Pirates and Traders

[Dragon Darkstar]

I wrote this in another thread. What do you guys think?

There needs to be a real penalty for murdering other players. I propose that instead of the 5000CR bounty the killing player gets for each murder, their bounty should be 1% of the cost of the ship they just destroyed. If a pirate murders a trader in a Type-9, that means that the pirate would get a (roughly) 790.000 bounty on their head for just that kill.............

I approve of this idea (Y)

 

[Valverino]

I wrote this in another thread. What do you guys think?

There needs to be a real penalty for murdering other players. I propose that instead of the 5000CR bounty the killing player gets for each murder, their bounty should be 1% of the cost of the ship they just destroyed. If a pirate murders a trader in a Type-9, that means that the pirate would get a (roughly) 790.000 bounty on their head for just that kill.

Obviously, this would be instantly exploited however; A pirate could just go around and kill Type-# ships and rack up a multi-million bounty in a matter of hours - and then have a friend kill them and split the entire reward. The counter for this would be that the bounty payout one receives for killing a player pirate depends on what ship the pirate is flying, lets say, 10 percent of the pirates ships cost.

For instance:

Pirate kills trader. Traders ship was worth 100m CR. Pirate therefore gets a 1m CR bounty. Pirates ship is worth 1 million CR: BH kills the pirate. Since the pirates ship is worth 1 million CR, and the bounty payout is 10% of that ships value, the payout would therefore be 100k CR. The pirate now has a 900k bounty. Days later, the pirates is flying a ship worth 200k CR: Another BH kills the pirate and based on the cost of the pirates ship, the BH receives 20k CR. The Pirates bounty is now 880k CR. And this keeps going until the entire bounty is off the pirates head. A pirate in a Sidewinder does not give a bounty payout. Otherwise a person with a bounty would just constantly hop into free Sidewinders and sit outside to die until the bounty is paid.

This means that a pirate can not exploit his or her own bounty by having a friend repeatedly killing them, because they would lose money every time.

Math is not my strong side though, maybe the bounty payout needs to be less then the insurance cost for this be un-exploitedable, but you get the idea.


______________

And now for fixing all the professions in relation to each other:

To fix the pirating profession FD needs to fix all the professions. There is currently hardly any Risk Vs Reward (RVR) for any of the professions - including pirates. The Fun Vs Reward (FVR) however is fairly accurate (except for explorers). I suggest following changes to the game.

First we must take the populated space and sort it in categories depending on security. These zones should be Safe (high security) Unsafe (low Security) and Lawless (no Security). Imagine an onion cut in half; the core of the onion are the Safe systems. These are the core systems of each faction. These systems are surrounded by a layer (middle layers of the onion) of Unsafe systems belonging to the factions. These are the systems bordering another factions Unsafe systems. Enveloping both the Safe and Unsafe systems are Lawless systems (the outer layer of the onion).

Now we can define what each security status provides and don't provide.

Safe Systems:
A) Boasting the fastest and strongest police responses, pilots are more safer here than anywhere else. The consequence of this however is that the presence of NPC Pirates are lower, making NPC-bounty hunting not as viable. Player Pirates will have a hard time making a successful pirating career in these systems as well because of how fast and hard law enforcements responds, benefiting traders.
B) These systems features stations ranging from the smallest outposts to the largest stations and populations in the hundreds of millions or billions. Most stations/economies are High Tech and Industrial, Tourism and some Agricultural. Trading man-made goods between Safe Systems nets you only a small margin of profit.
C) You can find all faction-legal commodities in these systems, and they sell all types of ships and modules. Since these systems have a large infrastructure in place already they can (and have) enforced the strict laws of their faction, making the black market a rather big presence here. These systems demand metal and minerals from Unsafe systems, and supply man-made goods to Unsafe systems.
D) Because these systems have been colonized for so long their asteroid belts have been mined out of their most precious minerals and metals long ago. The result is they have a high demand on all types of metals except for the most common and cheapest ones.

