Powerplay: Ideas from the devs - Feedback wanted! #2
- Thread starter Zac Antonaci
- Start date
Well, it would be easier if missions scaled with the ship you currently sit in.
Anaconda = VERY lucrative missions
Eagle = VERY lurative missions...for it's size and value.
It's not like an Anaconda pilot will waste his time chasing a wanted Eagle.
Open, Group play, Solo, that is not a problem because you can never coordinate everything, let we say we are all on open,
and I start to fortificate a system you have not more tools to stop me when I would be in solo, because it can happen I'm in europe you in the us when I do mine task you can be at sleep,
Also about mindless grind it is annoying but natural, in every community you have people that want to do good(organized people), you have people that will do harm(5th column), and people that don't care(grinders)
and I start to fortificate a system you have not more tools to stop me when I would be in solo, because it can happen I'm in europe you in the us when I do mine task you can be at sleep,
Also about mindless grind it is annoying but natural, in every community you have people that want to do good(organized people), you have people that will do harm(5th column), and people that don't care(grinders)
You are not wrong, hence the incentives for mindless merit grinding/5th coloumning must be reduced.
I pointed this out on the first day of powerplay beta:
"The overall success of the power is not rewarded (close to enough)
I am currently earning 350 merits doing a very short hop with leaflets preparing a system that will actually hurt my faction if it joins.
So whilst I earn merits to rise up in rank tiers, I am sabotaging the overall success of my power.
The only rewards that somewhat focusses on the overall success of the power, is the small increase in bonuses for the top three ranked powers overall.
If we are being asked to grind, at least makes us grind in a way that will benefit our faction."
Cheers.
Perhaps we should tie our Merit decay to our CC status at the end of the week and add costs to overpreparing and overfortification.
The more profit we make the less the Merit decay.
-Would make people PLAN where to take stuff
-Overpreparing and overfortification would COST more money for a system (lowering CC profits)
So if we have a 50% decay and a profit margin per week of 20% then our decay is lowered to 30%
For me the issues with PP wont be resolved by tweaking a formula anymore than you could fix a chair with 4 broken legs by stitching a tear in its cushion. The issues that put me off it and make me not even remotely interested in it run far deeper than how protracted you make the powers ultimate demise. And because the inevitable end goal of a power is its ultimate collapse the question, until that is resolved and regardless of any amount of tweaking will always be "what is the point in me doing this?"
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I've read this entire thread, in one sitting, on a tiny junk smartphone screen. That's how much I care about, and am engaged with, Elite Dangerous.
All I can say is, I'm heartened that I'm not the only one who finds the mechanics and lack of integration behind PP extremely disappointing.
I am heartened also that there IS a feedback thread... even if it seems to be caught in a bizarre cul-de-sac of formula fiddling.
My thoughts...
PP needed a DDF.
PP makes me sad inside.
All I can say is, I'm heartened that I'm not the only one who finds the mechanics and lack of integration behind PP extremely disappointing.
I am heartened also that there IS a feedback thread... even if it seems to be caught in a bizarre cul-de-sac of formula fiddling.
My thoughts...
PP needed a DDF.
PP makes me sad inside.
I've read this entire thread, in one sitting, on a tiny junk smartphone screen. That's how much I care about, and am engaged with, Elite Dangerous.
All I can say is, I'm heartened that I'm not the only one who finds the mechanics and lack of integration behind PP extremely disappointing.
I am heartened also that there IS a feedback thread... even if it seems to be caught in a bizarre cul-de-sac of formula fiddling.
My thoughts...
PP needed a DDF.
PP makes me sad inside.
I have a bazillion ideas and concepts for this, but it seems FD will not fundamentally change PP beyond tweaking, which is sad.
You don't fix a poo sandwich by adding a layer of jam.
There have been a lot of great, constructive comments in this thread. However, I think one very, very important question has not been asked of the Devs:
Devs, do you actually play the game? Power Play in particular?
I don't mean going in for a few minutes or even hours to test something. I mean, do you play the game? Do you go home and play it, or stay after your work hours to play? Are you trying to advance your power? Do you look forward to ferrying pamphlets between stations or performing any of the other PP grinds for hours at a time?
I guess I'm just baffled at how you could play your own game and not immediately realize that PP is a grindy, boring, mess. Not to mention other, non PP related issues that, if it were my game and I actually played it, I would have fixed ages ago just because they're so annoying.
Devs, do you actually play the game? Power Play in particular?
I don't mean going in for a few minutes or even hours to test something. I mean, do you play the game? Do you go home and play it, or stay after your work hours to play? Are you trying to advance your power? Do you look forward to ferrying pamphlets between stations or performing any of the other PP grinds for hours at a time?
I guess I'm just baffled at how you could play your own game and not immediately realize that PP is a grindy, boring, mess. Not to mention other, non PP related issues that, if it were my game and I actually played it, I would have fixed ages ago just because they're so annoying.
You know, if your job is HAVING to play Elite alldayerryday, I'm quite sure that a friendly game of cross-department Elite-flavoured Risk is probably quite refreshing and fun. It's people who know each other eminently, competing in good spirits and good faith against each other in a game that would have its disconnectedness from Elite proper be a positive in that environment. "Audio's taking Torval against us in Kappa Epsilon again! Those scoundrels!"
