The fundamental problem with Power Play

[Ziljan]

Strategy is meaningless to individual pilots. Your power falls in the galactic standing? You still make 5M credits that week. Your power's influence expands by 5 systems and gets shot up to #2? You still make 5m credits that week. What is the point of the galactic standing? Why are we supposed to care about our power's success or failure? If you are rank 3 and above, you are immune to Galactic Standings. If you are rank 2 and below, you probably don't care that much about PP anyway.

The only benefit to being in the top 3 is that you can buy a useless module even if you barely participate. This is a ONE TIME BENEFIT because really, how many shields do you need? So where is the longevity for keeping interest in strategy? What was FD thinking when they designed the PP benefits mechanics? That tribalism was enough to keep it going? I guess it works for sports, but this is a space sim where people care about money, ships, abilities, etc.

Currently, I am just undermining random nearby Imperial systems to collect my 5M per week. There is really no point to fortifying or worrying about expanding etc. Winters is just treading water, and I see no reason to expand or worry about collapse. My power could be rank 7 or it could be rank 1 and the only difference to my gameplay experience would be that her picture moves around on the brady bunch grid. There is no real incentive to grind for rank 5 either since the benefits are all about increasing standing for my power, which as previously stated has no real impact on my gameplay experience.

The only real difference when a system changes hands is who gets to shoot first and not get a bounty. All the other economic benefits are the same ones that can be had in any control system, so expanding is pointless.

 

[Arjin]

Kinda like the same mentality the world has for kids in school, everyone gets a blue ribbon no matter what. Eliminate competition cause it's bad.

Powerplay is also too politically correct, invade a system and take it over with...leaflets.. Where are the all out warzone's?

They really should just erase Powerplay from the servers, pretend everyone else is crazy and say it never happened.

 

[Ziljan]

Kinda like the same mentality the world has for kids in school, everyone gets a blue ribbon no matter what. Eliminate competition cause it's bad.

Powerplay is also too politically correct, invade a system and take it over with...leaflets.. Where are the all out warzone's?

They really should just erase Powerplay from the servers, pretend everyone else is crazy and say it never happened.

I don't think someone else needs to lose for all players to win. Power play "progress" should be reflected by benefits to the player, not necessarily negatives for their competition, but that could happen too. If the player's power is increasing, then the players own sense of power should increase. If the player's power is diminishing, then players sense of power projection should diminish. You can accomplish this with or without harming other factions. All out war should hurt everyone involved, but hurt the "winner" less. Peaceful progress should benefit everyone associated with the power. A rising tide lifts all boats, etc.

Afaik, the command capital of a power doesn't seem to make their systems anymore profitable to live in or to trade with, which makes no sense. Likewise, when a system is undermined, there doesn't seem to be any real negative consequences.

 

[Rauminen]

You are forgetting about the increased level 2 bonuses if the power is in the top 3. Those mean a LOT of credit difference when push comes to shove. And it's an "instant" effect - as in applies to you the week you achieved it.

Otherwise yeah, apart from that there's just the weekly "salary" and the one-time module reward for sticking with the power for 4 weeks.


Edit: so I guess I disagree, with conditional tones of agreement at some points.

 

[Jericho]

Player driven..... Dev overridden.

PP is a failing because players who play in sandboxes want shovels and pails... This game makes you check your toys at the door.

 

[Ziljan]

You are forgetting about the increased level 2 bonuses if the power is in the top 3.

The rank 2-3 bonuses means that people who are barely participating can benefit from the efforts of people who earned rank 4 and 5. So joining a high ranking power is actually disincentive to participate in PP. The people with rank 3,4,5 aren't impacted by Galactic Standing at all.

A few powers like winters and khalesi don't get any personal benefit from rank 3 or 5. Increased influence? That might help the power in theory, but it does jack sh*t for the Cmdr.

All of of this begs the question, what is the real benefit of trying to help your power increase their galactic standing? None. What is the benefit of helping your power increase the number or types of systems it controls. None. It's all just pushing numbers around on a spreadsheet.

 

[CMDR Starschulz]

So, what would you change to make it better in your eyes?

 

[Kazacy]

Ok OP you are right about the meaning of power influence for individual player. But you miss one point: fun. Personally i have alot of fun after i pledged for Archon. Now i travel all around the human bubble and i pirate/kill another commanders all in the name of "Archon". Most of the time people run away from me from the very second they see my allegiance and wanted/hostile status. Or the opposite people try to catch me, especially in gangs, more fun on the way to me.
In conclusion for me the power play is a very good idea of FD. As for the power, is like you said just numbers in a spreadsheet the "secret" is to have fun not to read the spreadsheet.

 

[Hanako Seishin]

I've always considered the benefit of increasing Aisling's power's galactic standing is in increasing the probability of her getting the throne.
If you're looking for personal benefits, why waste your time on Powerplay when you can do trading instead?
Powerplay is deliberately designed to not be profitable so that you help a power because you care for it, not because you care for credits.

 

[Ziljan]

Ok OP you are right about the meaning of power influence for individual player. But you miss one point: fun. Personally i have alot of fun after i pledged for Archon. Now i travel all around the human bubble and i pirate/kill another commanders all in the name of "Archon". Most of the time people run away from me from the very second they see my allegiance and wanted/hostile status. Or the opposite people try to catch me, especially in gangs, more fun on the way to me.
In conclusion for me the power play is a very good idea of FD. As for the power, is like you said just numbers in a spreadsheet the "secret" is to have fun not to read the spreadsheet.

I've always considered the benefit of increasing Aisling's power's galactic standing is in increasing the probability of her getting the throne.
If you're looking for personal benefits, why waste your time on Powerplay when you can do trading instead?
Powerplay is deliberately designed to not be profitable so that you help a power because you care for it, not because you care for credits.

