Power Play - Weapon balancing - Good job

[GluttonyFang]

Well said.

Power play is a tiny part of Elite. That could have messed up the balance with an arms race and so far it hasn't. I think that's a good thing.

Okay, so you are arguing for the political sense of PP instead of the Meta chasing people. I have no information on your PvP record, so the following may be speculation.

Like I said before, only two weapons are competitive in a PvP sense, and with that being the case, meta players are going to all defect/rejoin said factions to remain competitive in the game.

I think what matters to them is not the political sense (of course you can call it the big picture, but should be aware of that bias), but the weapons those factions offer (again, this is the meta player's bias). So when people who chase after meta/want to be competitive gets a falsely advertised burst laser that supposedly take down shield extremely fast by sacrificing hull damage capabilities, people have every right to be angry, at least I believe so.

To these players, the weapons are the "big picture." Despite it perhaps not being to your preference of what is important in Elite.

 

[Battleship Kickass]

You need to take the "special weapon" blinkers off and read through the faction briefs and attach yourself to the one that will benefit yourself and your own goals... the "special weapon" is just a bit of side fluff

it's the biggest mistake being made at the moment

You seem to have missed where you blaze your own trail in this game. If someone's goal and benefit they are looking for from PP is to get all or certain PP modules then they are not making a mistake at all now are they? If the rewards were not as they expected then them being upset is just as justified as for any update that doesn't pan out to what you expected.

 

[GluttonyFang]

You seem to have missed where you blaze your own trail in this game. If someone's goal and benefit they are looking for from PP is to get all or certain PP modules then they are not making a mistake at all now are they?

Precisely my point.

 

[LeetNoob]

You need to take the "special weapon" blinkers off and read through the faction briefs and attach yourself to the one that will benefit yourself and your own goals... the "special weapon" is just a bit of side fluff

it's the biggest mistake being made at the moment

Oh I'm sorry. Please tell me more about how we're playing the game wrong. Thank god you showed up and stopped us from not following the 'faction briefs'.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Like I said before, only two weapons are competitive in a PvP sense, and with that being the case, meta players are going to all defect/rejoin said factions to remain competitive in the game.

You mean the Hammer and Advanced PA, right?

I do know that the stats shows that the new versions do more damage, but this is only because the delay is shorter to fire the next one (e.g.: Hammer, a burst of 3 shots, then 1.66s until you can shoot the next burst instead of 2s for a regular railgun). But railguns and PA are not something you shoot continuously (energy consumption, heat...)
in the end, these basically fire 3 shots instead of a single one, each 3 times weaker.

So these are alternatives, nothing overpowered, and keep the balance.
I personally prefer to stick with the regular railgun since I do not believe i will be able to keep the crosshair on that tiny module for the whole burst.



Now for those with the extra power or who want to save a higher class slot or utility mount, the Prismatic shield is indeed a must have...

 

[Ben Ryder]

Hey! guess what. I can get my shiny new gun now and build my Cobra and the stash it with my other ships for special occasions and that's enough for me. Why are people rambling on so hard about these little guns. It's the best bit about them, they don't spoil Elite.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Hey! guess what. I can get my shiny new gun now and build my Cobra and the stash it with my other ships for special occasions and that's enough for me. Why are people rambling on so hard about these little guns. It's the best bit about them, they don't spoil Elite.

Enjoy your Elite Dangerous experience, while it isn't destroyed by FD.

I hope some degree of your delight and felicity influence our sorrow and anguish positively.

 

[Ben Ryder]

You mean the Hammer and Advanced PA, right?

I do know that the stats shows that the new versions do more damage, but this is only because the delay is shorter to fire the next one (e.g.: Hammer, a burst of 3 shots, then 1.66s until you can shoot the next burst instead of 2s for a regular railgun). But railguns and PA are not something you shoot continuously (energy consumption, heat...)
in the end, these basically fire 3 shots instead of a single one, each 3 times weaker.

So these are alternatives, nothing overpowered, and keep the balance.
I personally prefer to stick with the regular railgun since I do not believe i will be able to keep the crosshair on that tiny module for the whole burst.

View attachment 49443

Now for those with the extra power or who want to save a higher class slot or utility mount, the Prismatic shield is indeed a must have...

