Combat logging?

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Steve50

Steve50
Here's something I've been pondering on after a friend asked me a question I couldn't answer.

We all know combat logging against a human is very bad form indeed and is rightly a bannable offence.

But.. I was asked if combat logging against an npc ship could also get you banned. I was rather stumped and couldn't answer. After much pondering I guess maybe it should because you are still using an exploit to "cheat" the game.

Any thoughts on this?
 

GammaZ

G
It is still exploit, no matter how you use it. It is like cheating in either single player or multiplayer game.
But will it get you banned? Unlikely. Even in PVP. Because it is indistinguishable from just connection/hardware/software issues.
 
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Raf von Thorn

Raf von Thorn
GammaZ said:
It is still exploit, no matter how you use it. It is like cheating in either single player or multiplayer game.
But will it get you banned? Unlikely. Even in PVP. Because it is indistinguishable from just connection/hardware/software issues.
Click to expand...

"Indistinguishable":

[video=youtube;g9Efvg3K5Uk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Efvg3K5Uk[/video]
 

CMDR Derrida

C
Hi, combat logging is indeed bad, whether against a human player or npc, however, it's very hard to impose bans or penalties because not matter how evident it may seem on a video, like when the other player is losing at the time and vanishes, there is always that chance that there is a genuine reason. For example, for the first time in about seven years my street had a power cut last night and my game was cut off while fighting an npc Conda in the warzone - I doubt if that was a very happy Conda and he probably went and had a moan about me in the 'npc forums' ;)
Apart from this there are many social circumstances that could occur, rare on the whole, but statistically likely to happen to some of the many players, now and then: "Honey, if you don't get off that darned game right now, I'm filing for a divorce!". "Honey, did you leave the balcony door open upstairs again, little Timothy is up there playing alone".
My point is that for all the real combat logging and bad sportsmanship, ED can't impose bans as they are because 'real life' does get in the way, especially for those people who don't have the liberty to to see behind a computer screen with a week's supply of potato chips.
Furthermore, I am always very cautious about making accusations about combat logging until I have ruled out every other alternative, and even then I don't accuse, in case I have overlooked something. It's my impression that the people who are quickest to accuse are often the guilty parties themselves. When I watched a youtube channel by a known griefer and exploiter recently, I couldn't stop shaking my head at how quickly he was to accuse all his victims of combat logging, to his friend. I could see that, yes, some may have 'logged', however, he never stopped to consider that some may simply have 'system' jumped. My friend lost a brand new T7 to this guy inside a space station (when a 2 million rebuy was a big rebuy for us) but my friend did not log. However, that griefer still had the nerve to insult my friend afterwards and in then accuse another guy of logging, without checking his facts first. What I'm saying here, is, don't be too quick to accuse! - not everyone is a spoilt brat who can afford to spend all day playing elite and cry 'combat logger' whenever something doesn't go his/her way. Some of us have to grind in real life too :)
 

Battleship Kickass

B
Schmack said:
Neither is bannable nor should be. Sportsmanship isn't an EULA issue.
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It is an exploit so it is an EULA issue.

OP combat logging is the same against a human or NPC, an exploit/cheat. If you are found making unsavory exits too many times close to death you will be shadowbanned to a server you don't effect the normal Galaxy gameplay and cannot see players on the normal server in open. Supposedly.
 
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Derath

D
Versus an NPC you've got no chance of being caught, though equally I think you've got no chance of anything happening in multi-player either.

Some would consider it cheating, disappearing from a fight isn't much different from godmode for example. That being said if you were flying a T9 i'd understand anyway ;)
 

Ving

V
Steve50 said:
We all know combat logging against a human is very bad form indeed and is rightly a bannable offence.
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Erm, no. I don't know that. I do know that generalising is very bad form and will rightly get you ignored :)

Move along, nothing to see here...
 

Steve50

Steve50
Ving said:
Erm, no. I don't know that. I do know that generalising is very bad form and will rightly get you ignored :)

Move along, nothing to see here...
Click to expand...

