regions, and enabling map sharing, it reinforces this notion at present (or as I see it) about exploration data. As I see it, all system data explored and learned is bound to you, the player, and not your ship, and is learned immediately and permanently. If your ship is destroyed you won't be able to profit from selling your data and earning first discovery tags (as nobody believes your tale) but you still keep the data of where you have visited and what you have scanned. This way, emphasis is placed more on knowledge rather than wealth and fame.
Suggestion 3: more detailed Universal Cartographics debriefing
Hiding the tags on the way out might give a false impression of the situation that only selling the data will reveal, but to me, in my mind, exploring to gain data and selling the data for credits are two completely different mindsets. Personally, maybe I'm getting weary, but knowing that I have a bunch of first discoveries or not according to the UC popup isn't a big deal now, and certainly I don't see them as extra credits for me. Sure, there are one or two systems on which I am proud to see my name in lights there (OK, there *are* two that I care about
), but after a thousand system journey with hundreds of bodies tagged by myself come the selling of data, new discoveries tend to blur into a lump of letters and numbers. If UC have a way of showing you the appearance and description of the exact bodies scanned so you can remind yourself of what you scanned, instead of a breakdown of the value of the individual bodies only, then I might care more about which new systems have tags on them come selling.
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You know, I really was not interested in Elite.
I didn't play the old games, cause I didn't think a game with the pretentious name Elite could possibly any good.
But when I read about FD rendering our Galaxy, I was interested for no other reason than that one.
I would probably already have gone to explore, if FD's customer service hadn't taken from December 27th 2014 till May 17th 2015 to restore my account from getting "stuck in a bugged system".
So its unfortunate that their best feature (to me, anyway) appears to also be their lowest priority. Surprise
Instead they do Power Play, with more power hungry, scheming, double crossing virtual humans doing the same tired soap opera garbage people already do here on earth.
Why are people duplicating the stuff, the results of which they're trying to escape from, in the very games they're escaping to?
Reading your post, I feel like I should have stuck to my refusal to play anything named "Elite"
Off topic: If I want to go explore anyway, to make my cash grinding good for something, should I bring an ASP or a Conda, or something else?
The disposable Zorgon Hauler seems to lack one or two slots for a good setup (aside from the spooky cockpit sounds)...
I love seeing the discovery tags, and wouldn't want to lose them. But FD have never discussed losing them so it's not really an issue.
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Asp has a good canopy to view everything, and good jump range, so is usually seen as the best ship for the job. But you can use anything really.
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Asp has a good canopy to view everything, and good jump range, so is usually seen as the best ship for the job. But you can use anything really.
I'd like to see the following events occur once a more involved, analytical exploration method is implemented:
Okay, this is all pure wishful thinking but along with better discovery mechanics, it would make exploration a lot more interesting to me, and I would wager a few others.
- Universal Cartographics bites the dust (due to system failure/criminal conspiracy/market crash/Thargoid virus/other). Backup data, stored in memory pods held in multiple locations, goes missing. All major factions deny responsibility.
- A variant of the KWS module is introduced with the ability to siphon data from other shipboard sources than the crime databanks. Cartographic data theft is now a possibility.
- Imperial Cartographics is created, with a small subset of the old UC data, mainly centred around regions under the thumb of the Empire. They offer large rewards for survey data, especially non-Imperial space. They also offer an alternative - a steady income based upon a percentage of resource rights. Detailed scan data is required for the higher rewards, of course. Used (or stolen) data is untrustworthy and less valuable. Selling IC data to other parties is, if discovered, considered a serious offence.
- The Federal Cartography Service is born a couple of days after IC. The FCS offer a similar deal, only with a lower reward level or a higher income from resource rights. Similar restrictions to the Imps exist on used/stolen data and "double-dipping" (if the offence is discovered).
- Allied Cartography eventually stumbles into existence, with lower rewards for new data than the others but higher rewards for used data, and no qualms about accepting used or stolen data.
- It is rumoured that the missing UC pods are being salvaged in the debris from some warzones. Pirates trade such pods on the black market, eventually finding their way to the Three (factions), who of course deny any impropriety. It's a bit of a lucky dip - some contents are heavily corrupted or even forged, whilst some contain data on classified sites, detailing secret military shipyards or bases belonging to the Three. These are highly valuable but also highly dangerous to own. Big rewards are offered for the safe return of said data to the faction it refers to, but even bigger rewards are on offer to those willing to take the risk.
Okay, this is all pure wishful thinking but along with better discovery mechanics, it would make exploration a lot more interesting to me, and I would wager a few others.
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Both these issues have been around for a while and been mentioned in a number of different threads.
Route Planning is essentially a math and processing power problem. There are so many more stars, finding the most efficient or quickest way takes a lot more time since there are a lot more options. However there have been solutions put forward in a number of threads. Here is one good one. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=151389&p=2330075#post2330075
Route Planning is essentially a math and processing power problem. There are so many more stars, finding the most efficient or quickest way takes a lot more time since there are a lot more options. However there have been solutions put forward in a number of threads. Here is one good one. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=151389&p=2330075#post2330075
