Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It used to be a problem - now that we can "reboot" systems it is no longer a problem.
Lessons in anti griefing.
- Thread starter Ghostickles
- Start date
It used to be a problem - now that we can "reboot" systems it is no longer a problem.
Thing is Robert - PvP-Pro's preying on completely new players who have absolutely no idea about rebooting, it is indeed still very much a problem
Thing is Robert - PvP-Pro's preying on completely new players who have absolutely no idea about rebooting, it is indeed still very much a problem
True, it happened to me too once and I self-destructed because I didn't know how to react. Duh.
Almighty Bob
Banned
1. Museum of modern art WOW.
2, Prestigious periodicals? name them and let us judge if we should 'leave it there'
3. Define griefing. Wisdom? I am laughing now
4. So the basis of your post may be flawed.
5.The rest of the post is valid, please do not wrap it up in rubbish.
Are you sure you played EVE and understand the game mechanics?
Let me clarify some for you:
- PVP in the "secure" space (secure i asssume is hisec) most of the time it's not voluntary, most of the time is the direct result of suicide ganks (for reference please consult eve-kill and see for yourself the alliance with most kills these months; most of the time is The Code with suicide ganks in hisec way more than wars in nullsec)
- when you lost a ship in EVE it's not mandatory to lose the escape capsule (pod in the EVE terms); the capsule hold your implants and in hisec (and lowsec by extension but in lowsec you can encounter a smartbombs camp) is almost impossible to be poded (lost the escape capsule), so losing implants is very improbable
- you say criminals are banished from "civilised" space; i assume to refer to hisec if that is your opinion, please read the river of tears caused by The Code alliance in hisec and James 315 the named saviour of hisec (disclaimer: i am big fan of this guy)
Last one: please define griefing and don't tell me shooting other players ships is griefing because it isn't in a game designed around ships with lazors, cannons etc (another disclaimer personally i don't shoot players starter ships like freewinders but anything up is fine).
Last edited:
As much as I want that to be true, it isn't. Where do you think Trammel came from?
Pre-Trammel UO will always hold a very special place in my gamer's heart. Best game ever.
And you know -why- Trammel came about? You know -why- every influential or important game since then has gone out of it's way to include non-pvp content? It's not because people cry, it's because people vote with their wallets and the elitist, pvp-centric games have repeatedly, constantly proved they don't fight in the same league, financially, as the so-called carebear games.
You want a slice of that lucrative player base, you don't listen and cater to *ONLY* the hardcore killer d00dz. It doesn't matter how loud any side cries, money talks, the end. Any of the hardcore PvPers here need to understand that. They're just not as important as they think they are. It's a stone cold fact.
There has been far too much catering to those easily upset in the community. If people really want to know what grief is try watching a loved one die in your arms. I can understand Braben's idea about making a game that people enjoy but this game is far too easy and there isn't enough jeopardy. Things only really have meaning and value if there is a challenge to over come. They've gone insanely over the top in attempting to protect everyone feelings and the anti EvE sentiment among some has been hysterical to put it mildly. The whole solo and private group system is a clear example of them bending over backwards to protect lil Johhny from his sensitivity- and DB has gone a tad overboard in anti 'griefing' comments..
No doubt there is stuff that we wouldnt want from EvE but I think the dev team could learn a few things from that game. Nothing wrong with taking good ideas from other games and improving upon them. I really don't buy the argument that some how the money is in creating carebear games. If CCP made an EvE game like Elite without the spreadsheets and point and click I'd play it in a heartbeat It's kinda what I was hoping for ED but alas it seems this isn't going to happen - so its back to the grind of shooting meaningless NPCs or space trucking.. :/
No doubt there is stuff that we wouldnt want from EvE but I think the dev team could learn a few things from that game. Nothing wrong with taking good ideas from other games and improving upon them. I really don't buy the argument that some how the money is in creating carebear games. If CCP made an EvE game like Elite without the spreadsheets and point and click I'd play it in a heartbeat
It's kinda what I was hoping for ED but alas it seems this isn't going to happen - so its back to the grind of shooting meaningless NPCs or space trucking.. :/
Last edited:
Have you ever tried Open Play too?
