Decrease their effectiveness on shields then. That way you still have to take some thermal weapons with you.
More AMMO please
- Thread starter Greccen
- Start date
Decrease their effectiveness on shields then. That way you still have to take some thermal weapons with you.
They wouldn't need to balance ammo storage, it has no gameplay impact its basically a quality of life change. Everyone who wants to use rails or frags already does, it just saves a trip back to station or means they don't have to save them for christmas on mars.
It might encourage some others to try out something other than multi-cannons though
It might encourage some others to try out something other than multi-cannons though
That's a good point too, the added weight would also be penalty enough to consider how much ammo you're actually taking.
You can strip shields with a thermal weapon of your choosing, I don't know why you feel a wingman is necessary for that. Taking frags out to an RES or nav point is the WRONG way to use them - 'staying in combat longer' is not among their uses. Taking them to an assassination is the RIGHT way to use them. This is what, the fifth time I've said this? Am I being at all unclear?I'd take that up if we do it per hourYou'd spend more time reloading at stations. Anyway, my point is that it is simply too situational and is only suitable for short engagements if you have another hardpoint/wingman to strip shields, and most people would just run multis/cannons since they take less power and can stay in combat longer.
Give it some way to reload out of a fight and I guarantee that it'll become a bit more common and gain consideration outside of niche pvp/assassination mission roles, which should be the case rather than railguns/lasers/multis/cannons are only viable weapons.
I think the issue is that while you are correct, and thats certainly how i've always used them, "the RIGHT way" needs to be changed to "the ONLY way", which is what people have beef with as its deliberately limiting without any real upsides.
So you make the distinction between "long fight" loadout and "assassination" loadout. It could be good, but people will then take assassinations missions in high tech stations only, where they can change their weapon easily and change them back when they want to do something else. When the loss on selling equipement back will be introduced, we better have a way to stock our equipement.
I use turreted frags as a defense on my Anaconda.
- - - Updated - - -
Really easy, just have an "Ammo cache" module like fuel or cargo and then you purchase the extra ammo you would like in the same way you would purchase limpets.
I was playing with my C2 points on my Asp and forgot I had switched from Multicannons to Frag. Came up against a Deadly Cobra, who was really, really good (thanks SJA), but I got his shields down with 4 Burst Lasers, then got ready to hit him with the MCs. Of course I had Frag. I was really close. Maybe 400m on his underside when I hit fire. The "bounty awarded" message was never more surprising! He just disintegrated. Lucky shot that did subsystem damage? Or just the fact that from that range every fragment hits something. One hit kill.
Do not mistake the versatility of its peers as ineptitude of the individual. In my opinion at least, everything else needs to become more narrow, the frag doesn't need to be more versatile.
Also, I don't know how you could make the frag cannon more versatile without making it completely overpowered. It is by far the most effective weapon at what it does, relative to how any other weapon performs in its strongest area.
This does not surprise me in the slightest. I highly doubt you took out the powerplant. I don't think people appreciate the sheer power of these things.
Last edited:
Frags are amazing at cracking cockpits, which I've had a long time suspicion instantly kills NPC's (as they don't have anywhere to go with life support)
If they change Frag ammo, please keep it a multiple of 3
So 3/99 better than 3/100
I'd rather say 4/100.
Its strongest area is shield damage for a kinetic weapon, for that tradeoff its unusable above 500m has herculean damage dropoff vs small targets and has the highest energy draw of a kinetic. It has enough downsides.
If your talking subsystem or hull damage its only the most effective if you can't hit with a cannon at 500m.... which would be pretty hopeless, the frontloads pretty good but its swings and roundabouts.
Last edited:
Well, to be honest, frags work like cannons for me. Sometimes you'll be sending divine punishment on your target and sometimes a space fly crashing on the windshield would do more damage. I suppose that it's a subsystem that takes the damage, but with the frags and its low ammo pool it becomes annoying when it happens.
Last edited:
The frag probably does a lot of damage to sub systems up close. But over a distace it's just the same as expecting a shot gun pellet to go through a car door.
Dropping this here, for everyone's easy access: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=140240
While the DPS vs shields of a frag may be the highest of all kinetic weapons, this is absolutely not its strongest area, considering how vastly more effective they are against hull, and their limited reserves.
Consider this: If frags had enough ammunition to do as much shield damage per rearm as multicannons, why would anything do anything else? They would be absolutely overpowered. Their ammo reserves are very intentional.
For a lot of people frags are too inconvenient to use. Everyone who has said so is absolutely right: they are not very versatile. They are pretty exclusively hull busters - you generally do not have enough to get through a fight if you use them against shields.
That does not make them bad or wrong. They are different. They do their job extremely well. I do not feel they need an ammo extension, I believe that people need to reign in their expectations.
Shot for shot and likely even kills per rearm against similar sized targets, frags absolutely beat cannons in this category. Cannons are better at taking down a greater number of larger prey. This is fine, this is their strength.
While the DPS vs shields of a frag may be the highest of all kinetic weapons, this is absolutely not its strongest area, considering how vastly more effective they are against hull, and their limited reserves.
Consider this: If frags had enough ammunition to do as much shield damage per rearm as multicannons, why would anything do anything else? They would be absolutely overpowered. Their ammo reserves are very intentional.
For a lot of people frags are too inconvenient to use. Everyone who has said so is absolutely right: they are not very versatile. They are pretty exclusively hull busters - you generally do not have enough to get through a fight if you use them against shields.
That does not make them bad or wrong. They are different. They do their job extremely well. I do not feel they need an ammo extension, I believe that people need to reign in their expectations.
Last edited:
Multi-cannons are used because they are accurate at range while still being kinetic, its very consistent damage as their projectile speed is vastly higher than frags or cannons.
Kills per rearm cannons would come up massively ahead, you can use 20 frag ammo on a conda to kill it, i can do the same with 3 cannon shots, on small ships cannons do very high hull damage too providing you can hit, which is the same problem frags face.
Frags beat cannons in two ways, shield damage and front-load, in every other way they are outclassed including hull damage, primarily because cannons instakill powerplants and at the range you need to be to compare to frags a powerplant hits almost certain.
Your arguments would work for rails, because rails are genuinely superior weapons that are limited by ammunition, frags are niche weapons (like missiles) that are limited by ammunition, the difference between the two seems similar, but infact is completely different.
Last edited:
Seems to me there is a bigger problem than ammo for frags around.... back in the cave troll. Sorry to say bud, but your opinion is not more important than anyone elses and by calling someone ignorant who only has a valid point of view just shows you up for what you are.
On the OP's subject, couldn't agree more. Limiting max ammo so much doesn't really do anything other than to stop people using them, if you want weapon balancing you change reload times or nerf ROF/Dmg output.
Last edited: