Piracy and smuggling need love.

[Quineloe]

No one forces you to carry the most expensive goods as a trader.

Well, FD does, with their insistance that there can't be good profit in trading anything worth less than 6k. I'd like to see significant less scaling in profits between low and high priced goods. It shouldn't be ten times as profitable to carry Palladium compared to grain.

 

[Samosa]

It shouldn't be ten times as profitable to carry Palladium compared to grain.

If it weren't, then people would buy cheaper items, taking on much less risk. Expensive things have a higher margin because one technically has more to lose.

 

[Battleship Kickass]

Speaking as a trader, while I agree in spirit with your suggestion - would love to see our ability to pirate NPC ships improved, so good thoughts on that.

But purely speaking for myself - letting me live with 100% loss of all my cargo via super cargo limpet is basically is not what I see as benefit. I'd rather die fighting, die running, or just suicide rather than give satisfaction of allowing the other guy to take all my cargo. And if it kept happening, then yes, I would retreat to solo or private group.

It's been said over and over, but unless you are a full time or primary play time trader, it's hard to understand but put simply - the loss of the ship and ship insurance is basically a small blow. Not peanuts, but acceptable cost of doing business if and when you go boom. Everyone takes that risk, combat ships - traders - explorers. I won't entangle the issue with the other topic of combat pilot often risks far less insurance rebuy than trader ship so let's just zero that out for sake of this discussion and call it even.

Losing 100% of your cargo, however, is not even. It is basically a crippling blow. If the trader has sufficient cash reserves, it is of course NOT a permanent crippling injury but it severely reverses quite a bit of progress the trader may have made in profits. So easier or repeated loss of most / all of their cargo via super limpets blowing out their hatch would for me just be a guarantee of retreating into solo or private.

As it stands, the inequality of loss, risk vs reward, is already severely imbalanced between combat ship death vs trader ship death even without cargo. The more the pendulum swings towards more cargo loss, it matters absolutely not at all that you may have 'let him live' because the loss of the cargo is what really kills Open traders - not the relatively small loss of ship insurance rebuy.

So put on Point Defense Turrets if you don't want to be limpited...or spin your ship, limpits can't connect to a spinning ship...or self destruct if you don't want them to get cargo that bad. It literally has no effect other than maybe getting the pirate more cargo, or maybe letting the trader live instead of the current if they don't comply, blow them up and all their cargo. Or the best way LEARN HOW TO ESCAPE. It is very simple, I've written step by step guides to escape 100% of interdictions.

Your example is ludicrous really...yes repeated loss of 100% cargo would cripple traders...which would currently be even more costly as the pirate would blow your ship up and all cargo if you don't comply. Repeated loss in any profession is crippling and means you are obviously doing something wrong.

 

[Veth]

you make it sound like right now your only option is to risk combat in high RES

No, I'm saying

the yields in the belts are the same

Or better yet, the profits are similar enough in non-RES rings, meaning there is no reward for the risk. If I put in the extra effort, I'm still making mostly the same aka way less than 3 other professions can.

Base mining needs a boost, and risky RES mining needs a much larger one.

Also just because pirates have accesd to tools doesn't mean they know and patrol every trade route. I've run good ones that even got advertised in forums/reddit and while they were still good (before over trading due to exposure) I still didn't run into pirates.

Only in consistent rare goods systems do I ever get pirated (or cg, pp hq now in 1.3)

Do you pirate? Every serious career pirate I've talked to says they do it for the fun, it certainly doesn't pay well.

 

[jacozilla]

So put on Point Defense Turrets if you don't want to be limpited...or spin your ship, limpits can't connect to a spinning ship...or self destruct if you don't want them to get cargo that bad. It literally has no effect other than maybe getting the pirate more cargo, or maybe letting the trader live instead of the current if they don't comply, blow them up and all their cargo. Or the best way LEARN HOW TO ESCAPE. It is very simple, I've written step by step guides to escape 100% of interdictions.

