The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[FuzzySpider]

i can see 2 possibilities

the no voters win and the game dies within a year

the yes voters win and player made content keeps the game running for several years

Yes...

The portents of doom from people who constantly say "Look Braben! I know you've been a professional game developer for the last 30 years but that means nothing! If you don't make the game exactly how I want it your game is going to die!" are, and always have been, kind of sad.

 

[Stigbob]

God, this debate, and I use the term completely incorrectly, is terrible and neither side is coming out of it well.

The pros because of shenanigans and the antis because of their religionlike adherence to 'out of my, cold dead hands' mentality to anything that anyone else even thinks of suggesting. It's almost cult like, and that's only a letter away from the truth.

The code are handing out moral guidance now, how strange.

Thanks for reminding me though, the organized use of things like shield recharge exploits spoiling the game is another type of guild tactic I disapprove of and would prefer not to see in-game.

 

[Ghostickles]

Guilds and player owned station is so not in the spirit of elite.

This makes me feel bad.
Would you mind humoring me for a moment? Let me ask hypothetically; If it did happen what could be done to make it 'Elite'?
I remember hearing Braben talk about player stations in 2014, so there has to be a way it fits, after all Braben (and Co.) invented Elite, its what he makes that is Elite. How would he do this best for you? Any thoughts?
I will not consider answers a 'change of mind', but I do think there is a mid ground. There is always a mid ground.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

To any of the FD mods. Is there any way to check for matching IP addresses from voters?

Yes. But what's the point? The poll is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. FD were probably not going to take any notice of it any, even if there had not been ballot stuffing. Whether or not there were people creating sock puppets to vote multiple times hardly matters in the circumstances.

 

[Ozric]

This makes me feel bad.
Would you mind humoring me for a moment? Let me ask hypothetically; If it did happen what could be done to make it 'Elite'?
I remember hearing Braben talk about player stations in 2014, so there has to be a way it fits, after all Braben (and Co.) invented Elite, its what he makes that is Elite. How would he do this best for you? Any thoughts?
I will not consider answers a 'change of mind', but I do think there is a mid ground. There is always a mid ground.

The first thing you would need to do would be to find a reason for having Player Owned Stations other than, I can have player owned stuff in other games. How would they fit in here, what would be the point, how would it work when the instancing system means that there's no guarantee that you could ever stop people from doing things to your station that you didn't want them to do?

 

[Talarin]

I just don't like the idea of aspects of Elite being inaccessible for a single player..... For instance some big loot dungeons and bosses are impossible unless you are part of a large clan in WoW. I'd rather just log on and play whenever and get the most from the game regardless of if I have friends on-line (or friends at all).

Agreed. Functionality should be available for players in solo, group or open (and this is one of the big arguments against player-owned stations in my book).

Secret agent-style missions wouldn't go amiss either. I remember having missions in First Encounters where you'd have to photograph a secret base. There are so many clandestine-type things you could get up to.

On the flip side, some missions should require assistance from team-mates (remember we want to encourage social interaction). On that note - sharing missions while people are in your wing is a bit of a must. Taking four people into a combat encounter to kill the general and only one of you getting a reward is daft.

 

[Sysmon]

What a useless poll! There's an option missing: No guilds but limited player-owned structures.

S

 

[Ghostickles]

The first thing you would need to do would be to find a reason for having Player Owned Stations other than, I can have player owned stuff in other games. How would they fit in here, what would be the point, how would it work when the instancing system means that there's no guarantee that you could ever stop people from doing things to your station that you didn't want them to do?

I wouldn't permit ownership functions outside valid instances. It would appear from outside an NPC station. You may never know its player owned. Reasons, there are many, Im sure you can come up with one or two of your own, if you wanted to. What do you think a good reason would be?

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

So reddit is essentially just a group (or groups?) of communities that talk a lot and over represent themselves and this is why they are met with antipathy?

I'm not sure I have seen antipathy for being a reddit group. Antipathy for ballot stuffing in a pointless poll, yeah.

Jenner said this is not possible.

