PSA: you probably don't know what makes a good game
- Thread starter KaizoMK
- Start date
Fun is massively subjective and perhaps the funniest to watch are the classic arguments over which consoles are better etc. A friend pointed out to me once that, for all the people who say that Nintendo titles (for example) are not fun, and to kiddie, turns out they are more popular than the other platforms, and well maybe you might not find it fun but a hell of a lot of people do indeed find titles on those systems enjoyable.
some good points too that what is one persons joy is another persons tedium. Iv played EvE online with someone who's passion was mining... personally, mining was ok, but never really wanted to spend multiple hours doing it. Does it mean CCP needed to remove mining? or make mining more attractive? No, not really.
I think most of the opposition to change is just because people get comfortable doing their thing. RES hunting for example to me felt a bit crazy, Iv made more money in game doing that than anything else. Went from an Asp, to a Clipper, to a Python in about 1 week. Which to me feels fast. I know other people want to press start for the first time and end up in a doomsday machine... but... well.. that kind of design choice is thankfully not readily available.
Point is, if you play a game and find something enjoying to do, why not do it? If that changes and you dont find it enjoying... then maybe look elsewhere in the game for a bit, or adapt your play style. If it makes you really so upset that you would spit the dummy out and throw down your controller, then maybe the game was never for you.
some good points too that what is one persons joy is another persons tedium. Iv played EvE online with someone who's passion was mining... personally, mining was ok, but never really wanted to spend multiple hours doing it. Does it mean CCP needed to remove mining? or make mining more attractive? No, not really.
I think most of the opposition to change is just because people get comfortable doing their thing. RES hunting for example to me felt a bit crazy, Iv made more money in game doing that than anything else. Went from an Asp, to a Clipper, to a Python in about 1 week. Which to me feels fast. I know other people want to press start for the first time and end up in a doomsday machine... but... well.. that kind of design choice is thankfully not readily available.
Point is, if you play a game and find something enjoying to do, why not do it? If that changes and you dont find it enjoying... then maybe look elsewhere in the game for a bit, or adapt your play style. If it makes you really so upset that you would spit the dummy out and throw down your controller, then maybe the game was never for you.
You do, for yourself.
No, you're very wrong. I actually agree with much of your original post and really like the game. But there are a lot of posts on here with people defending FD using the 'if you're not a game designer you don't know what you're talking about.'
What if I think the game is absolutely amazing? Is my unqualified and inexperienced opinion still void?
The problem with the food example is that a certain amount of knowledge is required to know how to combine ingredients in such a way as to complement one another or to achieve a desired flavour outcome. This is because the way the ingredients interact isn't necessarily intuitive. The same isn't really true of gameplay. That is to say: you don't need to be a developer to know that "more exploration gameplay" would be a positive change for the game. You don't even need to be a game designer to throw some ideas out there for what the details of that gameplay might be.
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Ya, we did. Could do that in "Asteroids" too......
That's silly. It's like saying your cinema ticket should give you the right to stand up in the middle of the movie and demand they adjust it based on your artistic preferences.
Of course developers should take on feedback and criticism, but you have no right to creative control. It costs far more than £40 to make a video game.
I fly a spaceship with a hundred controls a lot better than I flew a spaceship with three controls. >______>
haha me too...
Oh I absolutely agree that FD has made poor implementation decisions, but they have a good track record when it comes to properly assessing and addressing the issues that are highlighted by player feedback, and I think that's something that isn't going to change.
I feel that the chief complaint of RES farming nerfs is that it's not viable as a source of income, not necessarily that shooting fish in a barrel was fun but now it's not possible. I feel that on that end of the road people don't realize the journey is more important than the destination. Now profit is indeed important, and there's a balance to be had as far as journey vs profit, and I feel that the latest mission changes have struck a nice balance so far with that.
On the other end of the spectrum are the people who insist a spontaneous 10% module fee is great, because they think difficulty alone makes a game fun. When FD implements it, I'm sure it'll be done in a way that adds context to the adversity and gives value to the ability or inability of the player to deal with it.
Whilst it's true you don't have to be a dev/cook/meteorologist to know if a game is good/food tastes good/it's raining there is a world of difference between knowing something isn't right (and that's no easy task in itself, one man's fun is another's grind) it is another thing to know how to fix it.
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So far FD have done a pretty good job, there are some elements of PP that need tweaking, but otherwise it's a solid base to build on. FD have always shown they are listening and responsive. Just because they don't respond to your rant about yaw/SC autopilot/insurance doesn't mean they aren't listening and tweaking.
