Shield recharge - MISCONCEPT!

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

This is not so. Downed shields recharge at a flat 1.6 MJ/s as long as there's energy in the SYS capacitor: http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDanger...ll_shields_recharge_while_active_at_the_same/

This is the really ridiculous part - should an Anaconda's shield charge at the same 1.6MJ/sec rate as a little Eagle? Its like handing the 'conda pilot a little drip tube and telling him to fill up the fuel tank with it. It might be okay for the Eagle but certainly gimps the 'conda.

Shield recharge should scale with the size of the ship - some ships could have slower or faster recharge, as well as having larger or smaller base shields etc.

The idea that all shields regardless of size charge at the same rate is utterly non-sensical.

OT: I think shield recharge in ststion should be faster (2-3x perhaps) and pilots should be able to expend cells or buy shield recharge as a 'repair'. Improve turnaround - remove the silly blast gate/drop thingy on medium and large pads, and let us get off the pad quicker and out of the door to have fun.

 

[Chaodiurn]

As aggressive as it is presented, it got all my agreement. A station - shield gen connection would be more than reasonable with the radical centre landing pads that don't work if you land even a bit off.

 

[Stigbob]

.....again, no idea what you're talking about. Instant shield recharge cheating? And how does a lack of recharge at a station stop kamikaze?

Nothing is stopping me from leaving a station without shields either. ....no wait, common sense. Common sense is making me wait in a station.

It's only a game risk is fun.

Fully agreed.

Nobody says that it doesn't improve the game for a majority. But a recharge option in a station would even further improve it without missing its target (shields still don't recharge on SC engage).

Against real cheaters it seems to be useless. When you ask google about the cheats you will find a forum where the cheaters lough out loud about us and FD. They manipulate their client to shorten timers and change multipliers for recharge time and strength as well as weapon power. But that are a hand full of people that shouldn't bother us at all.

Having the shields "remember" their charge over SC is very fine. Just as stated above, a recharge facility would be great.

PS: yes and it it's only me, making me wait at a red light or have a look at my balance regarding insurance before takoff ...

Your right I think we've both been checking the same cheat forum for accurate updates on what cheaters are doing, FD seem to be unable/unwilling to deal with it (although they are harsh on people talking about it in the forum so we'd better drop this part of the topic).

But the issue I have with a station re-charge button is that griefer's (not cheats) will abuse it, like they abused missiles until they got nerfed and like they abused ramming until we all got hit with a speed limit.

 

[KaizoMK]

It's only a game risk is fun

So I'm forced to either take a needless risk by launching early and hoping my shield doesn't see any action for twenty minutes....or wait? That's stupid.

The elements of risk in the game give you choices - trade light, or dip into your rebuy cost savings, or try a different profession. Fly into the bay at top speed, run silent, or risk getting scanned. Look for USS for safer gains, or SSS for riskier but more profitable gains. Run shields, or run 16 more cargo.

How about, take five minutes to find a station and recharge your shield, or go about your business hoping that you won't see trouble. THAT is fun. THAT risk has some meaning.

You know what's boring as hell? Take a chance without shields, or WAIT. What the hell kind of mechanic is "waiting" anyway? It adds nothing to the game.

Maybe if there were more viable defensive options it would be a relevant choice, but shields are mandatory for any ship that expects to engage in combat. I would not consider leaving without a shield "risky" so much as "stupid".

And I'm still curious about this: HOW are griefers going to abuse this?

 

[Elgered]

But the issue I have with a station re-charge button is that griefer's (not cheats) will abuse it, like they abused missiles until they got nerfed and like they abused ramming until we all got hit with a speed limit.

Well, this could be dealt with by a short paragraph in the CoC, forcing some basic forms of "elitiquette" with dire consequences for those who don't comply.
That is, what the report players function is for, if it becomes to weird (what I can't really imagine - I only had two unjoyful encounters with other players in the past 6 months, one repeatedly ramming, one cheating, all others where at least some fun^^).

 

[KaizoMK]

Well, this could be dealt with by a short paragraph in the CoC, forcing some basic forms of "elitiquette" with dire consequences for those who don't comply.
That is, what the report players function is for, if it becomes to weird (what I can't really imagine - I only had two unjoyful encounters with other players in the past 6 months, one repeatedly ramming, one cheating, all others where at least some fun^^).