Cosmos - usually I agree with you in certain ways, but that is a bit harsh.
Most of us have been through that, I am sure. I had to mop up a good friend who got silly on a Gixxer. I cried for a week. If that is carebearing - then I am glad it exists. Pixels in video games count for absolutely nothing.
Most of us have been through that, I am sure. I had to mop up a good friend who got silly on a Gixxer. I cried for a week. If that is carebearing - then I am glad it exists. Pixels in video games count for absolutely nothing.
Aye, I have to agree with Asp there.
Yep, cannot argue against that at all. Prior to voting with their wallets, there was a fair bit of crying on forums going on, though. Almost as much as crying from the anti-Trammel crowd after introduction.
Bottom line was that many playing styles were entirely eradicated and replaced with stock- and treasure-piling styles, parading around in town where it felt that the only separator was how much bling characters could amass and wear openly.
And there's nothing wrong with that, people love to pay for bling parades. And if that gives them a feeling of accomplishment, in all seriousness, good on them.
The styles eradicated happened to include my favourite character style I enjoyed playing in UO. Actually, thinking about it, it eradicated two of them.
I had three "main" characters, including a classic blade-warrior with whom I co-founded an anti-PK guild (which incidentally had grown to be the largest guild on the server at the time) and a trader/alchemist/scribe character - my grind character to get the moniez for other adventures.
I had by far the most fun with my non-combat thief, though. Mainly snatching valuables via social engineering. Other than that, trying to snatch the odd valuable off of players by skulking around in the wilderness or in dungeons - and it was good fun to get yourself in place as non-combatant to begin with let alone escape after the deed.
Having said that, I fully understood the chagrin bank thieves and packy-slaughtering PKs caused and looked down on that style myself.
The one thing that made me appreciate UO was when my brother and I (we played together) ran into a PK for the very first time. And we ran for our lives. That thrill, the ecstasy of arriving within town borders and surviving the onslaught (with only a bunch of logs and planks in our packs to begin with) was mind blowing.
And then the form of camaraderie when you had to bond together to fight off the player villains. Won't get the same sense of accomplishments standing ground against incognito, probably NPC-driven evil.
In a no-risk & no-loss world you will never experience that. And that explicitly includes Elite: Dangerous with the only potential loss being a few credits to rebuy your specced-out ship which hardly hurts at all.
Disclaimer: I haven't reached top-tier ships, yet, might start to hurt when I get to fly bigger stuff than my DBS. But then again, I only lost one ship so far. Due to a piloting error.
And as a final point, it bothers me that posts like yours make it sound that every player who enjoys playing non-secure games are 1337-killer-d00dz or grief-4-lulz types. That simply is not true. We had a much more varied landscape of players playing interesting styles. From "Ima Newbie" via "Galad the Looter" styles, even players posing as a band of orcs and so many more. All of which are eradicated or made obsolete by making a game super safe.
And I reiterate again: I understand that the large majority of people prefer a safe game environment. Understanding that does not mean I may not remember the more varied, exciting and colorful "games of yore."
Last edited:
This is not entirely correct. I played UO in 1997,1998 and there was long discussions about PK problem in UO on Compuserve, on Usenet etc. After some time, the UO implemented mechanisms against griefing and mindless PKing.
PvP is OK, but there must be consent on both sides of PvP. To be normal player in average ship and be robbed and/or killed by role-playing pirate is fun. To be a newbie in first or second ship and be killed by someone in Python or Vulture is not fun.