Meanwhile out in the wild, with an actual playerbase and all the diversity that entails, Powerplay is shown to be much more clever and precious than it is enjoyable or rewarding. I think its creators were enamoured with its creation and forgot that they needed it to be fun for more than the people that made it.
Reminds me of the terrible terrible movie Year One, when you see the end bits where the cast and crew are having a blast making the film (if you lived long enough to get that far, that is). Full of great comedic actors, directed and written by a great comedic writer, actor and director; and zero of that made it a good film. The people who enjoyed it most by FAR were the people who made it, not the people who watched it.
Right, this is my attempt at what I would consider PowerPlay:
In ED, we have two tiers of power: Galactic figureheads, and local powers.
Galactic figureheads are the Emperor, the Alliance head of state (Mahon, currently) and the Fed prez. Players have no influence over these figures or the Federation, Alliance or Empire, only FD.
Local powers are like those found on stations. You can make any of them into a power by getting them 95% influence. Similarly, if your power is wiped out, they revert to system factions. If you want them to come back again, you have to build them up to 95% influence once more. Each of these powers is pledged to one of the Galactic leaders that suits them best.
There are many, much more than 20. Each has its 'ethos', which is described like system powers do in the right hand pane of the HUD. Unlike powers now which have a narrow ethical dimension, having multiple powers allows you to find one that suits you best. Each of these expresses its ethos by the missions it gives you on its BB (see a bit later). So, Archon would get more piracy missions, while Antal would get more peaceful missions (e.g. send 20 new prototype tech to system X).
Each local power has a CG- your job (if you agree with its principles) is to get the CG total to Tier 10. If you get to 10 you 'win' for that round, and you get favourite status with that Galactic leader (also, its worth noting, FD alone would deal with Galnet stories at this level, e.g. Mahon is boosted by power x after they avert a humanitarian disaster).
You increase the CG by completing missions provided on that stations BB. As far as you are concerned, a completed mission == credits. Instead of merits however, each missions influence drives the CG up instead. So high influence missions are more valuable, but more dangerous to do. As described earlier, each power has a tendency to have certain types of missions- military powers favour strikes and fighting, while more peaceful powers favour aid missions (most but not all- you would have the odd fighting / aid mission though).
Sometimes you will get 'golden snitch' missions that are risky, but worth a lot of influence. However, if you fail them your CG influence goes down instead (note, normal missions failed do not lower the CG- so 5th col problems are much reduced).
As your power increases its CG, each reward tier provides small perks: for example, Archon may get a -2% reduction in repair costs at tier 3. Specific power based modules do not exist, the only way to get perks is to work for them each week and unlock the tiers. Each perk is random (but not random enough to fall outside your powers ethos).
At the end of the week, all memebers of that power get a payout based on the tier achieved. For example, Tier 10 gets 50 million each. If you decide to leave a power, you still get a percentage of the money- but: players who defect get nothing!
All powers are ranked: the top power for each Galactic figurehead gets a good reward: money off ships, large discounts and so on. Powers who did not get to Tier 1 are reverted to factions, and must be built up again. You will generate a Galnet story about how good you are, and the losing power humiliated in the same way.
As your power grows, you may find your powers 'leach out' into other systems- these branches can be nurtured until they take over that station. If this happens, the second station has the same CG as its parent. However, you will need double the influence to get to Tier 10, triple for three and so on).
There is no 'enemy' status- if you wish to destroy ships for missions, the bounty system is in effect so for that system (and thus local power) you are wanted.
Merit decay does not exist! You put the work in, the CG goes up each week. There is no penalty for having a break other than less CG activity for that power.
All combat bounties pay market rate, so all kills are graded according to ship size and pilot standing.
I've probably forgotten loads of other things- but this is what I would find satisfying, as it weaves CGs, missions, system factions and ED game mechanics together.
In ED, we have two tiers of power: Galactic figureheads, and local powers.
Galactic figureheads are the Emperor, the Alliance head of state (Mahon, currently) and the Fed prez. Players have no influence over these figures or the Federation, Alliance or Empire, only FD.
Local powers are like those found on stations. You can make any of them into a power by getting them 95% influence. Similarly, if your power is wiped out, they revert to system factions. If you want them to come back again, you have to build them up to 95% influence once more. Each of these powers is pledged to one of the Galactic leaders that suits them best.
There are many, much more than 20. Each has its 'ethos', which is described like system powers do in the right hand pane of the HUD. Unlike powers now which have a narrow ethical dimension, having multiple powers allows you to find one that suits you best. Each of these expresses its ethos by the missions it gives you on its BB (see a bit later). So, Archon would get more piracy missions, while Antal would get more peaceful missions (e.g. send 20 new prototype tech to system X).
Each local power has a CG- your job (if you agree with its principles) is to get the CG total to Tier 10. If you get to 10 you 'win' for that round, and you get favourite status with that Galactic leader (also, its worth noting, FD alone would deal with Galnet stories at this level, e.g. Mahon is boosted by power x after they avert a humanitarian disaster).