I was going off what Frontier have previously said but that wasn't actually my question was it?
 

dayrth

Volunteer Moderator
dayrth
KaizoMK said:
Sorry I can't watch your video. But why is your ship blue and how do I blue ship?

On a note related to the topic, I feel that combat logging in solo is totally legit, although also totally a wussy move. Can't say anything about how it's handled by FD though.
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Take a look here: http://galnetnews.com/review/change-your-hud-colour/

Combat logging is an exploit no matter who it is against. An Ai is not likely to report you though. (or is it? Difficult to be sure with SJA :))
 

Distance

Distance
Ah the weekly "is combat logging justified thread?".

Short answer no, long answer you can get away with it in solo as no one will report you. The longer answer is fd says it's an exploit but even if you video someone doing it multiple times and send it to fd (the same with someone cheating) they won't do anything about it.

I don't get how people are allowed to discuss using an exploit on the official game forums. If we had a weekly "is hacking justified?" thread and I'm sure the mods would shut that down instantly.

This is why combat logging is so rampant, no one takes action against it or the discussions advocating it and it's killing the game.
 

KaizoMK

KaizoMK
Distance said:
Ah the weekly "is combat logging justified thread?".

Short answer no, long answer you can get away with it in solo as no one will report you. The longer answer is fd says it's an exploit but even if you video someone doing it multiple times and send it to fd (the same with someone cheating) they won't do anything about it.

I don't get how people are allowed to discuss using an exploit on the official game forums. If we had a weekly "is hacking justified?" thread and I'm sure the mods would shut that down instantly.

This is why combat logging is so rampant, no one takes action against it or the discussions advocating it and it's killing the game.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, it is difficult to punish it due to circumstance. If ED forced ship persistency for any short amount of time after logoff, those that lose connection (or attempt to combat log) will rage that they died without the ability to protect themselves, and rightly so when the penalty for death is heavy as it is. But if dc=disappear, we also have an unfair method of avoiding death that further discourages PvP and open play.

Frankly, I would be okay with a 15 second period where ships stay logged in even if the server connection is cut (possibly only applying to open play.) It'll suck if you have connection issues, but in a fair fight that'll likely be enough to keep you alive, and in a fight you would die in anyway....well the opposing player gets his reward and you die, sorry. I think overall it'll be a positive.
 

GammaZ

G
Ship staying in space for some amount of time, possibly different for pvp and non-pvp combat is probably the best solution, yes...
But there is also problem with how game works... it will not be that easy to implement, if even possible, with current p-t-p multiplayer...
 

Distance

Distance
KaizoMK said:
Unfortunately, it is difficult to punish it due to circumstance. If ED forced ship persistency for any short amount of time after logoff, those that lose connection (or attempt to combat log) will rage that they died without the ability to protect themselves, and rightly so when the penalty for death is heavy as it is. But if dc=disappear, we also have an unfair method of avoiding death that further discourages PvP and open play.

Frankly, I would be okay with a 15 second period where ships stay logged in even if the server connection is cut (possibly only applying to open play.) It'll suck if you have connection issues, but in a fair fight that'll likely be enough to keep you alive, and in a fight you would die in anyway....well the opposing player gets his reward and you die, sorry. I think overall it'll be a positive.
Click to expand...

It's simple to discourage combat logging and cheating. If someone has multiple video evidence against them using exploits like that then fd wipe their save, second time a wipe and a shadow ban. Word would still get around and people wouldn't risk it.

You can argue the "what if I have a powercut" all you like but that would be a rare occurrence. If you catch someone on video combat logging or cheating multiple times by multiple players then they should be punished. Right now all anyone gets is a slap on the wrist (if that) and that's why it's so rampant. Also having the ability to condone and defend it on the official forum doesn't help matters either.
 

Ving

V
These threads also rarely have a definition of "combat logging" which also makes the discussion rather meaningless.

Is it just:
- killing your connection via OS or hardware
- killing the game process via OS

Or is "Escape | Save and Exit" included as Combat Logging? The 15 second timer would imply not, as this appears to be its own combat logging penalty (like many other MMOs).

Anyway, these threads are essentially pointless without some comment or references from FDev.
 
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