It was kinda my point.. I think we are on the same page
Yet over the years I've had to endure the hysteria on these forums, and continuous personal attacks simply for expressing a view, whilst the direction of the game goes down a negative carebear path coz some can't stomach their ship being blown up. The amount of anti combat sentiment from many a KS backer was just baffling. We are now playing a game thats generally unchallenging, safe and cuddly, predictable, un-dynamic, and is filled with repetitive grinds.The use of the word 'griefing' to describe behaviour in a computer game is completely misplaced and erroneous. I had honestly never heard the word used until I joined the ED community but boy did some make up for that.
Last edited:
As someone who volunteered in UO I have a wealth of treasured memories too. I do want to make clear I'm not trying to directly criticise your post or the point of view and certainly not the great memories a lot of people have of other games. It's the trend of blaming 'crying' for game changes that bothers me. The increasingly angry and aggressive statements from those against those "opposed" to "crying" (and the yelling comes from all sides) just needs to stop if we, as a community as a whole, are ever to help Elite develop in any way.
Your reply, in particular this bit:
Just reinforces how polarised the various groups have become. I don't refer this point to your post, but it shows that too often there's no room for common ground or compromise in threads here. With extremism comes a lack of discussion and debate before the posting devolves into accusation and insults. As one side grows louder, the 'other side' feels they have to get louder or fear being drowned out in the calls for one feature over the death of another. I certainly haven't intended to imply that only grief-4-lulz players want difficulty or that 1337 players should be pushed out and if I ever have come across like that then I must apologise profusely! Indeed, I've repeatedly requested that all types of gamers, from the least skilled and least willing-to-lose up to the most skilled and hardcore be represented and included (though admittedly, I'd rather like it if the players that kill unwilling players for lulz be ousted, but that's purely opinion). A game like Elite is big enough and should be varied enough to all all sorts to play their way.
And this, while I want to agree with the point that we shouldn't see people make personal attacks against opposing views, is an example of how polarising language has become here. If it's PvE or not hardcore enough, it becomes 'a negative carebear path' and if it's too hardcore and difficult it's become 'a world for griefers and l33t doodz'. It gets us nowhere.
In the end, the content and the bulk of attention has to be matched to where the bulk of the playerbase will settle, even if that means taking it further away from personal preferences. As dedicated Elite fans, we should understand that and respect that and, once the bugs have been stomped on, support Frontier for doing that.
Last edited:
Well I guess we'll have to wait and see. There are other space sim games comming to market shortly so I suppose if ED doesn't offer the play style I want maybe one of those will. I do wonder sometimes what I misunderstood about a game marketed as the 'greatest sandbox ever created, in a cut-throat galaxy, set against a backdrop of raw anarchy and power plays..
If I was playing My Little Pony and went into the forest and started slaughtering players unicorns I could genuinely understand why they might get a tad upset, but Elite Dangerous. A game with a historic ranking system based upon mass killings, come on
Last edited:
I do believe that I like the way you think.
Thanks for the great exchange. Repped for that, mate.
Wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment of at least perceived increased extremism in view points. It does seem, though - and I am talking entirely from my own perception - that it is the loud, persistent and unyielding squeaky-wheeliness that makes producers react.
It's as if by discussing pros and cons in a calm, rational manner decision makers do not see a need to cater to such requests.
Rarely do the developers bend to the persistent squeaky-wheelness of users, it's often the producers and money-men that do that. That's sad, but I think Frontier is both developer and producer here, so they might just be able to hold their nerve and steer through the emotion. I guess we just have to hope that the sensible conversations, the decent discussions and the signal, rather than the noise, get through. The more signal, the more worthwhile the contributions we make, I have to believe that the more the powers that be will pay attention to us.
It's the idea that there's absolutely no room for anything other than cut-throat murder, anarchy and win-at-all-costs play that I object to. There -should- be room for that, but it can't afford to be all-encompassing. If Elite ends up not being what you want, I'll be sad (for reasons I explained in an earlier post), but I suspect that there will be room for what you want alongside what others want with only the slightest amount of compromise on both sides. Time, patience and constructive help is what Frontier needs from the dedicated fans.
...well, that and some announcements that aren't 98% content free...