The issue with that is that it's generally simpler to change game mechanics to punish players rather than a code of conduct. The speed limit for example puts rammers out much more effectively than trying to ban them all - they just get a bounty, which causes them instant death.

 

[Elgered]

I would have many Ideas how to deal with them even better, but OK. That rule is fine as it is now. I can live with the speed limit. But not with waiting for my Python to recharge^^ (ok it really is "overshielded" with +3x A0 Boosters).

 

[Stigbob]

Well, this could be dealt with by a short paragraph in the CoC, forcing some basic forms of "elitiquette" with dire consequences for those who don't comply.
That is, what the report players function is for, if it becomes to weird (what I can't really imagine - I only had two unjoyful encounters with other players in the past 6 months, one repeatedly ramming, one cheating, all others where at least some fun^^).

The ramming griefers when politely asked to stop by FD said "I'll stop when you include a fix in your badly written exploitable code" hence the speed limit. If they'd simply banned station griefers after the first few weeks of reports (September/October 2014 maybe earlier) we wouldn't have a speed limit, and missiles would still be viable weapons, prior to that they used a defence turret exploit. Griefers have actively made the game worse, FD then made the game less fun for every player rather than take action against dedicated griefers.

Now shields are painfully slow to re-charge (for bigger ships) but on the bright side the wing shield exploit has been fixed.

Personally I wouldn't have an issue with a station recharge for a fee button, but that's because I'd never use it to grief.

 

[Armchair]

There is no need to reinvent the wheel. We just need faster out-of-combat shield recharge rates.

It makes sense that you can recharge the system faster in a controlled environment when you can work with the systems resonant frequency to put power into a system.

Think of it like moving a heavy pendulum or pushing a child on a swing. It is easy to get it moving when you are free to time your pushes with the resonant frequency of the swing. It is much harder if someone is fight you and inhibiting you from pushing at the proper time.


Dramatically improved efficiency by working at the proper frequency is seen in in many systems here in the real world.


Leave the station behind, we don't need it. As long as nobody us trying to kill us, it makes sense for us to be able to rapidly recharge in the field.

Edit:
@stigbob
The terrible speed limit system is more exploitable than the old system. It also does nothing to stop conventional rammers if they are willing to pay their rebuy fees.

 

[KaizoMK]

There is no need to reinvent the wheel. We just need faster out-of-combat shield recharge rates.

It makes sense that you can recharge the system faster in a controlled environment when you can work with the systems resonant frequency to put power into a system.

Think of it like moving a heavy pendulum or pushing a child on a swing. It is easy to get it moving when you are free to time your pushes with the resonant frequency of the swing. It is much harder if someone is fight you and inhibiting you from pushing at the proper time.


Dramatically improved efficiency by working at the proper frequency is seen in in many systems here in the real world.


Leave the station behind, we don't need it. As long as nobody us trying to kill us, it makes sense for us to be able to rapidly recharge in the field.

Edit:
@stigbob
The terrible speed limit system is more exploitable than the old system. It also does nothing to stop conventional rammers if they are willing to pay their rebuy fees.

The only issue that I have with that is we need to establish what "out of combat" is. We do not want to disrupt a pirate's ability to chase down his target out of escape.

However, there's no such concern at a space station, why not just increase the rate there to start with?

 

[Roninpaul]

Shields should be recharged after outfitting, so they can be tested and also do a 4x recharge on the pad. But only to two rings which is enough for onward. Travel .

We we don't want popular. Stations to become clogged charging sites .

i have a vulture with 5A shield generator plus a couple of boosters and it takes very little time to charge

 

[Armchair]

The only issue that I have with that is we need to establish what "out of combat" is. We do not want to disrupt a pirate's ability to chase down his target out of escape.

However, there's no such concern at a space station, why not just increase the rate there to start with?

A minute is good imo.

If an assailant can't tag a target with even token damage within that period, then he wasn't going to be able to kill them or prevent them from escaping anyway.

 

[KaizoMK]

A minute is good imo.

If an assailant can't tag a target with even token damage within that period, then he wasn't going to be able to kill them or prevent them from escaping anyway.

Hmmm....this would even have in combat implications...if a ship runs away, you could disengage to regenerate your own shield, still tailing your target perhaps.

But could you silent running for a minute to wait it out safely and hopefully get away before you get tagged again?

What other implications could we see with a one minute recharge time?

