Priority choices of ED development

Problem is, if you release a game, you are saying it is NOT in development any-more. There is a reasonable expectation of a AAA game at release when you release a game at AAA prices. I think almost everyone will agree that F:D at the moment is no-where near a AAA game.

This is the biggest problem with E:D.

Its rushed. It is far far too shallow. Many design decisions have just been 'what is the easiest/quickest way to do this' instead of 'what is the best way to do this'. All in all, its sabotaged itself.

Putting more dev time into console ports, when the game doesn't even have enough content to keep the people already here entertained is just yet another mistake the management has made in this game. The game should be at least taken to the state it should have been at release before they even consider console ports.

Problem is FD has no AAA budget to pull this off. They want to deliver on quality but they don't have resources - nor financial, nor human - to pull release with everything in it. That's why I am highly skeptical of NMS and SC claims having everything and kitchen sink at release - of course they won't have it and people will be disappointed.

As I said, I believe it's right strategy to get as many platforms as you can going - especially with FD marketing budget. However, I and others want to hear more from devs about upcoming stuff. Dev updates released after 1.1. and 1.2 actually did a trick and was right way to engage. However even after 1.2 FD fell a more silent each day. Maybe they are very busy, or they are taking holidays (in June it makes sense), I don't know.
 
I admit that hearing some news from the team on what they are looking towards tackling first would certainly ease any concern on my part. Heres hoping theres still a great announcement coming this week.
 
Couldn't have said it better myself.

I was watching the E3 preview of No Man's Sky earlier (yes this is related, please mods don't move it yet) that someone linked to and they said something during the demo that struck a chord. They were showing the zillions of systems (same as ours and I assume generated in the same fashion) and they said "everywhere you go is filled with choices". That pretty much sums up what ED needs to become a complete game - choices, things to DO. You've summed up several good mechanics that the game needs to provide them and I'm sure there are many more. Right now it doesn't matter which of the 400 billion systems you go to you have 4 choices - look at the pretty balls and scan them, dig up the rocks, shoot at ships, or trade. That's pretty much it. Powerplay doesn't change this, it only changes the outcomes (from credits to merits) - it's an attempt to give new motivation to do the same old activities in place of providing new activities and as has been shown it's a pretty unpopular strategy. Once you've had your fill of those four choices it doesn't matter how pretty the sky is or how many credits you have, it's pretty much just "rinse and repeat".

I'm yet to play a procedural generation game that doesn't feel repetitive after a short while - you are right about its what ED needs, and its what no mans sky will need, however my gut and experience tells me they will be overreaching and selling lies just like everyone else.

Would love to be surprised though
 
TLDR I think priorities with releasing on as much platforms as possible first are correct ones - FD needs to bank in on exposure it cannot get with their minimal PR budget. However not talking about future updates and not giving hints is start take toll on many backers and supporters (I personally think talking about next update after 1.1 and 1.2 was right way to do that, to keep people enganged). FD needs to find new way to talk to us about stuff they work on without promising too much. They neeed to try.

Don't think I agree with this, although I see the logic.

This could back fire, releasing the game across as many platforms as quick as possible to get the PR, because they then need to add the content that we feel is missing at the moment. That won't just be the content for the PC/Mac but also now the Consoles and it could be that one doesn't fit the other.

FD certainly need to let us know more about what will be coming in the future, and by this I mean what will be actually coming, not one of those "possible" "maybe". Let us know what's planned across all platforms.
 
This post may get removed but I am gonna write it as it is how I feel.

I believe we were seeing what was intended all along. I am beginning to feel they used the love for the 84 elite to hook us to beta test for what they meant to be their primary goal. Alot of the features here are more suited to a console environment, I think this was meant to go more for the console than it ever was for PC but they knew the PC crowd would make up more of the that loved the original and the genre. We were basically the funding due to make this.

The DDA/F feel more like they were a bait & switch as it was used to get the funding for this yet seems very little if nothing of what was there is making it into game with the way the updates look so far.

I hope I am wrong but it don't feel like it
 
This post may get removed but I am gonna write it as it is how I feel.

I believe we were seeing what was intended all along. I am beginning to feel they used the love for the 84 elite to hook us to beta test for what they meant to be their primary goal. Alot of the features here are more suited to a console environment, I think this was meant to go more for the console than it ever was for PC but they knew the PC crowd would make up more of the that loved the original and the genre. We were basically the funding due to make this.

The DDA/F feel more like they were a bait & switch as it was used to get the funding for this yet seems very little if nothing of what was there is making it into game with the way the updates look so far.

