Wanted status for attacking "wanted" enemy

DahrAmahr

D
Greetings fellow commanders.

I don't believe this is a bug, therefore I'm not posting this on bug section. However I would like for your oppinions regarding this and maybe then we can try to convince Frontier to make this change.

Who of you have become wanted criminal for attacking a pirate in RES before he was fully scanned?

I don't think this makes much sense... if I get a message "Long joe: what are you hauling? - Bah no cargo?!" or something like that... then I see System Security attacking the guy who scanned me seconds ago... I mean c'mon just put 2 and 2 together... he;s a PIRATE ... but after attacking him before the scan was fully finished (ok yeah I'm trigger happy) I got wanted status as well... WHY? Have some common sense... furthermore if I'm in a wing with a friend and He already scanned the culprit and confirmed him being WANTED ... why I can't attack him before scanning him my self?

- CMRD DahrAmahr
 

Hell Razor5543

H
There have been numerous threads on this theme (I was attacked, I shot back, I am wanted?!? Why?!?). What you have to do is to WAIT until your sensors have fully scanned the attacking vessel. Basically what you HAVE to be able to do is to prove to the Authority vessels that the ships you attack are wanted, and this (in effect) is done via the black box system (so you have a recording of the incident in question). You certainly are not the first to complain, and you will not be the last.

However, the wing issue may (not sure, hence only may) be a bug. I believed that the wing system was meant to allow transfer data between wingmen (as well as a lot of other benefits). I do know (from experience) that when I am in an area where there are allied Authority vessels I get an instant update on any ships that they have scanned.
 

Stigbob

Stigbob
The only difference between a murderous criminal and a bounty hunter is that the bounty hunter confirms its legal to kill his target before he shoots.

It's not a bug it's impatience.
 

smiths121

S
I think the mechanism is OK, it took me a long time to stop getting bounties for this. I tend to go around with my turrets closed and put my K-warrant scanner/cargo scanner in a different fire group to guns, as I am an impatient man and this forces me to be patient.

My biggest problem now is when I have been interdicted in a trading ship and it takes time to kill a larger interdictor and the Feds turn up. I always seem to get interdicted with stolen or illegal cargo in my hold (those go to remote place and get black boxes etc). I always forget, and I always get fined. I have purchased an Adder with advanced sensors and a detailed discovery scanner, enough defence and firepower to take on up to a python (depending exactly on loadout and ranking) for these missions to remind me to run when the combat is over, rather than celebrate another mad python death!

I would hasten to add, I am Okish at Combat, its because allied with the local factions so the Fed turn up very quicly - honest!

Simon
 

DahrAmahr

D
heh, well YEAAAH ... I'm not complaining about the general idea... however in a particulary case when I see the AUTHORITY VESSELS attacking the guy whom I KNOW is a pirate... why wait? What's the point? He IS WANTED and a second after I shot him my scanner finished scanning and just confirmed the obvious. If I made a mistake and attacked an innocent (why would system authority vessels attacki him?) then I would take the blame and pay the fine gladly... even refund the repair cost of the poor star citizen I just wrecked a little bit. However if I was right to trust my gut and he WAS a badguy with bounty on his head... It's just plain stupid. Still I get hat Hell Razor was saying regarding having a proof for authority as to why I shot the guy... but the Chief Police Inspector of the system is on hot persuit and I was eager to help and I get slapped for doing it nano milisecond before system confirmed the obvious ;)

Well it probably will never change but I still believe it's a broken system... not from gameplay stand of view but common sense.
 

Alex Brentnall

Alex Brentnall
Best comparison I have seen is bounty hunters in the USA.
If they shoot a guy they think is a criminal without identifying him properly first and/or giving them a chance to surrender then they commit the crime regardless of who they are shooting.

Bear in mind I don't live in the US, have no idea how bounty hunters work. This is just from the last time this thread popped up.
 

furrycat

furrycat
Whilst I agree with OP that's it's frustrating to have to wait when you know the guy is wanted, and the case given of seeing him under attack by the Feds is a good example of when you would know, the lore says that an attack is only legal if a scan has been completed. So does the law.

