Jettison (abandon) shouldn't exist

[jabokai]

If the game had the, originally planned, declaration of piracy along with associated pirate rep (and other stuff), then this wouldn't even happen - or it might but not if the person wanted to be an actual pirate with reputation factors with various stations/factions/markets.

i.e. Declare piracy, both options do the same thing - eject "stolen" cargo, pirate gets pirate rep, etc. If the pirate did as now - just verbally ask for an abandon, they may get it but the game mechanism would not award any actual piracy good stuff.

But, that was something else we have lost along the way.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is the correct attitude to have.

I've always asked for abandoned even before the 20t limit because I'm always open for negotiation.

If you ask for abandoned, where's the room for negotiation?

You should expect jettisoned, and then the room for negotiation is changing that to abondoned

 

[Vasious]

As you only believe in baby seal clubbing "pvp", how can you even bring up the concept of "fair"?

total hypocrite, and sociopath.

So, from someone saying "hey cargo bombs perhaps not a good idea as it seems unfair for *anyone* to have an auto kill weapon"
You conclude that that are *only* into sealing clubbing and they are a Hypocrite & sociopath.

That is certainly a reasonable

From that the only sane thing is for Trader to have a auto kill pirate (PC or NPC) buttton as any pirates are so immoral they must be punished for playing the game.
Shall traders making a loss on sales be banned too?

Since you are the only arbiter of what is actually fair in the world, we shall have to wait on your divine judgement of great one.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Back on the topic at hand:

Why would it NOT make sense that if a NPC/Player gets interdicted any cargo he drops at that location is considered "illegal"?

Why would it NOT make sense to have interdictions made against non-wanted targets to be an illegal act that impacts the pirate?

Why would it be a "bad" thing to give pirates non-lethal tools and options so they can BE proper pirates?

Yes, in this case im completely ignoring the famous Logoffski maneuver some people use to leave the universe completely - Im talking logical mechanics to improve and make more LOGICAL gameplay.

And please, traders and pirates alike - keep agendas and prejudice out of this.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

I agree completely. It's an out-of-character function used to give cargo to friends, and it's abuse of the system to demand abandoned cargo. I'd rather self-destruct than give abandoned cargo to pirates.

 

[Vasious]

i'd like a third option to jettison and abandon - cargo that outwardly appears abandoned, but has a 5% chance of being booby trapped. if you pickup any of the unlucky 5% cargo, you get a couple of minutes grace, then about 2 seconds warning, and then your ship is destroyed - regardless of size and equipment.

a 95% chance of a clean haul is pretty good odds, right?

Only if the same bombs has a 5% chance of, each jump, going off accidentally in the cargo hold of the trader then their ship is destroyed - regardless of size and equipment

At the end of the day, cargo bombs will only have you killed, because people have memories that survive insta kill weapons

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

As you only believe in baby seal clubbing "pvp", how can you even bring up the concept of "fair"?

total hypocrite, and sociopath.

Socio-path for the profession with the most player interaction sounds a little contra-dictionary doesn't it?

 

[Vasious]

Back on the topic at hand:

Why would it NOT make sense that if a NPC/Player gets interdicted any cargo he drops at that location is considered "illegal"?

Why would it NOT make sense to have interdictions made against non-wanted targets to be an illegal act that impacts the pirate?

Why would it be a "bad" thing to give pirates non-lethal tools and options so they can BE proper pirates?

Yes, in this case im completely ignoring the famous Logoffski maneuver some people use to leave the universe completely - Im talking logical mechanics to improve and make more LOGICAL gameplay.

And please, traders and pirates alike - keep agendas and prejudice out of this.

As to doing away with Abandon

I like having the option to jettison or abandon, knowing that there is a price difference for when it comes to the pirate collecting the cargo
Gives you some options.
If I am going to Abandon over Jettison, what is in it for me?

Plus Why should I have to Friend, then Wing up with someone to transfer cargo, that is additional steps to the process.

 

[Battleship Kickass]

Yes pirates make too much money this is definitely needed. It's not like it's the trader's choice whether he jettisons or abandons the cargo.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Yes pirates make too much money this is definitely needed. It's not like it's the trader's choice whether he jettisons or abandons the cargo.