Why should we have to choose between fun and self advancement? Can't PP do both? Imagine how much more you'd care about the outcome of a PP cycle if your hard work yielded tangible results. It doesn't have to be money. It could simply be modified NPC behavior to recognize your status when inside your control systems. Increased consequences for pvp kills against powerful high rank players in a high rank Power, like issuing a contract against the murderer (similar to defecting consequences) etc. The possibilities are endless, and shouldn't have to be confined to RP imagination.

 

[Night Parrot]

It also looks like the Power with the most players will take over the lot. It would be nice to balance it by a ratio effect e.g. simulated population of Systems in the Power vs. number of players pledged; have the targets lower for Powers with few players and higher for many players.

 

[Kazacy]

Why should we have to choose between fun and self advancement? Can't PP do both? Imagine how much more you'd care about the outcome of a PP cycle if your hard work yielded tangible results. It doesn't have to be money. It could simply be modified NPC behavior to recognize your status when inside your control systems. Increased consequences for pvp kills against powerful high rank players in a high rank Power, like issuing a contract against the murderer (similar to defecting consequences) etc. The possibilities are endless, and shouldn't have to be confined to RP imagination.

I have to admit it will be pretty good if all my efforts will be rewarded but i don't hold my breath for it.

 

[CMDR Starschulz]

Why should we have to choose between fun and self advancement? Can't PP do both? Imagine how much more you'd care about the outcome of a PP cycle if your hard work yielded tangible results. It doesn't have to be money. It could simply be modified NPC behavior to recognize your status when inside your control systems. Increased consequences for pvp kills against powerful high rank players in a high rank Power, like issuing a contract against the murderer (similar to defecting consequences) etc. The possibilities are endless, and shouldn't have to be confined to RP imagination.

I think powerplay was designed as something for players with large excess of credits so they can dump large amounts at once to influence their power, while being accessible for those who do not have the same large disposable income. Powerplay also adds to the story of the game, giving a visual representation of what gal-net aims to show, and allows everyone to participate. Those with hundreds of millions of extra credits can literally cause a power to expand, by themselves.

 

[Djtarjan]

Biggest issue with powerplay in my book is that there is no way to stop SOLO players from Undermining or do other powerplay actions. This system is about war not just a merit grind... It should be open only to take part in powerplay , and i say this as an SOLO player myself....

 

[Arjin]

I think powerplay was designed as something for players with large excess of credits so they can dump large amounts at once to influence their power, while being accessible for those who do not have the same large disposable income. Powerplay also adds to the story of the game, giving a visual representation of what gal-net aims to show, and allows everyone to participate. Those with hundreds of millions of extra credits can literally cause a power to expand, by themselves.

Money is power and will buy you anything, just like real life, You can buy the presidency of the US for example.

 

[CMDR Starschulz]

Money is power and will buy you anything, just like real life, You can buy the presidency of the US for example.

The only question that remains is: Do you REALLY want to buy your way into one of the most stressful jobs?

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Biggest issue with powerplay in my book is that there is no way to stop SOLO players from Undermining or do other powerplay actions. This system is about war not just a merit grind... It should be open only to take part in powerplay , and i say this as an SOLO player myself....

Not to derail this into a solo vs open thread merge, but PVP isn't the core concept for this game, it is another sticky note on the fridge of this game. You can undo everything they do within the powerplay system.

 

[Arjin]

The only question that remains is: Do you REALLY want to buy your way into one of the most stressful jobs?

Not in a million years, But I could buy the guy who is running, and have him be my puppet in power..oh snap,, that sounds all too familiar..

 

[Ziljan]

I think powerplay was designed as something for players with large excess of credits so they can dump large amounts at once to influence their power, while being accessible for those who do not have the same large disposable income. Powerplay also adds to the story of the game, giving a visual representation of what gal-net aims to show, and allows everyone to participate. Those with hundreds of millions of extra credits can literally cause a power to expand, by themselves.

That's a very narrow view. End game content and a meaningless narrative only meant for Scrooge McDuck players in Anacondas? I highly doubt that is what FD wanted. Why bother creating ranks 1-4? That's a lot of work for mirrors and smoke.

 

[CMDR Starschulz]

That's a very narrow view. End game content and a meaningless narrative only meant for Scrooge McDuck players in Anacondas? I highly doubt that is what FD wanted. Why bother creating ranks 1-4? That's a lot of work for mirrors and smoke.

"while being accessible for those who do not have the same large disposable income"

I didn't say it was only for Scrooges, i said it was mostly towards them. even without the Vault of gold coins you could still easily make it to rank 4 with little effort and contribute to your power. Coordinate with a player group dedicated to helping that power, and you become stronger than those with the money.

You have presented what is a problem in your eyes, but do not provide a solution and get nowhere.

 

[Ziljan]

Whether it's a rich CMDRs toy or a background sim for every one, the problem is the same: there is no correlation between self improvement and faction improvement. The benefits are all static and limited by relative power standing.

I don't claim to have a complete solution, but an obvious beginning would be to make the benefits of participation increase based on the strategic empowerment of your faction. Not on a galactic standing rank. This way everyone could get better rewards based on how well their group was advancing.

To be clear let me repeat myself: competition with other factions should be an optional path to advance but not a requirement. Cooperation should be possible as well competition. The idea that there is a finite amount of power to be had in nearly limitless galaxy is ridiculous. The idea that we can't all improve simultaneously is also ridiculous. Do away with galactic standing. Replace it with an overall power score. Base income on weekly improvement per capita in base net command capital increases. So smaller groups that do well will make more individually than larger powers that do just as well in total.