 

[Armchair]

If you've disengaged to regen your shield, then you've essentially forfeited your ability to prevent your prey from fleeing.


Silent running needs a whole re-work because it is just terrible atm.


Im also not suggesting full shields after 60 seconds. I'm suggesting shield recharge rates should dramatically increase after being out of combat for a minute (both receiving damage and dealing it).


The main repercussion that I can see is that wings could keep prey distracted while a wingman tries to regenerate his shields. Teamwork is op, more news at 11.

 

[CMDR Kantos Kan]

Agree with OP and I hope that the current system is tweaked.

When I smuggle in my little Conda, silent run in to the station. Takes forever to get shields back on again, A5 shield... 7boosters but yep I switch boosters off to get a ring back of course.

Its all a bit of a 'mare. Drinking too much tea as can't see what else to do with the 10minute timeouts.

Yeah, life is hard for those 'conda owners... I share your pain. Life as a 'conda owner must be difficult...

 

[KaizoMK]

If you've disengaged to regen your shield, then you've essentially forfeited your ability to prevent your prey from fleeing.


Silent running needs a whole re-work because it is just terrible atm.


Im also not suggesting full shields after 60 seconds. I'm suggesting shield recharge rates should dramatically increase after being out of combat for a minute (both receiving damage and dealing it).


The main repercussion that I can see is that wings could keep prey distracted while a wingman tries to regenerate his shields. Teamwork is op, more news at 11.

Oh I know. I would say after time shield regen should merely accelerate. Perhaps this can be a "not taken damage" thing rather than a "out of combat" thing. I think we're onto something here.

 

[Stigbob]

Edit:
@stigbob
The terrible speed limit system is more exploitable than the old system. It also does nothing to stop conventional rammers if they are willing to pay their rebuy fees.

I stand ready to be corrected but as far as I know station griefing has pretty much stopped, however I haven't been near Lave in a while.

 

[Shaamaan]

Yeah, life is hard for those 'conda owners... I share your pain. Life as a 'conda owner must be difficult...

Oh, the sarcasm leaks from this post like water from a soaked sponge.

You do realize that anything with a better shield has the same problem? An A-grade Vulture with shield boosters is going to have to sit around for a while. It might not be the Anacondas 20 minute wait time, but it's still ~10 minutes should one choose to wait for full shields.

 

[CMDR Kantos Kan]

Oh, the sarcasm leaks from this post like water from a soaked sponge.

You do realize that anything with a better shield has the same problem? An A-grade Vulture with shield boosters is going to have to sit around for a while. It might not be the Anacondas 20 minute wait time, but it's still ~10 minutes should one choose to wait for full shields.

Yes, I was just kinda pulling some legs here ;-)

As a side note, I got a Diamondback Explorer yesterday at the end of the day to replace my trusty Cobra. I immediately upgraded it, shield generator 4A plus 2 A0 shield boosters. Was interdicted 3 times, once by a Cobra (!), once by an Adder and once by a Diamondback Scout. They never dented the 2nd ring of my shield. They were maybe not the most dangerous and lethal ships but still, haven't had any problem with regenerating what I lost, quite quickly, I would say in less than 30 seconds, my shield was full. Of course, I also have the best power distributor for this ship and the best power plant. I've learned very quickly that these 2 parts are essential with laser-based weapons and help tremendously with the shields. Still, I'm just a newbie compared to you guys with fully loaded Pythons and Anacondas...

 

[Stigbob]

Yes, I was just kinda pulling some legs here ;-)

As a side note, I got a Diamondback Explorer yesterday at the end of the day to replace my trusty Cobra. I immediately upgraded it, shield generator 4A plus 2 A0 shield boosters. Was interdicted 3 times, once by a Cobra (!), once by an Adder and once by a Diamondback Scout. They never dented the 2nd ring of my shield. They were maybe not the most dangerous and lethal ships but still, haven't had any problem with regenerating what I lost, quite quickly, I would say in less than 30 seconds, my shield was full. Of course, I also have the best power distributor for this ship and the best power plant. I've learned very quickly that these 2 parts are essential with laser-based weapons and help tremendously with the shields. Still, I'm just a newbie compared to you guys with fully loaded Pythons and Anacondas...

Try the diamondback scout it's really good fun, the perfect mission/hunting ship (IMHO) like a viper with extra vroom better hard-point positioning and better internal compartments (worse shield though).