The NPCs are getting so good!

[Sarah Jane Avory]

Disagree. No mercy with high ranks. Elite ranks need to become at least as dangerous as players and force us to think it through and have a plan to beat them, either we become better pilots or come in in force with extra support commanders. The balance for Elite (and higher rank in general) AI is that you should not encounter them as often as the rest of lower ranks. And they should also have their rewards and bounties upped accordingly.

And I only hope it is not just "Elite", but that also all the other top tier ranks have commensurable difficulties etc.

Right now (in my build) if I take on an Elite python in a Sidewinder... er... I don't live very long. Like zero chance. They don't mess about so much now (unlike in the public build). To the point and deadly. I will dial this down a bit, but it's nice to know how far I can push it.

 

[sensai25]

Hello Sarah.

I made my last combat rank with your little minions, very glad to face difficulty. Deadly to Elite path took me a looooooot of time and was sometimes hard in warzone.


May i suggest something ?


I have noticed some """unfair""" targeting issue (note plz the triple quote lol) : Let me explain
Sometimes when you arrive in warzone your are already targeted by 5 ships instantly. Quite hard to resist.

Sometimes when you fight overnumbered because your camp is "winning", ennemy wave repop but always take you as primary target.

I humbly suggest to "share" targeting between all targets if this is possible, and not designed like that as a purpose.




Thx and i like your job on IA

 

[M. Grey]

Thanks and well done!
One should have to judge which fight to pick! Had not trouble vs an elite Anaconda in my A-Python so far.

 

[Evil]

It's all about getting that correct scale in AI difficulty, so everyone one can appreciate ease and difficulty.

 

[Ism]

I think you should fix system authority fighting each other in RES also. If the changes you have planned are as good as you say, I'm going to need sys auth in a pinch.
Don't need any infighting.

 

[Defacto]

Right now (in my build) if I take on an Elite python in a Sidewinder... er... I don't live very long. Like zero chance. They don't mess about so much now (unlike in the public build). To the point and deadly. I will dial this down a bit, but it's nice to know how far I can push it.

Excellent. The AI's I face currently have gotten much more skillfull, but a problem I still have with them is that they seem so indecisive and slow. It's very easy to run away. Also: Security ships that respond to distress calls seem very disoriented, and many times they just start flying around aimlessly, rapidly dropping away from sensor range.

 

[wstephenson]

Disagree. No mercy with high ranks. Elite ranks need to become at least as dangerous as players and force us to think it through and have a plan to beat them, either we become better pilots or come in in force with extra support commanders. The balance for Elite (and higher rank in general) AI is that you should not encounter them as often as the rest of lower ranks. And they should also have their rewards and bounties upped accordingly.

And I only hope it is not just "Elite", but that also all the other top tier ranks have commensurable difficulties etc.

Agreed - Elite pilots didn't survive long enough to become Elite by making mistakes. Their mistakes should be so far up the combat meta tactic tree that most pilots will never notice - ie a mistake at this level might be a quarter second delay in setting the optimal power distribution for the situation.

But in addition to rewards and bounties, Elite pilots should be like ghosts, so that they are commensurately awe inspiring when you do bump into one. They are playing the long game, and will have no problem taking the long way round a system so they aren't exposed to risk. They should be slippery as hell, so if you even look like you're approaching an interdict course in SC flying anything resembling a threat to them, they will get out of there. Cunning traps should be necessary to get into a fair fight with an Elite pilot.

Right now (in my build) if I take on an Elite python in a Sidewinder... er... I don't live very long. Like zero chance. They don't mess about so much now (unlike in the public build). To the point and deadly. I will dial this down a bit, but it's nice to know how far I can push it.

Why would you dial it down in this case? Must human pilots have a chance to defeat the AI in any combination of two ships? The absolute best outcome of attacking an Elite python with a Sidewinder should be being able to disengage and stay alive. Dialing it back will make more evenly (by the numbers) matched fights between humans and AI too easy for the humans.

Finger in the air, I'd say the last 1v1 matchup of human Sidewinder and Elite AI where a good pilot would have a significant chance of winning would be Sidewinder vs Elite AI Asp. After that, you'll have to bring a bigger ship to the fight.