On the vBulletin forum I was an admin on, we could see IP addresses, though doing any analysis would be hard work - and there is no point. However, that may be because I was an admin (sort of super-mod) rather than a mod, and the mods do not have those rights.

 

[Steve50]

Voted no, guilds don't belong in Elite and player owned stuff? No.. This is Elite not X3.

You are supposed to be an insignificant nobody not the owner of a huge corporation.

 

[Vincent Starson]

Guilds would be cool. Small player owned hangers / stations would be cool. Thumbs up for more stuff in the game for sure!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I bought it as an MMO, back in early beta FD said they were making this game massively multiplayer. It set an expectation which I don't think 'wording around' the meaning is what they intended to do, but they let it go on because of the accelerated development needed to hit the 30 year anniversary mark. 'Guilds don't fit Elite' because it was always a single player franchise. Of course you don't have guilds in Single Player!
Now, in the future present its massively multiplayer online, and it has a ten year plan. CQC happened. More will happen, but it will still never be EvE. I like that about Elite Dangerous. I like that I don't have gate campers or mass manipulation in game. Thanx for keeping that in check, FD.

It is an MMO. Its massive and its multiplayer, and its online. Done deal.

 

[Galactic Midden]

What a useless poll! There's an option missing: No guilds but limited player-owned structures.

S

This would get my vote but only if it involved a galactic game of "sardines"

 

[Fly666monkey]

Yes, yes, all of my YES! One thing E:d has desperately needed since launch is a way for players to organize in-game, now more than ever with powerplay.

And I always felt that owning your own station should be some sort of major "end-game" type goal. A fancy, Palm tree station with your own private landing pad would be the ultimate status symbol, and could open up all sorts of ways to toy with the game's background simulation.

 

[Ghostickles]

It is an MMO. Its massive and its multiplayer, and its online. Done deal.

Myth Busted.

It set an expectation which I don't think 'wording around' the meaning is what they intended to do

 

[Crazy Jedi]

This would get my vote but only if it involved a galactic game of "sardines"

Interesting.... Expand

 

[Ozric]

Bust.
'It set an expectation which I don't think 'wording around' the meaning is what they intended to do'

I refer to an earlier answer I made

The first true MMORPG as defined was NWN and you could only have 20 people on a server when that launched.

 

[Talarin]

Social improvements

The tricky bit is the Guildy bit.

In order to discuss it fairly, I think we have to define what it is: an association of like-minded people who collaborate.

Some will collaborate with a view to being hostile to other players, but that isn't an issue with Guilds per-se; but a shortfall in the crime/punishment systems in the game and I believe that's where it should be addressed. To explicitly say it - a guild is not above the law and should not be permitted to act with impunity. It's up to FD to sort that out (and it's a problem in the game already, excluding the random abandonment of law which is PowerPlay).

Basic functionality a guild needs within the game is basic, really just delegation of authority from the creator of the guild, grouping controls and chat. Essentially an advanced friends list.

We want the guild to be non-intrusive. There are good suggestions earlier in the thread, so I'll just say it can be done and can be transparent to players who don't really give a monkey's about it.

Guilds own nothing. No shared ownership of any sort. Perhaps money transfers would be permitted within the guild - but that's it.

However, there are groups of players who fancy guild vs. guild actions - so within the existing engine perhaps the guild could be flagged IF THEY HAVE COLLECTIVELY CHOSEN TO BE A COMBAT GUILD (so it would be an attribute of the Guild, set by the owner and clear to people who might consider joining them). Again though, the law applies within populated systems.

How does that sound?

 

[Ozric]

I wouldn't permit ownership functions outside valid instances. It would appear from outside an NPC station. You may never know its player owned. Reasons, there are many, Im sure you can come up with one or two of your own, if you wanted to. What do you think a good reason would be?

The trouble is, I don't think there is a good reason to have player owned things (outside of ships obviously) in this game.

 

[Crazy Jedi]

I'm going to play Elite!

Try not to argue each other in to Oblivion (also a very fine game)