Unsafe Systems
A) Mediocre to low strength and speed of response by law enforcements due to being outlying systems. NPC pirates are running fairly wild here making NPC-bounty hunting a good way for combat-oriented players to make money. Player Pirates can do their thing here without being too worried about NPC Police. Because of this, traders are vulnerable.
B) These systems features smaller to medium outposts and stations. Most stations/economies are Extraction, Refinery, Terraforming and some Agricultural. Trading minerals and metals between Unsafe Systems net you only a small margin of profit. These stations only sell some of the ships; mostly the lower rated ones (Asp and below maybe?)
C) Man-made commodities are more scarce than in Safe Systems, but they sell all the different types of metals and minerals. These systems demand man-made commodities and supply metals and minerals. Because of the small presence of law enforcement, all laws are not followed and as a result, not all commodities that are illegal in Safe systems are illegal in Unsafe systems, which gives the black market a smaller presence (and gives smugglers somethings to transport to Safe Systems).
D) These systems have not been exploited as much as Safe systems. They have a lot of good resources in their asteroids (meaning many good RES-points for NPC-bounty hunting). NPC pirates prowl these belts looking for miners.

Lawless systems
These are basicly the unexplored/unpopulated systems. They should mostly have enviromental dangers I guess? I've never explored so maybe an explorer should come up with an idea.

What this creates is a clear supply/demand between Safe and Unsafe systems.
1) Traders: To make the most money, they need to trade between the resource rich Unsafe systems and the well developed Safe systems. Traders can stay in Safe Systems if they want and trade between the stations there, but the profit margins will be a lot lower since all stations demands and supplies similar things.
2) Bounty hunters need to venture out to Unsafe systems to make the most money bounty hunting NPC Pirates. They also work as a deterrence to player pirates looking for traders to raid. Bounty hunters can also stay in Safe systems if they want, but the lower spawn count there means that they won't make as much money.
3) Pirates will have to try and catch traders in Unsafe systems, since they will have a much harder time in Safe systems to do so (unless they are in a wing). They need to be careful however that player bounty hunters won't come for the assistance of the trader. Since Unsafe systems only sell mostly lower rated ships, Pirates need to manage their bounty and thus, try not to kill other traders (if they want to be able to access high quality weapons and ships that is). Pirates will be in a disadvantage towards bounty hunters since bounty hunters can buy bigger ships in Safe systems. Since there is a clear supply/demand pirates should not have a hard time finding targets (both other players but also NPC traders).
4) Smugglers can find all the illegal things in Unsafe systems and sell them in Safe systems. Because the strong law enforcement presence in Safe systems however, they need to be careful.

Risk Vs Reward and Fun Vs Reward
- Trading and mining are the most boring (or peaceful, depending on how you look at it) professions and should be highly profitable since the fun factor is fairly low. Since they need to go to Unsafe systems regularly they are more prone to be attacked by other player and NPC pirates.
- Exploration and smuggling should be the next most profitable professions. Exploration because you're basically playing Solo Mode in Open Play (again, fun vs reward factor) and Smuggling because risk vs reward factor.
- Pirating and Bounty hunting should be equally profiting. These are considered the most fun aspect of the game I'd dare say and thus should have the lowest income (but not as low as today). Pirates will have plenty of targets since most defenseless players (miners and traders) will buy/sell and mine in Unsafe systems to take back to Safe systems. Bounty hunters will have plenty of both player pirates and NPC pirates to hunt.

The map could be divided something like this:
View attachment 50989

sounds a bit like EVE online

 

[agentbeef]

sounds a bit like EVE online

I think as ppl have grown up those of us that loved elite back in the day have subconsciously
picked up good ideas from other space games that we thought should have been in elite,
oh if only it would come back woohoo now if only I could tell them about this idea I saw woohoo.

 

[Slvrsurfer]

I don't understand the whole fun/low income thing. I thought it was risk/reward? So trading is profitable cause its boring? Thought trading was profitable cause it's risky....like, because of pirates? Idk. Everyone wants pk'ING to go away, but aren't those high bounty killers like a bounty hunters best trophies? Since that would be fun to hunt those whales down though, I guess the more people they kill the lower their bounty should actually go. Not trying to be smart, I just honestly don't get fun should equal low income. Real world sim, it seems like difficulty should equal income. It's not easy to start a fortune 500 company right?

 

[mavrac]

Keep the game as is and add a PVE sever with zero aggressive Bot's. This way the players have zero threat of having their ship destroyed by an AI unless they cause the encounter. In return this server is separate and anything earned can't be used in the official server. This way they what they want.

Belittling players that would rather play this game in multiplayer co opt against the environment, out right calling them emotionally fragile, is misguided and immature. And frankly disrespectful. No one has ever asked for what you just proposed.

Yes if and when PVE comes out you wont have to deal with us. No more defenseless traders to kill. Pirating each other should be great fun. Though I'm sure eventually even ppl dedicated to pvp will complain about a wing of conda's going around killing everyone in sight.