Oh and another thing: Sarah, have you considered using ships' "body language" to convey their personality and confidence level? So in an interdiction, a wing of Navy Pythons will assume textbook tactical positions covering each other, whereas pirates would just surround in a ragged circle? A high-ranked pirate intercepting a weaker prey might execute an emergency stop metres away from its nose before making demands. A wing of weak traders would behave like a school of minnows, boosting away as soon as interdicted.

 

[Ryder35]

Please don't make it unplayable. Even Elite Anacondas can have a bad day and make mistakes. ;-)

Sounds about right to me, there should be encounters that you need to run from even if you are elite and well specced.

 

[Mephane]

Hello Sarah.

I made my last combat rank with your little minions, very glad to face difficulty. Deadly to Elite path took me a looooooot of time and was sometimes hard in warzone.


May i suggest something ?


I have noticed some """unfair""" targeting issue (note plz the triple quote lol) : Let me explain
Sometimes when you arrive in warzone your are already targeted by 5 ships instantly. Quite hard to resist.

Sometimes when you fight overnumbered because your camp is "winning", ennemy wave repop but always take you as primary target.

I humbly suggest to "share" targeting between all targets if this is possible, and not designed like that as a purpose.




Thx and i like your job on IA

This is my observation, too. Enter a fresh conflict zone instance, join one of the sides, get fires at immediately by multiple ships. I think it has to do with the fact that when you arrive, the ships are just there doing nothing, still picking targets. When you become a valid target, they seem to prefer attacking you instead of other NPCs (this also seems to be the case for enemy reinforcements that arrive at random).

But imho it is generally weird that you arrive and the battle has not yet started.

 

[GibMeister]

Yet every day or so we see some Commander start a thread whining that he couldn't take down an Elite NPC Python in his Hauler and it just isn't fair and he is telling his mommy.
.
I love the new AI, lots of nice little touches like after scanning they will sometimes say something like "Whoa, you look as though you can look after yourself, I will leave you in peace" or the like.
.
My only beef with SJA's minions is those that volunteer for the Security Services - just because I incurred a 200 Credit Bounty doesn't mean you have to ignore all other wanted ships and attack me on mass! lol Oh and the silly NPCs that interdict me in my Vulture when I have no cargo and they are in an unshielded Eagle - just a waste of my time

Lets be honest, the AI is better but it's still not that good! If you have ever fought a real player, even one that isnt very good, the difference is massive! I killed an Elite Annaconda Pirate Lord (293K bounty! Without KWS) last night in my Python (Cargo loadout), I may have used 1 burst of Shield Cell bank that was it and my Python sux, I expect to win easily in my Vulture but I thought the Python might struggle since its such a slug, but it didnt take long to take him down at all, very dissapointing....I just read Sarah is working on more improvements, look forward to that, I know she has to balance things as some of us think they are too hard and others like me think they are easy.
.
Also the comment about them scanning you and saying that you look to tough etc ... I have seen this but they still attack you! I think its just random burb they spout!

 

[Sarah Jane Avory]

Excellent. The AI's I face currently have gotten much more skillfull, but a problem I still have with them is that they seem so indecisive and slow. It's very easy to run away. Also: Security ships that respond to distress calls seem very disoriented, and many times they just start flying around aimlessly, rapidly dropping away from sensor range.

They're a lot sharper now... plus I've added pursuit logic - they're using pip management better so they can go to full ENG pips + boost to chase you. It's all graded by rank, so if you're being pursued by an Elite AI and he has a faster ship... you're in trouble.

 

[yyy]

With AI improvements to be introduced, does this mean Thargoids are ready to be unleashed?

 

[Comrade Napoleon]

With AI improvements to be introduced, does this mean Thargoids are ready to be unleashed?

No, not yet.
First Cmdr's will have to get used to be shot down. then when all the tears threads wane on the forums then the Thargoids wil hit. Hard.
And then we will see tears in rivers.

Cheers Cmdr's

 

[Jex =TE=]

I'm not finding the AI to be particularly difficult at all unless I'm up against an ana or a python but then those things should be kicking my ass when I'm in a half upgraded Viper. The others though aren't particularly difficult on their own.