I'm OK with the system working in a way that I personally don't like because we have explicitly been giving an in-universe reason for it.
 

DahrAmahr

D
yes, I get the idea when it's 1 on 1. But if the bounty hunter sees the criminal being chased by the police... should make things less complicated.

Yeah ok... I just read what furryCat Wrote and .. meh I guess it has to work for me "that's the law deal with it"
 
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Hell Razor5543

H
I have, on a few occasions, seen supposedly Authority vessels attacking clean vessels. What has happened is that a clean Authority vessel has, during an attack run, accidentally hit a friendly/clean vessel (which then gets the Authority vessel a bounty and wanted tag!), and then turned pirate. THIS is why you cannot assume a ship being attacked by a Authority vessel is wanted!
 
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Snowdog

S
I originally agreed with the first post but after reading the comments, changed my mind (a little) and can understand why I have to wait.

I am so tired of this line of reasoning, " this has already been talked about so your dumb for bringing it up again" and then, more times than not, the thread being moved into some ridiculously long waste pile by the moderating community. Most of us will not read a thread that is 500+ posts long, how can you not understand that? Please keep it in mind.
 

Debido

D
There is no reasonable reason for this utterly asinine system to be in place, all it does it prevent players from playing the game when they want to play because they have a stupid bounty on their heads.

If the devs don't have the time to fix this and properly implement a system to get around this little accidental blue on green actions, then they can send me the source code and I'll do it myself. It is completely unacceptable for something so simple to not get fixed when it completely discourages people from bounty hunting.

What is worse is they decided to remove the ability to pay off bounties! Words cannot describe how infuriating this is, before it was a huge inconvenience to have to go and dock at a station to pay off a bounty - NOW we cannot pay off a bounty at all.

If this is by design then I cannot comprehend what they are thinking other than "how can we infuriate our users" or "how can we make the game more grindy by putting in a needless cooldown system". Even the developers of Dark Souls aren't this masochistic, so I can only assume in the vast number of changes to the game they've been making they missed this.

Again, if the devs don't have time, I'll fix it for them.
 

Alex Brentnall

Alex Brentnall
Debido said:
There is no reasonable reason for this utterly asinine system to be in place, all it does it prevent players from playing the game when they want to play because they have a stupid bounty on their heads.

If the devs don't have the time to fix this and properly implement a system to get around this little accidental blue on green actions, then they can send me the source code and I'll do it myself. It is completely unacceptable for something so simple to not get fixed when it completely discourages people from bounty hunting.

What is worse is they decided to remove the ability to pay off bounties! Words cannot describe how infuriating this is, before it was a huge inconvenience to have to go and dock at a station to pay off a bounty - NOW we cannot pay off a bounty at all.

If this is by design then I cannot comprehend what they are thinking other than "how can we infuriate our users" or "how can we make the game more grindy by putting in a needless cooldown system". Even the developers of Dark Souls aren't this masochistic, so I can only assume in the vast number of changes to the game they've been making they missed this.

Again, if the devs don't have time, I'll fix it for them.
Click to expand...

Rage much. It was not implemented to "annoy" but to make the consequences for murder and assault actually mean something instead of "oh dear I have to return to the station again and instantly be forgiven for killing 80 of their favourite people"...

It takes about 10 seconds to scan at tops, learn to validate your target before going all Rambo guns blazing. I did been bounty hunting before 1.3 for over 40 hours in a single community goal and I think I had one friendly fire (or un-scanned fire) incident that whole time. Just pop over to the system next door if it happens and carry on your merry way there instead.
 
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Rauminen

R
Debido said:
There is no reasonable reason for this utterly asinine system to be in place
...
It is completely unacceptable for something so simple to not get fixed when it completely discourages people from bounty hunting.

...
before it was a huge inconvenience to have to go and dock at a station to pay off a bounty - NOW we cannot pay off a bounty at all.
...
If this is by design then I cannot comprehend what they are thinking ...
Click to expand...

No.