I hope I am wrong but it don't feel like it

Agree 100%...Have some rep.
 
This post may get removed but I am gonna write it as it is how I feel.

I believe we were seeing what was intended all along. I am beginning to feel they used the love for the 84 elite to hook us to beta test for what they meant to be their primary goal. Alot of the features here are more suited to a console environment, I think this was meant to go more for the console than it ever was for PC but they knew the PC crowd would make up more of the that loved the original and the genre. We were basically the funding due to make this.

The DDA/F feel more like they were a bait & switch as it was used to get the funding for this yet seems very little if nothing of what was there is making it into game with the way the updates look so far.

I hope I am wrong but it don't feel like it

Sure, they planned it for console all along - yet they added actual bounty paying and penalties for killing people, still have no shortcuts to jump around in galaxy, have even harder NPCs to kill...in release 1.3 just before XBO port beta launch. Heck, these things are hated by some PC players - as they make game 'tedious' for them - and now you say it's been planned for consoles?

It is ok to be worried but this doesn't make sense at all. Unless FD plan all along was to make console *hardcore* game (by console standards).
 
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Sure, they planned it for console all along - yet they added actual bounty paying and penalties for killing people, still have no shortcuts to jump around in galaxy, have even harder NPCs to kill...in release 1.3 just before XBO port beta launch. Heck, these things are hated by some PC players - as they make game 'tedious' for them - and now you say it's been planned for consoles?

It is ok to be worried but this doesn't make sense at all. Unless FD plan all along was to make console *hardcore* game (by console standards).

Dunno, the game seems pretty hardcore by PC standards to me. It's got an extremely steep early learning-curve because the interface is so fiddly. It feels a lot less populist than the original game. A bit of streamlining would be welcome. For me, the real danger is that it becomes a piece of impenetrable bloat-ware without adding any real depth.

I think Frontier have good intentions, but I worry people are thinking we're getting the DDF stuff when that simply isn't happening. Maybe some clarification would be appropriate.
 
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Dunno, the game seems pretty hardcore by PC standards to me. It's got an extremely steep early learning-curve because the interface is so fiddly. It feels a lot less populist than the original game. A bit of streamlining would be welcome. For me, the real danger is that it becomes a piece of impenetrable bloat-ware without adding any real depth.

I think Frontier have good intentions, but I worry people are thinking we're getting the DDF stuff when that simply isn't happening. Maybe some clarification would be appropriate.

DDF stuff is big FD mistake at communication. First, they failed to rein in on hype during beta period. Second, after that they explained that it is a wish list - ok, valid argument and doesn't invalidate work put into DDF. However after that it has been silence - except for 1.2 and 1.3 releases - regarding any new big features coming from DDF - except from Michael confirming some of them being on their todo list (and thus hinting they are working on them).

I *understand* they don't want to get nailed when stuff doesn't work out, but I think last weeks have shown that they have to communicate *something*.
 
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The DDF may have been a wishlist all along, but was not marketted that way. Didn't they change the name from 'Design Decision Forum' to 'Design Discussion Forum' midway? If so, very telling.

Lets not forget the Kickstarter campaign, the 'Dev Diaries' and the clear expectations they gave for what we would receive in return for our money: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous/description

Its totally understandable why people are complaining. I don't personally feel consoles are a bad thing. But of course FD must deliver on the expectations they gave in exchange for money, surely? The silence and previous 6 months hints they believe otherwise.
 
First time I've repped you Pecisk :) you are normally defending FD to the hilt in times past and it's surprising to see this weather change with this thread.

On the subject of the thread:

FD please listen! It's full of win!

You say you are making the game you want to play but I really wonder if that's the truth and not just a post publisher era marketing tagine at this point. The DDF describes an incredible game and it was written with great credibility by your designers in collaboration at points with the DDF members, it seemed to be the game "you wanted to play".

So many people here quote the DDF as the game they'd want also...so what's the harm in following it?? Listen to your players FD we know what we are talking about as we are playing it!
 
But I am torn.

And I am genuinely shocked.

You've been defending FDev to the hilt over the past few weeks Pecisk. That's fair enough - if you feel things are going well that's the right thing to do. But... wow. Even the most steadfast and forgiven of FDev fans are somewhat taken aback at developments it seems.
 
Good question - I think the answer is, at least for me, is no - I was having fun.
ED is starting to turn into a horrible grind fest now, and it appears that trading is the only real viable way of making credits - I really wanted to take part in Powerplay properly but as it is now, I can't afford too. It actually costs me money, All play styles need to pay properly - or at least tied to your own personal ranking.