 

[Lord_Crazy]

With AI improvements to be introduced, does this mean Thargoids are ready to be unleashed?

Nope. They should arrive when each one of us has been killed at least once by an AI ship. Then we will know how it feels

 

[CMDR UBERPEITSCHE]

Like I said before, Im all for the changes.

Just one thing that could be a problem, Elite NPC's in combat zones could really mess up the balance.
In the same way it's already affection the ratio of red to green when one of the sides gets the luck of having higher ranked NPC's just one uber AI could mess up the entire CZ, at least in Solo.
Remember that when you're the only player in a combat zone you are fully at the mercy of the NPC's not going fully berzerk.

That's all.

 

[ROLX]

Regarding CZ ‘s
Crash and Burn Story- Positive feedback.
Last night, working a CZ in my Vulture (with about 1.2 mil cr combat bonds) I made Dangerous.
At the time I had just finished running down a Python and had drawn the attention of an Anaconda. No big deal boost out a bit from the beacon, retract points and 3 pips to SYS while disabling the shield booster to recover quicker. Saw 2 ship markers following me but is usually a light ship (Eagle) and Anaconda wing, so still was not too concerned.
Got up to 2 rings, re-enabled the booster, checked my 6 (both were still there) dinna have a target lock on either one, but I knew one was the Anaconda by the inaccurate beam fire on both sides of the ship.
Double checked, all good, flipped pips, deployed hard points, FA toggle, swing to close fast and snuggle up under the Anaconda.
Target Anaconda. Start to cycle subsystems. Closing in to around 2km fast with boost. No sweat and gimballed pips start to settle in.
Get slapped with a cornflake storm, unfortunate but not devastating (Vulture shields).
Get slapped with another cornflake storm, wassup ?
Bam get face palmed by something. “Shields offline…. Taking damage”
Hit again…. Canopy compromised…. Tick.. tick… tick ……
Target other ship. (Was game over anyway at that point anyway) I swear, unless I panicked, it was a second Anaconda…!
After I settled down, was an exciting 2-3 minutes, I laughed my butt off. Got DP’d minutes after gaining Dangerous.
No butt hurt, just thought it interesting (and hilarious fun!) Gotta up my digitalis dosage… !
Anyone else notice this? Was a blast

 

[CMDR UBERPEITSCHE]

It's all fun and games until one of the big ships targets you and you're in smth smaller then a Vulture.
I just feel it's sad that I can't use my Viper in CZ's for that reason, even if I stay away from the big boys as soon as one of them decides to attack me I can either die or leave.
That of course depends on the big ships rating, but taking out a high ranked Python in the middle of a combat zone with a Viper is just too hard.

And it should be, the Viper should lose, but the big ships targeting you and not letting go even if you try to run is a big middle finger. It just renders smaller fighters useless in CZ's.
I suggest humbely that big ships concentrate less on you if you are in a small ship, I mean you are in fact less of a threat in a small ship right?

I have just been targeted to often in the last days, without attacking first that is. Had to store away the Viper for CZ's, only use it for BH now.

 

[ROLX]

I made 2 major mistakes in that engagement: Arrogance and arrogance.
Should’ve checked both targets before boosting in on what I thought was a single Anaconda. Had I done that I might have run. (Though common sense is not my strong suit)
I usually take out the smaller ship first. (kite him out) Was in a hurry to log off though.
Never was mass locked (till close approach) and could’ve pipped engines, boosted, and jumped had I paid attention. Had plenty of time on shield recharge avoidance.
All told, I got exactly what I deserved.
I do agree, I probably would not take a smaller ship into High Res CZ unless I had planned to kite around the edges.
Thanks guys, just wanted to add a fun story to the thread.

 

[Bluefalcon8560]

They're a lot sharper now... plus I've added pursuit logic - they're using pip management better so they can go to full ENG pips + boost to chase you. It's all graded by rank, so if you're being pursued by an Elite AI and he has a faster ship... you're in trouble.

To me this one of the harder parts of Elite, building sofisticated AI that can challenge a human. Given the variables a tall challenge indeed.

I expect over time that the upper end of NPcs will continue to evolve and get harder so this will be journey to NPCs that can take any human and make them sweat.

Looking forward to that.