Ugh stats. What next? Please dont go there. Its so yesterday.

 

[CMDR Malkov]

Hey! guess what. I can get my shiny new gun now and build my Cobra and the stash it with my other ships for special occasions and that's enough for me. Why are people rambling on so hard about these little guns. It's the best bit about them, they don't spoil Elite.

You seem the kind of person, Ben, whose cheery attitude and whimsical take on things rarely gets dented. It's an enviable quality but not one most people can easily achieve.

I don't think anybody in their right mind wanted the PP weapons to upset the overall balance in game, or expected them to. Some probably hoped that something a little OP would slip through the net for a while. So in a way you are right, it's a fuss about nothing and all is good in the galaxy.

So why all the anger and frustration about these little guns? I think there are a few things that have got people tetchy,

- Some people have put up with the extra grind that PP seems to force on them and just wanted a cookie.
- Some people see it as a missed opportunity or waste of development time as most of the weapons will rarely if ever be used.
- Some people sense a continuing bias and feel they have once again be kicked in the teeth for daring to choose the 'bad guy'.

It makes no difference to my own enjoyment of Elite really but I do have some sympathy with the second argument. It just seems that a little more time/testing/imagination could have produced modules that would have pleased many players without harming any overall balance.

 

[Ben Ryder]

You seem the kind of person, Ben, whose cheery attitude and whimsical take on things rarely gets dented. It's an enviable quality but not one most people can easily achieve.

I don't think anybody in their right mind wanted the PP weapons to upset the overall balance in game, or expected them to. Some probably hoped that something a little OP would slip through the net for a while. So in a way you are right, it's a fuss about nothing and all is good in the galaxy.

So why all the anger and frustration about these little guns? I think there are a few things that have got people tetchy,

- Some people have put up with the extra grind that PP seems to force on them and just wanted a cookie.
- Some people see it as a missed opportunity or waste of development time as most of the weapons will rarely if ever be used.
- Some people sense a continuing bias and feel they have once again be kicked in the teeth for daring to choose the 'bad guy'.

It makes no difference to my own enjoyment of Elite really but I do have some sympathy with the second argument. It just seems that a little more time/testing/imagination could have produced modules that would have pleased many players without harming any overall balance.

Well said and I feel for the people who spend the last month doing stuff to no end. It really sucks and I hope they can get past it and get back to looking at the game as a whole. Thanks for the kind words. I'm a glass half full kind of person (actually with a couple of bottles and a stack of pop corn always near by).

I never did mind about the little things

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Hey! guess what. I can get my shiny new gun now and build my Cobra and the stash it with my other ships for special occasions and that's enough for me. Why are people rambling on so hard about these little guns. It's the best bit about them, they don't spoil Elite.

You remind me of the right kid in this video. I have to admit me and others show behaviour similar to the kid to the left, however whilst the right kids positivism is adorable, the left ones reaction is rather understandable.

The modules are supposed to be a reward. That doesn't require them to be overpowered, just a flavour version coming in various sizes would have sufficed - there: Not overpowered but at least not completely useless like some of them are.

Considering the complaints about them being small: The four ships I've flown and still fly during the last 5 months have 22 hardpoints - two of them are small. So you suggest I fit two completely useless modules with which are worse than preexisting ones in almost every aspect whilst having higher fitting requirements and am enjoying my "reward" and the fact that they're not overpowered?

Yeah - right.

My power has other advantages and I didn't expect much from the module to begin with, so it's not the end of the world and at least it keeps the module farmers away, but the reason why frontier came up with modules like the Lance, Cytoscrambler or Mahons hair dryer at all is beyond me.

 

[Ben Ryder]

True!

I am so like the kid on the right.

I get the complaints and they are well and truly reasonable. The bit I found joy in was that FD didn't say here comes Christmas and dish out stuff that will make the game unplayable for non Power Players and for new players.

Side tracking again. He you pledged to the Power not to to the gun? Right?

Yes it keep s the module farmers away! Great stuff I say!

Yes it keeps the mini-maxers away! Great stuff!

 

[IronGremlin]

Personally I could care less about faction rewards and am just downright pleased that Frontier is experimenting with weapons that do things more complex than just dealing damage.