Your example is ludicrous really...yes repeated loss of 100% cargo would cripple traders...which would currently be even more costly as the pirate would blow your ship up and all cargo if you don't comply. Repeated loss in any profession is crippling and means you are obviously doing something wrong.

You obviously read nor understand any of my reply, so any further reply to you is worthless.

To the rest of the forum, this poster obviously has no real experience trading in Open with a freighter. There is no 100% interdiction getaway strategy against known route blockades by wings of FDLs. You get away some of the time, there is no get away 100% of the time. Any so called expert "trader" claiming so is immediately discredited by:

a) very, very few things in any game much less life, is 100%. Period. To believe so makes you not only an extremist, but a zero credibility one as well. You can say many times, most the time, but anytime you stick to 100% it just makes you look foolish and unwilling to even concede to unlikely probability

b) go run any of the popular routes in Open that frequently has player trade blockades - say 34 Pegasi. go do it in a Python trade ship since at least that stands more a fighting chance than a type 9 or 7. You will get away plenty of times. You will also die plenty of times. With bad luck, you will get interdicted by not only a wing of FDLs, but also have the RNG gods throw 1 or 2 NPC interdictions at you on the way to Webb Port.

With good luck, you'll just get the player wing and sometimes they will be uncoordinated, they won't have a front team to jump you at hyper in point, and a chase team to interdict you immediately after first one fails - usually positioned mid route to Webb Port. Do it at least 10x - even that is a tiny sample compared to the number of runs a trader does, but try it. Then come back and tell us all how the respondent's 100% fool proof escape plan worked.

Apparently I've hit some nerve in this respondent, who feels the need to spew inaccuracies and plain fabrication at what seemed a simple point - whether it is extra strong cargo limpets or whatever, additional strong increases to cargo losses for player traders in Open WILL lead to even more of the relatively few traders that still risk Open to go to solo.

Not sure how Mr. Fabricator can not even concede to that.

 

[jacozilla]

No, I'm saying



Or better yet, the profits are similar enough in non-RES rings, meaning there is no reward for the risk. If I put in the extra effort, I'm still making mostly the same aka way less than 3 other professions can.

Base mining needs a boost, and risky RES mining needs a much larger one.

Also just because pirates have accesd to tools doesn't mean they know and patrol every trade route. I've run good ones that even got advertised in forums/reddit and while they were still good (before over trading due to exposure) I still didn't run into pirates.

Only in consistent rare goods systems do I ever get pirated (or cg, pp hq now in 1.3)

Do you pirate? Every serious career pirate I've talked to says they do it for the fun, it certainly doesn't pay well.

Ah ok, got it. You're saying if you mine in higher risk areas, like say hi-res instances, then the reward should be greater than right now basically equal at ring belts vs hi-res. I agree, and that would be pretty cool, if not only mining profits were buffed overall, but also layered in some two-tier system where mining in more risky areas were higher profits.

They'd have to do something about the hi-res drop in and move 50km away tactic though - because that's essentially the same low risk (can't say no risk, but the spawns that far out are incredibly few and rare). Maybe a distance limited to the extra mining profit boost from center point of hi-res marker.

I didn't mean to sound like every popular route is camped, but for the truly spectacular ones in my experience so far, they are. A lot of people are happy with 2500 or 3000 credit per ton profit runs. But put it this way, the one I get jumped at all the time is a 4200 CR/ton profit run. Obviously the campers knows this, and obviously I could do all this in solo but I hope that by actually still trying in Open that I am at least trying to slow down the death of open rather than just say screw it, I'll run that max profit route that so far haven't found anything better - and just do it solo.

Not my cup of tea to pirate human players. Although if a good code pirate showed up, I wouldn't mind too much if done on me, with reasonable proportion of profit cargo demand. I have tried pirating NPC ships though which is why I've said elsewhere that it would be cool if NPC pirating was buffed.

 

[Battleship Kickass]

You obviously read nor understand any of my reply, so any further reply to you is worthless.