Is it a choice with a gun at his head?

It's essentially an extortion racket where the victim cant even call the police afterwards and get a pirate wanted for his crime of piracy.

You are missing the point completely.

 

[Battleship Kickass]

Is it a choice with a gun at his head?

It's essentially an extortion racket where the victim cant even call the police afterwards and get a pirate wanted for his crime of piracy.

You are missing the point completely.

He can't call the police even if he doesn't jettison the cargo if the pirate plays correctly. Any other genius knowledge to drop?

 

[Iskariot]

It was a requested feature to allow friends to share cargo. But I can see how it can be abused by pirates. Not sure what the solution is - maybe it should only work for people on your friends list or in a wing, but even that could be abused too.

A solution might be to make the difference between the two types of cargo only become visible after 5 minutes or so after the pirate has scooped the cargo up.

Why after all would cargo floating in space tell you it is illegal cargo that is floating in space. It is just cargo.
After taking it on board you will have to scan the containers to see if there is still an owner tag. Only then the legal status will become clear. The cargo itself will not tell you it is illegal. You will only find that it has an owner tag that will have to be illegally removed on the black market. Not being the owner yourself the illicit nature of it is implied.

When 'walking around ships' is in the game I can imagine cmdrs going to their cargo hold with a hand held scanning device to scan the cargo and check on the tags.
That way this mechanic could be tied in with the fpa experience and get a bit of depth and realism.

 

[Distance]

If you ask for abandoned, where's the room for negotiation?

You should expect jettisoned, and then the room for negotiation is changing that to abondoned

There's room for negotiation as If I ask for 30t I only ask for abandoned after I've stated the amount I want so the trader could say 20t abandoned and most of the time I'd take it.

So, from someone saying "hey cargo bombs perhaps not a good idea as it seems unfair for *anyone* to have an auto kill weapon"
You conclude that that are *only* into sealing clubbing and they are a Hypocrite & sociopath.

Trapped cargo has been around since the ddf and I hope they implement it just not to the extremes that you're proposing.

Yes pirates make too much money this is definitely needed. It's not like it's the trader's choice whether he jettisons or abandons the cargo.

If I didn't know who you were I would have pointed and laughed

 

[Glenn Ross]

Back on the topic at hand:

Why would it NOT make sense that if a NPC/Player gets interdicted any cargo he drops at that location is considered "illegal"?

Why would it NOT make sense to have interdictions made against non-wanted targets to be an illegal act that impacts the pirate?

Why would it be a "bad" thing to give pirates non-lethal tools and options so they can BE proper pirates?

Yes, in this case im completely ignoring the famous Logoffski maneuver some people use to leave the universe completely - Im talking logical mechanics to improve and make more LOGICAL gameplay.

And please, traders and pirates alike - keep agendas and prejudice out of this.

Personally I could go with a much longer time where your ship is still in the game after you have logged off. My internet connection is pretty bad, but I have still only had a couple of times where I have been disconnected mid game so that would not bother me and would help against the combat loggers.
.
Everything else seems workable, if FD can put the effort in.
.
As a trader, I have yet to be interdicted by a reasonable pirate. They must be a dying breed, as all I ever get is the old "Drop your cargo or [and] die" brigade. If I ever do meet a decent pirate, and they ask for a REASONABLE portion of whatever I am currently carrying, they most certainly will get it abandoned rather than jetisoned because it makes no difference to me - lost cargo is lost cargo after all - and why wouldn't I IF I have enjoyed the experience. Make it fun for me, and I'll reward you. Make it tolerable, and I'll jettison something. Be a berk, obnoxious, or greedy, and you get to increase your bounty slightly and the 'excitement' of chasing down and destroying a garbage scow.
.
And yes, I do play in open, thank you very much.

 

[Colonel North]

It's all part of the negotiation - the pirate cannot *make* the trader do anything.

Really? By your reasoning the trader would be 'negotiating' if they offered stolen or combat logging.