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If you're an infallible game design god, then please get on kickstarter so we can all look forward to seeing your bug free, shining beacon of game design, space game in the future.
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So far FD have done a pretty good job, there are some elements of PP that need tweaking, but otherwise it's a solid base to build on. FD have always shown they are listening and responsive. Just because they don't respond to your rant about yaw/SC autopilot/insurance doesn't mean they aren't listening and tweaking.
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If you're an infallible game design god, then please get on kickstarter so we can all look forward to seeing your bug free, shining beacon of game design, space game in the future.
Not necesarily. I could be so bad that I'd burn water, for all you know! If I were the kind of person that enjoyed food that made a big point of it's secret sauce/formula/spice/etc, it doesn't follow that I can uncover that secret. Even if you gave me the ingredient list, I might have no chance of getting the balance right in my own (unused) kitchen.
So to stay on topic...i make it some lasanga (was great btw), here is hot like in the hell itself with an humidity that make me swim, and i got to say i was expecting more by the PP (something like mission in the bulletin board being flagged by the alliance of that sistem or maybe like a mission that require you to find something to delivered to a station so they give you something to brought back...or shoot someone that stole some kind of document, maybe some more weapons, or different ammo for the weapons, you got it what i was hoping for)
But like anything when it come to games it stay just on your personal preference (beside the bugs, we all agree i hope bugs are bad, patch it with fire i say).
But like anything when it come to games it stay just on your personal preference (beside the bugs, we all agree i hope bugs are bad, patch it with fire i say).
So, what is the point of your thread OP ? You basically made a thread to tell people that they aren't qualified to have an opinion of the game and then turn around and share your opinion of the game as being the correct one. A bit hypocritical don't you think ?
Negative feedback and criticism is essential for an MMO's long term success. I am happy that people are passionate enough about the game that they put in the effort to post detailed, negative feedback. Because, honestly not every design decision has been "spot on" as you say. Everyone here who posts long and descriptive complaints about the game clearly cares about the its long term success. I love Elite, but not every aspect of it. Saying that every aspect of it is "spot on" is very much akin to burying your head in the sand. It simply isn't constructive. Obviously, not every type of negative criticism is helpful. Threads, that simply say things a long the lines of: "Yo, this is broken, yo. Fix yo damn game fool." Well, this stuff isn't helpful either. But you know this sort of thing applies to positive feedback as well. It is the same problem, but simply the other side of the same coin. You'll have threads where people voice legitimate and well reasoned concerns that require sensible discussion. Unfortunately, what you get instead is a flood of raving white knights that feel like they need to defend the honor of the frail princess of Frontier. Because those poor professional developers clearly don't know how to deal with negative feedback themselves. They are professionals. They are perfectly capable of distinguishing between constructive and non-constructive criticism. So telling people what their opinion of the game should or should not be is absolutely not your job.
Negative feedback and criticism is essential for an MMO's long term success. I am happy that people are passionate enough about the game that they put in the effort to post detailed, negative feedback. Because, honestly not every design decision has been "spot on" as you say. Everyone here who posts long and descriptive complaints about the game clearly cares about the its long term success. I love Elite, but not every aspect of it. Saying that every aspect of it is "spot on" is very much akin to burying your head in the sand. It simply isn't constructive. Obviously, not every type of negative criticism is helpful. Threads, that simply say things a long the lines of: "Yo, this is broken, yo. Fix yo damn game fool." Well, this stuff isn't helpful either. But you know this sort of thing applies to positive feedback as well. It is the same problem, but simply the other side of the same coin. You'll have threads where people voice legitimate and well reasoned concerns that require sensible discussion. Unfortunately, what you get instead is a flood of raving white knights that feel like they need to defend the honor of the frail princess of Frontier. Because those poor professional developers clearly don't know how to deal with negative feedback themselves. They are professionals. They are perfectly capable of distinguishing between constructive and non-constructive criticism. So telling people what their opinion of the game should or should not be is absolutely not your job.
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I agree with almost all of this except to point out that using a P2P structure pretty much disqualifies this from being an MMO. At no point can a Massive amount of Multiplayers be Online in the same instance/shard.
Is that "in the same instance" bit fundamental though? A massive amount of players can be online at the same time, and they can all affect the galaxy - even more so since Powerplay. They might not all be shooting at each other in real-time, but a lot of MMOs are turn-based or slow right down when it gets crowded. Anyway, don't quite a few MMOs have instance dungeons?