Makes me think that more neat toys will be on the horizon.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Yes it keeps the module farmers away! Great stuff I say!

Yes it keeps the mini-maxers away! Great stuff!

How does this keep module farmers away? The current best Weapon/Module are Prismatic/Hammer/Plus, every module farmer will simply defect and join those factions, if anything this really hurts the "bigger picture" that you want other people to see and enjoy.

Min-maxers fall into the category above.

This, if anything just tells min-maxers that they can't trust FD and encourages power hopping.

Think about it, if weapons are equally balanced for their utility and prowess, people will not think of it as much of an imperative to hop to the most powerful weapon faction (Disparity is gigantic as it is).

 

[thorn-]

It's okay, but you've missed my point. My point is not about the grind (not even a little bit.. not even a tiny tiny bit), my point is simply about not dishing out large weapons and unbalancing the game.

Offering better weapons and ships to players than spend far more hours playing than others is not "imbalance".

No more that real life. Those that work harder, can generally expect a better reward.

Working extra hours for a pretty laser that does nothing more than a common laser ANYONE can purchase... that's not "balance". That's just poor game design; ie, rewarding effort with Nothing.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Offering better weapons and ships to players than spend far more hours playing than others is not "imbalance".

No more that real life. Those that work harder, can generally expect a better reward.

Working extra hours for a pretty laser that does nothing more than a common laser ANYONE can purchase... that's not "balance". That's just poor game design; ie, rewarding effort with Nothing.

Agreed.

It's very simple, like everything else, exploit the human nature.

Seeking of pleasure and avoidance of punishment. Pleasure in this sense is some sort of reward (Power Play faction weapon/conviction of a faction's ethos/something someone finds rewarding). No one would grind if there is not some sort of reward waiting at the end.

The equality suggested in this thread is an inequality. People putting in less time and effort into the game should not be rewarded equally with people who dedicate their time to the game. The worst form of equality is inequality forcefully made into equality.

However, people who don't put in as much time as others and still purchased the game feel punished for not playing the game, thus calling for a "false equality" (Yes I'm biased I am aware). This "false equality" will level the playing field for them, and also compensate for their lack of dedication toward the game, thus a reward.

Very very simple concept, the true issue is FD's attitude of trying to reach out to as many audience as possible with no consideration of any sort of recoil/repercussion (trying to appease everyone = everyone unhappy).

This is what we are dealing with right now, and the reason for reaching out to a large audience is no other than... you guessed it... Revenue.

Does this make FD a demon/inhumane monster? No, a company should go after revenue, and everything that company does should secure/increase its revenue gain. But it doesn't change the present circumstance: an unhappy/severely fragmented community and players feeling disenfranchised.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

True!

I am so like the kid on the right.

I get the complaints and they are well and truly reasonable. The bit I found joy in was that FD didn't say here comes Christmas and dish out stuff that will make the game unplayable for non Power Players and for new players.

Side tracking again. He you pledged to the Power not to to the gun? Right?

Yes it keep s the module farmers away! Great stuff I say!

Yes it keeps the mini-maxers away! Great stuff!

As I said I understand your point for them not being must-haves except for the shields - and they might prove to be a curse for Aisling.

However a pledge reward should be a reward, not a troll.

Of course I've pledged to the power, not the module, but I'm in the process to make a cost efficient plan to exit my power, be as detrimental to the disliked powers whose modules I want as possible and then return stronger than before, ideally having hurt my enemies from within.

As I continuously stated during bata testing I still think power specific modules are an outragously stupid idea and I would have preferred if FD had invested manpower into increasing the overall modules variety, but FD make the game they want to play, so I adapt.

 

[Ghostickles]

My favorite part:
'I got a laser shotgun, but I cried because I have to use it at close range for maximum effect.'

 

[CMDR Malkov]

My favorite part:
'I got a laser shotgun, but I cried because I have to use it at close range for maximum effect.'

What! Who got the laser shot gun? I want one...

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

My favorite part:
'I got a laser shotgun, but I cried because I have to use it at close range for maximum effect.'

Well, I'd love to use the regular shotguns (frag cannons) but their ammo is drastically too limited.
The Cytoscrambler is, I agree, some kind of laser shotgun and comes with unlimited ammo, however, well, how to say...have you even tried it?