You increase the CG by completing missions provided on that stations BB. As far as you are concerned, a completed mission == credits. Instead of merits however, each missions influence drives the CG up instead. So high influence missions are more valuable, but more dangerous to do. As described earlier, each power has a tendency to have certain types of missions- military powers favour strikes and fighting, while more peaceful powers favour aid missions (most but not all- you would have the odd fighting / aid mission though).
Sometimes you will get 'golden snitch' missions that are risky, but worth a lot of influence. However, if you fail them your CG influence goes down instead (note, normal missions failed do not lower the CG- so 5th col problems are much reduced).
As your power increases its CG, each reward tier provides small perks: for example, Archon may get a -2% reduction in repair costs at tier 3. Specific power based modules do not exist, the only way to get perks is to work for them each week and unlock the tiers. Each perk is random (but not random enough to fall outside your powers ethos).
At the end of the week, all memebers of that power get a payout based on the tier achieved. For example, Tier 10 gets 50 million each. If you decide to leave a power, you still get a percentage of the money- but: players who defect get nothing!
All powers are ranked: the top power for each Galactic figurehead gets a good reward: money off ships, large discounts and so on. Powers who did not get to Tier 1 are reverted to factions, and must be built up again. You will generate a Galnet story about how good you are, and the losing power humiliated in the same way.
As your power grows, you may find your powers 'leach out' into other systems- these branches can be nurtured until they take over that station. If this happens, the second station has the same CG as its parent. However, you will need double the influence to get to Tier 10, triple for three and so on).
There is no 'enemy' status- if you wish to destroy ships for missions, the bounty system is in effect so for that system (and thus local power) you are wanted.
Merit decay does not exist! You put the work in, the CG goes up each week. There is no penalty for having a break other than less CG activity for that power.
All combat bounties pay market rate, so all kills are graded according to ship size and pilot standing.
I've probably forgotten loads of other things- but this is what I would find satisfying, as it weaves CGs, missions, system factions and ED game mechanics together.
Or maybe just maybe they enjoy different things than you? Yes, I think they play their game, a lot.
Like what?
Watching paint dry?
Economical Statistics?
Tax Law?
Trust me, I've worked with it all and it compares well to a lot of PP gameplay.
Sure, only you know what's enjoyable
That's usually what I think when I read your posts. Funny how that works. >_____>
I have never said I know what's enjoyable for others. What I have been defending is elements of the game I pledged for and I (and it seems devs too) seem to enjoy. Nothing less, nothing more.
I'd be very surprised if the Dev's actually player power play properly. All you do is shout down criticism (and well deserved criticism) with endless smaller and smaller circles of pedantic arguing. In fact Pecisk, I think you actually like grinding so much you 'forum grind'.
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The grind - to this there is only one answer:
If you think its a grind - dont do it. Stop when it feels grindy.
Powerplay IS a grind, but only if you keep doing it. Stop when it feels grindy. You dont HAVE to reach rank5. If you want 50 millions you can most likely come up with funnier ways to boost your credit balance.
Im going to drop ranks this week because I dont feel like "grinding" this week. It wont hurt my credit balance and it wont make my game worse. When ever I feel like it I may join in the undermining/fortification jobs again. I dont care for Archon or his systems, but I care for my experience in the game. So its up to me to chose what I want to do.
This also means I dont care if PowerPlay changes significantly or not, because I will only join in if I feel like doing it or my curiosity is tingled again.
Play more / Grind less.
To Sandro and the crew: Its great that you want to share your thoughts with us. But it really feels like you work secluded from the playerbase.
Adjusting things like that formula is a scary example of the differences between you and your customers.
If you think its a grind - dont do it. Stop when it feels grindy.
Powerplay IS a grind, but only if you keep doing it. Stop when it feels grindy. You dont HAVE to reach rank5. If you want 50 millions you can most likely come up with funnier ways to boost your credit balance.
Im going to drop ranks this week because I dont feel like "grinding" this week. It wont hurt my credit balance and it wont make my game worse. When ever I feel like it I may join in the undermining/fortification jobs again. I dont care for Archon or his systems, but I care for my experience in the game. So its up to me to chose what I want to do.
This also means I dont care if PowerPlay changes significantly or not, because I will only join in if I feel like doing it or my curiosity is tingled again.
Play more / Grind less.
To Sandro and the crew: Its great that you want to share your thoughts with us. But it really feels like you work secluded from the playerbase.
Adjusting things like that formula is a scary example of the differences between you and your customers.
Adjusting that formula is of massive importance to most players participating in powerplay whether they realize it or not.
Without it, I would certainly have stopped my participation.
Not, that I don't think more work is needed to make powerplay compelling.
But its impossible to not grind away. In Antal this week I killed over 500 ships in violent protests. After 250 it was getting dull, but I HAVE to do it otherwise my power gets scewed. The same for fortification. The same task, over and over and over. Its the same base activity with no story, lore or anything to support it. I even get no thanks, at least hauling sewage in a mission the faction thanks me!
At least once I want the Simguru to actually thank us all for keeping Utopia going. Since PP started the powers have said about fifty words each....