To the rest of the forum, this poster obviously has no real experience trading in Open with a freighter. There is no 100% interdiction getaway strategy against known route blockades by wings of FDLs. You get away some of the time, there is no get away 100% of the time. Any so called expert "trader" claiming so is immediately discredited by:

a) very, very few things in any game much less life, is 100%. Period. To believe so makes you not only an extremist, but a zero credibility one as well. You can say many times, most the time, but anytime you stick to 100% it just makes you look foolish and unwilling to even concede to unlikely probability

b) go run any of the popular routes in Open that frequently has player trade blockades - say 34 Pegasi. go do it in a Python trade ship since at least that stands more a fighting chance than a type 9 or 7. You will get away plenty of times. You will also die plenty of times. With bad luck, you will get interdicted by not only a wing of FDLs, but also have the RNG gods throw 1 or 2 NPC interdictions at you on the way to Webb Port.

With good luck, you'll just get the player wing and sometimes they will be uncoordinated, they won't have a front team to jump you at hyper in point, and a chase team to interdict you immediately after first one fails - usually positioned mid route to Webb Port. Do it at least 10x - even that is a tiny sample compared to the number of runs a trader does, but try it. Then come back and tell us all how the respondent's 100% fool proof escape plan worked.

Apparently I've hit some nerve in this respondent, who feels the need to spew inaccuracies and plain fabrication at what seemed a simple point - whether it is extra strong cargo limpets or whatever, additional strong increases to cargo losses for player traders in Open WILL lead to even more of the relatively few traders that still risk Open to go to solo.

Not sure how Mr. Fabricator can not even concede to that.

I guess you are new. Submit, 4 in sys, pop a SCB, and high wake. 100% interdiction escape even vs wings or essentially that with your ship kitted properly. You have to be joking, do a trade run in a Python is your example? That's comical. 4 FDLs and 4 Anacondas could jump a Python and they would escape every single time with ease kitted properly. Just because it is something you can't personally do because you don't know the routine yet doesn't make it incorrect. A type 6 in D gear may have an issue with a wing jumping them if he doesn't perform the FSD shuffle ASAP, but still very easy to escape. There is no RNG or luck factors in escaping player interdictions...you know the escape routine and have a properly kitted ship or you don't. NPCs are not even worth talking about, if you have any issue escaping NPCs then you still haven't learned all the game mechanics yet.

You haven't hit any nerve with me, I'm trying to explain how the game works to you from someone extremely knowledgeable about these game mechanics but it is falling on deaf ears apparently. As as I said two or three times now, there is no additional cargo loss as the norm now is if traders do not comply with demands, they are destroyed for a total cargo loss plus a ship rebuy. Being able to force spill all cargo will allow more traders to live if anything. Whether they go to solo or not after being pirated will have no change. As I said this would majorly effect PvE pirating, and minorly effect PvP pirating.

 

[Mr_Blastman]

Well here's a controversial idea... but the game NEEDS it.

Double trading profits in open.

BAM!

Sudden dramatic increase to trading in open. Pirates rejoice. Food at last. Bounty hunters rejoice. Food at last. Frontier rejoices! More sales!

Everyone wins!

 

[Quineloe]

If it weren't, then people would buy cheaper items, taking on much less risk. Expensive things have a higher margin because one technically has more to lose.

But players would at least be given a choice. I am not saying it should be equal profits but the margins should not be so different. Trading grain right now is throwing your time away right now

 

[Veth]

Ah ok, got it. You're saying if you mine in higher risk areas, like say hi-res instances, then the reward should be greater than right now basically equal at ring belts vs hi-res. I agree, and that would be pretty cool, if not only mining profits were buffed overall, but also layered in some two-tier system where mining in more risky areas were higher profits.

Yeah pretty much. And not just mining but every profession needs that.. though for some it would take some new mechanics / tweaks.