There's a reason, you're supposed to be playing a bounty hunter. Bounty hunters not just wait for the initial scan, they do KWS as well. If you are too impatient to do KWS you are not a bounty hunter.

It shouldn't discourage you, as you should be using KWS as a bounty hunter.

You only have to wait about 15 mins for an assault bounty - that time you can spend bounty hunting in a neighbouring system. If you have 2 systems within your jump range (odds are you do) then this is the solution.

This is what they meant. There's a profession called bounty hunting, where you help the local security forces to take down criminals. In this profession, you need to adhere to the law, and to maximize your profits use KWS. That's how bounty hunting works.

But I know what the real issue is. What you are after is military work. You are not a bounty hunter. You are a military commander, who enjoys fighting in a war. There is something for that, it is called combat zone. You go there, pick a side and you're set with automatically hostile ships, no friendly fire, no chance of getting bounties on your head (unless you chase them out of the zone) and of course no need to use KWS.

And if you are trying to maximize credits, it's not that bad now. They nerfed RES, and doubled the combat bond values. So there you go.
 

Debido

D
Assault? giving a love tap to their shield? Nonsense. Wanted criminals in the process of trying to pillage shouldn't even be allowed to lodge an assault claim in the first.

There is a clear delineation between bounty hunting and occasional mishaps, and people who are actively engaging in pirating. Infractions are no longer meaningful, they're now utterly stupid and frustrating for people trying to bounty hunt.

If you accidentally for whatever reason shoot the wrong ship and give a love tap to their shield and they're unwanted, a little "Hey! What are you doing!" over the comms.

If you accidentally damage their hull or systems etc. then request for compensation would be in order, and you could pay it on the spot direct to the NPC.

If you accidentally destroy a unwanted ship, then have the opportunity to pay the premium for replacement on the spot.

If however you start destroying a string of unwanted ships in a row and steal the loot without paying them compensation, then DUH, you're pirating. Not exactly rocket science to figure that stuff out with a couple of conditional IF statements. Then you can start bringing in meaningful consequences.

If there is one identified and know unwanted ship being attacked by a unknown ship, it is 100% a known wanted ship you can engage.

If an undentified ship says over the comms "this little scan isn't going to hurt" and has a pirate themed ship, you really need to scan it to know it's a pirate? really?

5 identified and friendly eagles from the system defense ships are taking on an unindentified anaconda, and the eagles are getting killed, you really need to sit on your thumb for 10 seconds and say "Sorry guys, can't help you out, I know you're dying and everything, but my hands are tied!". A simple broadcast by the system defence guys marking the wanted ship and there is never a need for a silly situation where you get fined for helping out.

The minimum bounty amount needed to mark a person for death needs to go way up, 200CR and you're fair game? Again doesn't make sense to any rational human being, why not instead punishments like the defence fleet guys using a limpet on your cargo door and take everything you have forcefully as compensation?

We're asking for a fair and reasonable criminal and punishment system that makes sense to any normal person, that way people role playing as pirates actually get consequences, and those playing in bounty hunting for FUN can enjoy it.

I reject the lazy defence of the current system with 'oh just wait 10 seconds you rambo warrior' as it is defending poor gameplay design, rather than acknowledging a flawed framework that unfairly punishes players for playing.
 

Magic Man

Magic Man
^ You are wrong, deal with it.

You can't just take someone out because you assume they are wanted. The scan gives you the legal all clear. Do the scan or deal with the consequences. Nothing is broke, it's not flawed, it works perfectly logically.
 
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Berty Dastard

Berty Dastard
I'm new to res combat, and combat generally, and I have now had this twice within the hour. After clearing my wanted status the first time I went back and got some bounties. After a few minutes I started getting only low bounties for my kills and noticed I was wanted again. Could this be due to attacking a wanted ship that was also in a wing?

I'm pretty sure I fully scanned but I'm not sure how you define that. I presume that if I see wanted against the target in the left panel that it is fair game. Or should I be looking for something else as well? Should I have a bounty scanner?

edit: just checked transactions in left panel and I notice I have 100 cr bounty and on the bottom line it says ON H-JUMP. Hyper jump? But what does it mean?
 
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