Problem with trading is that this too is neither vibrant nor alive. I am doing the 100 Empire stations run (another thread) and lo and behold - the prices I get and the profits are practically exactly the same as the author of the thread mentioned - the prices haven't changed a bit over a couple of weeks ... Not even with PP on top of them ...
 
I'm in software development, and I understand the effort involved in making something this big and complex...

I'm on the hardware and networking side of things being a sysadmin, but have some development experience as well, so I can totally sympathise with the effort and difficulties of creating a product for others: the balance with the realities of costs and the pleasing the needs of the end user.

As critical as I am now of Frontier, it's not because I lack patience. I'm a customer, and bought into a certain description of this product. They have steadily stopped living up to that, changed the expected priorities, and have distanced themselves from the community. It seemed this attitude came about once the product no longer needed the support of crowd sourced backing to make it a reality.

...But I also understand that it's important to keep your stakeholders in the loop, and with this game we're all stakeholders, and I for one feel out of the loop. Keep us engaged and interested, and we'll continue to spend time (and money) on the game. Leave us out in the cold and we'll get bored, so when you release your expansion packs we might not be here to buy them. Acknowledge the game's deficiencies, don't hide behind corporate speak. Give us a roadplan, and don't be scared to change that roadplan or to leave bits out of it (we know how much you like your surprises). We'll understand. Just don't treat us like children, thinking that when you give us this big reveal (Powerplay or CQC) it's like you're being this benevolent entity bestowing wonders upon us. I'd prefer to be treated like a peer; share the ups and downs of development and we might surprise you by being supportive and understanding.

I've seen that shift enough times in various walks of life, as well as the gaming industry, to know what the reality behind that process is, so I'm not altogether surprised. But I am disappointed, specifically in David Braben, because I believed that he was sincere in his Kickstarter campaigning and would deliver the things he spoke about. Right now, I don't believe he will, but that's not why I'm not playing the game. That's just because it lacks any real content beyond the superficial illusions for me to really have any sense of continued progression for my commander.

The way I see it, I think I've reached the 'end' of what Elite: Dangerous has to offer, and if I want more, it's time to look at other games. However, if and when something of interest is added to this one, then I will pop back and partake, because I don't think it's a bad product. Far from it, it has huge potential in the right hands directing the development. For instance, the new CQC mode looks interesting to me as incorporating the best aspect of ED - the flying and combat.

It's a shame they have decided the PC community is not appropriate to test that mode, otherwise I'd love to try it now rather than wait six months. Instead, they've given us Powerplay, which is really nothing in terms of content. The rest of the pursuits in the game are worthless for a 2014 product: mining and exploring are pathetically simplistic and not worth the time in credits; salvage and scavenge are non-elements due to silly rules like "illegal cargo"; bounty hunting and smuggling are continually nerfed anytime they get interesting; and trading is something you do when you have insomnia.

The problem for Frontier is, commiting back to regular two-way communication with the supporters means being prepared to answer hard criticisms rather than the low hanging fruit. Love to be wrong, but I don't see that happening; not unless the game fails with the wider audience and they need the backers again to keep it alive.
 
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Hey, we actually agree one something :)

I think the XBox release is fine - especially if it injects more money in to the pot. Frontier need to keep their good developers, and hopefully hire a few more because Planetary Landings is going to be a BIG task.

I still think there is a lot of room for improvement from Frontier though.
 
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A company that doesn't listen to its customers is foolish in my opinion. It also makes me wonder how Powerplay might have evolved if there had been communication with Alpha/Beta backers and FD during its development. I really do think FD should talk more with its user base to at least pay lip service to some of the community wants.
 

Philip Coutts

Volunteer Moderator
I don't understand the decision making at Frontier in the slightest. Remember way back a lovely pilot called Isonona posted an amazing video of docking with FAoff at high speed to smuggle goods into a space station. It was epic and inspired loads of people to try the same thing (I myself recreated it perfectly...right up until I smashed into the space station!). The video was created when we didn't have the "bleed off" of speed in the FA off mode. What did Frontier do with this video? They put it in the newsletter, brilliant advertising, exciting gameplay and it really got peoples attention. Then Frontier nerfed the FAoff, introduced the speed bleed off and now we have speed limits at the docking slot. They took a beautiful piece of gameplay and tossed it in the bin. I couldn't for the life of me understand the decision making behind that at all.
 
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