They'd have to do something about the hi-res drop in and move 50km away tactic though - because that's essentially the same low risk (can't say no risk, but the spawns that far out are incredibly few and rare). Maybe a distance limited to the extra mining profit boost from center point of hi-res marker.

RES is already awkward because of the limited distance - you end up going in circles and prospecting the same rocks.
Plus I'm not even sure exactly how they are setup, I've heard the 50km number as well as others, and I don't know if those are guesses, tested numbers, or official or what.

Maybe I'll go test it more today.

I didn't mean to sound like every popular route is camped, but for the truly spectacular ones in my experience so far, they are. A lot of people are happy with 2500 or 3000 credit per ton profit runs. But put it this way, the one I get jumped at all the time is a 4200 CR/ton profit run.

Perhaps I haven't done the super spectacular routes. All in all though I kinda feel like I wish there was more player interaction including piracy, too often the universe feels dead.

I really wish mining would get buffed and that there would be common popular systems so that pirates might go after us miners every once in a while. Just grinding all day is boring to me. The most fun I had when I did trade was getting interdicted and negotiating for my life!

 

[Ben Ryder]

Haven't been smuggling much lately... I'm up to a bit of an adventure which has got a lot of my attention. Just thought I'd chime in and share something that I've always found disappointing regarding smuggling. It's in such a bad state that it has become synonymous with slave trading. Simply because that has proved to be the only way to make a profit shifting prohibited goods because the system is such a mess that it takes away all other options unless you're going to put a slightly sophisticated plan into action. We had two days of good smuggling at it was ruined by not capping the profits on slaves. What happened was a roll back on top of publishing blackmarkets. Since 1.0there have been a number of fixes for smuggling that didn't work and promises that there will be something for smugglers in next patch next release and so on and almost none of them have worked or have been botch jobs that make no sense. My trade rank qualified for elite a long time ago but the last six months of smuggling have not been added and that's bad for all traders looking for something interesting other than flying from a to b.

Ill share my smuggling stuff when I hit elite one day.

Anyone made good credits smuggling anything that was not a slave for more than a couple of days?

Smuggling was outlined as far back as 2013 by Sandro and others devs along with the ddf. I've done a run through if what was lined up and it really is a real shame when compared to what we delivered.

Trading could very easily been fun and exciting if a little more thought and effort had been put into the adventurous side of it.

When a device wrote to me a while back and more or less said Frontier had bitten off more than they can chew it regarding smuggling was a bit of a surprise and when the moderators of the forum were asked for a smuggling area on the forum and the response was there's no appetite for it and that I should post a thread under exploration it really showed that elite dangerous is a bit of a one trick horse that falls over in one way or another every couple of days.

So I carry on regardless and play the game that I want to play even though it's not the one that has been made.

Not a rant. Just down the pub next door to my beautiful little cottage having a swift half before I return to the Frontier to continue my adventures

 

[Stealth Gamer92]

It's in such a bad state that it has become synonymous with slave trading. Simply because that has proved to be the only way to make a profit shifting prohibited goods because the system is such a mess that it takes away all other options unless you're going to put a slightly sophisticated plan into action.

It's also synonymous with boosting through the mail slot in large ship's, which is a joke itself.

 

[Ben Ryder]

It's also synonymous with boosting through the mail slot in large ship's, which is a joke itself.

Hey they made it funnier by the local security paying a trade dividend on smuggled goods. The same goods they were trying to stop you getting in to the station with.

 

[Stealth Gamer92]

Hey they made it funnier by the local security paying a trade dividend on smuggled goods. The same goods they were trying to stop you getting in to the station with.

Really? Dirty cop's gallore, they couldn't stop us so they joined us apparently.

 

[_ZT_]

How fully and finely developers can realize the gameplay for a pirate - to be so much fun to play.
That is my opinion.