It is what it is. A poorly implemented game mechanic being exploited

For the record I have no issue with pirates on this. The pirate is quite right to want the best payout deal possible so they are not at fault.

The goods are stolen and handling them is part of the pirate roleplay. Its not good for the game if this makes pirating unprofitable so to balance black market prices could be better and the daft 20t drop limit removed.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There's room for negotiation as If I ask for 30t I only ask for abandoned after I've stated the amount I want so the trader could say 20t abandoned and most of the time I'd take it.

So it's like:
Drop 30t!
How about I abandon 20t?
Deal!

 

[Distance]

Personally I could go with a much longer time where your ship is still in the game after you have logged off. My internet connection is pretty bad, but I have still only had a couple of times where I have been disconnected mid game so that would not bother me and would help against the combat loggers.
.
Everything else seems workable, if FD can put the effort in.
.
As a trader, I have yet to be interdicted by a reasonable pirate. They must be a dying breed, as all I ever get is the old "Drop your cargo or [and] die" brigade. If I ever do meet a decent pirate, and they ask for a REASONABLE portion of whatever I am currently carrying, they most certainly will get it abandoned rather than jetisoned because it makes no difference to me - lost cargo is lost cargo after all - and why wouldn't I IF I have enjoyed the experience. Make it fun for me, and I'll reward you. Make it tolerable, and I'll jettison something. Be a berk, obnoxious, or greedy, and you get to increase your bounty slightly and the 'excitement' of chasing down and destroying a garbage scow.
.
And yes, I do play in open, thank you very much.

Drop cargo or die is pretty much how pirates have learned to operate due to combat logging and high wake jumps. It's nothing personal. we also only a few seconds in each encounter to work with so that's why the "piracy request" is pretty damn blunt.

[video=youtube;EJRS9nTyHcQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJRS9nTyHcQ[/video]

Really? By your reasoning the trader would be 'negotiating' if they offered stolen or combat logging.

It is what it is. A poorly implemented game mechanic being exploited

For the record I have no issue with pirates on this. The pirate is quite right to want the best payout deal possible so they are not at fault.

The goods are stolen and handling them is part of the pirate roleplay. Its not good for the game if this makes pirating unprofitable so to balance black market prices could be better and the daft 20t drop limit removed.

The black market is another can of worms and tied with smuggling. The black market we have right now is pure fencing. There really should be a proper black market where supply and demand worked properly as well as fencing fees. This way sometimes it would be possible to get over market price for goods that are stolen or illegal is there's a high demand for them in a system.

I don't see this changing anytime soon as the normal markets are static and the in game trade tools are woeful at best.

 

[Teklow82]

WAIIIIIIIT a secound.. there player pirates out there that actually speak and take time to type out demands...

screenshots or i dont believe it .. LOL

Nice to here some player pirates do this

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Speaking as a trader, I believe negotiation is possible using the jettison/abandon system.

For instance, let's say the Pirate demands 10 tons, you could negotiate to drop 10 tons jettisoned or 6 tons abandoned.

The Pirate then has a choice between a smaller safer cargo, or a larger stolen one.

It's possible some good RP could come from this.

Having said that, they'll get my cargo from my cold dead corpse, and not before...not that my A grade Python gets interdicted much

What's to stop the pirate saying - "no deal, 10 tons abandoned or I kill you anyway for teh lulz?"

In most cases the trader will not have any form of advantage of avoiding death if he doesn't do whatever the pirate demands - the boost away trick might have worked - but now you've told everyone, pirates will be waiting for it. Negotiation? He's a PIRATE, and seeing as the old adage "you can only milk a dead cow once" simply doesn't apply here; because they know you're going to get another life, there's no reason to spare the trader other than some form of self imposed RP "Code of Honor" - which I honestly doubt many of them have.

 

[Distance]

WAIIIIIIIT a secound.. there player pirates out there that actually speak and take time to type out demands...

screenshots or i dont believe it .. LOL

Nice to here some player pirates do this

Well there's video evidence in my last post

Unfortunately people like to say "pirate" when they mean "random player killer" so it's given the profession a much worse reputation than it deserves.