Players who do not respect other players, no matter who were not (explorer, trader, fighter for justice \ for a federation or a pirate)
when did not understand the charm of the game E: D
__

That would not be unfounded
my little pirate stat for half a year

Spoiler

Playing as "pirate" is implemented very dim. Only enthusiasts and those who love this thing in the present continue to play a role until the end.
And then .. If there are no pirates in the game (live players) what the game would look like E: D?
In my opinion it will be fresh .. in other words - dull. And first of all for the players to win back the role of other professions

 

[Lord Momo]

Well here's a controversial idea... but the game NEEDS it.

Double trading profits in open.

BAM!

Sudden dramatic increase to trading in open. Pirates rejoice. Food at last. Bounty hunters rejoice. Food at last. Frontier rejoices! More sales!

Everyone wins!

Yes, and I would even go so far to say double more things in open as the players in this game are the only real risk of you being killed, and i have played solo for close to 90% of my game time, i wish open would be more rewarding as it is a lot riskier, also once you get a fine in open, first off it should be more, (I mean i murdered someone with possibly millions worth of cargo if they are a trader and the reward for bringing me to justice is 6,400 cr?) and also you shouldn't be able to just hide in solo until your open bounty wears off, I mean that is silly. This would make open play more risky, more fun, and more rewarding, I personally don't care too much for more money, but a lot of people do and this would make open play much more lively for me at least.

 

[Mr_Blastman]

Yes, and I would even go so far to say double more things in open as the players in this game are the only real risk of you being killed, and i have played solo for close to 90% of my game time, i wish open would be more rewarding as it is a lot riskier, also once you get a fine in open, first off it should be more, (I mean i murdered someone with possibly millions worth of cargo if they are a trader and the reward for bringing me to justice is 6,400 cr?) and also you shouldn't be able to just hide in solo until your open bounty wears off, I mean that is silly. This would make open play more risky, more fun, and more rewarding, I personally don't care too much for more money, but a lot of people do and this would make open play much more lively for me at least.

I've never understood solo, myself. I've never been in it. 100% open here, hard knocks and all. It's thrilling! When I can find players... that is.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

Yes, and I would even go so far to say double more things in open as the players in this game are the only real risk of you being killed, and i have played solo for close to 90% of my game time, i wish open would be more rewarding as it is a lot riskier, also once you get a fine in open, first off it should be more, (I mean i murdered someone with possibly millions worth of cargo if they are a trader and the reward for bringing me to justice is 6,400 cr?) and also you shouldn't be able to just hide in solo until your open bounty wears off, I mean that is silly. This would make open play more risky, more fun, and more rewarding, I personally don't care too much for more money, but a lot of people do and this would make open play much more lively for me at least.

Before the bounty change my bounties would usually climb to close to a million credits before a bounty hunter would finally kill me. Those bounty hunters got quite a paycheck from me. But the current system isn't working. I'm not going to let my bounty get too high and then have to pay the fine. Pirates are poor, remember. So I take a sidewinder into the system and let something kill me.

I agree. Murder should have much larger penalties. I also would like to go back to not paying fines because it's bad for bounty hunters.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Well here is my list:

1) Bounty Hunting, Exploration, Mining, Piracy, Smuggling, Trading (alphabetical)

Every profession should have at least comparible profit potential. I'm not sure why some feel the need to poo all over other play styles instead of wanting to help out the ones that could a boost.

Mining needs some help still. Especially if you take out the awkward mechanic of collecting missions then its really only making 1.5 - 2 million.

PvP Piracy would probably be ok if not for combat logging /solo issues. I'll say no more on that as I don't want to beat that horse. But there is no reason PvE Piracy profits couldn't be increased for those times when player prey is hard to find.

Exploration really could use help. Honestly they could probably quadruple the payout on detailed surface scans and it wouldn't be overpowered. It might not even be enough.

PvE piracy is so close to being worthwhile. We just need destroyed drives to bring their ships to a halt.

 

[VladtheImpaler]

PvE piracy is so close to being worthwhile. We just need destroyed drives to bring their ships to a halt.

I think you mean an EMP harpoon!!! ARRRRR!!!!!