What I find interesting is those that have posted against me and others. Those for pking. Have posted angry and immature, and belittling responses. I'm not sure we are the emotional ones.

 

[Mr Cynical]

If you can't see how that removes the ability of psychopaths to dock then you probably shouldn't be making these types of suggestions. Why should I be forced to play in a community minded way? I want to play the game in a way that I find most entertaining and if that means killing others for sport then you can imagine what I'll be doing with my game time.

Completely missing the point again, but it's pretty clear that the way you describe how you want to play the game leads me to understand you are simply a griefer, who is out to annoy as many online players as possible. Well done you.

If you weren't out to annoy other players you could have a lot more fun just attacking npcs all day and night on solo.

I'll say it once more, there should be a seriously high penalty to be paid by players or griefers such as yourself for random killing in the name of piracy. Personally I couldnt give two hoots whether you carry on playing your space pilot psychopath fantasy role or not, but if you cared about the game's online community and growing it, you wouldn't be so selfish.

I can only hope that for the many online players not yet driven to solo, that you get bored of it quickly and move onto the next codblops very soon.

Fly safe out there.

 

[Distance]

Belittling players that would rather play this game in multiplayer co opt against the environment, out right calling them emotionally fragile, is misguided and immature. And frankly disrespectful. No one has ever asked for what you just proposed.

Yes if and when PVE comes out you wont have to deal with us. No more defenseless traders to kill. Pirating each other should be great fun. Though I'm sure eventually even ppl dedicated to pvp will complain about a wing of conda's going around killing everyone in sight.

What will you do once you've traded up to an anaconda?

I'm sure some people do enjoy trading for the sake of it but once you've spent a few hundred hours doing it and want some action it's possible that you might want to try other professions yourself. Once you learn to fly you'll find that the AI are pretty easy to defeat once you know what you're doing and there's no actual reward for co op play right now.

At the end of the day Piracy is a valid play style and so is killing players. You'll have group mode once it goes live on xbox so until then suck it up or stay in solo.

 

[Slvrsurfer]

Belittling players that would rather play this game in multiplayer co opt against the environment, out right calling them emotionally fragile, is misguided and immature. And frankly disrespectful. No one has ever asked for what you just proposed.

Yes if and when PVE comes out you wont have to deal with us. No more defenseless traders to kill. Pirating each other should be great fun. Though I'm sure eventually even ppl dedicated to pvp will complain about a wing of conda's going around killing everyone in sight.

All serious, no immaturity. Who are these wing of anacondas? The pirates? The pk'ers? The traders? Whoever it is, what is stopping anyone from just going somewhere they are not, saving up for their own wing of anacondas and coming back and killing them? Who are these godlike player killers that you are suggesting will eventually take over the galaxy? Anyone can be killed in the right situation, and I find it difficult to believe that the percentage of griefs will reach the level you seem to suggest. If that day comes, I will go solo to save money, open when I want to pvp fight without worrying for losses. It doesn't bother me.

 

[UnderZeroh]

Im only new so go easy….

I can see both sides of the coin. I think it does make for interesting game play and I also think there should more game mechanics to support it, either retribution or dynamic insurance or something.

Imagine sailing down the coast of Somalia with a cargo right now. It's a reality but I bet the odds are also slim too. You can bet the insurance companies are loving it or dare I say fostering it. Then the Navy jumps in. It's all reality if you ask me and this is a simulator. But I understand the costs to a player and moreover the hours lost to them especially in the beginning need to be addressed.

What I do like is the energy it creates, I remember playing COD MW2 where 2 or more players (boosters) could tactically insert and rank up quickly raining killstreaks on all the 'fair' players who would get annoyed about it including me. So I decided to go after them. And I got real good at it. I had special "booster" load outs even. Then they were the ones getting annoyed because they weren't playing the game fair OR their way. They just got crushed.
When they took away the ability for ppl to 'boost', I felt the game was missing something, yet something had to be done also.

The fact that there people out there prepared to take on the grievers I think is completely awesome. What a great game dynamic. Griefers V Gods. Kirk v Khan. Brilliant.!!!!

 

[Slvrsurfer]

Im only new so go easy….

I can see both sides of the coin. I think it does make for interesting game play and I also think there should more game mechanics to support it, either retribution or dynamic insurance or something.

Imagine sailing down the coast of Somalia with a cargo right now. It's a reality but I bet the odds are also slim too. You can bet the insurance companies are loving it or dare I say fostering it. Then the Navy jumps in. It's all reality if you ask me and this is a simulator. But I understand the costs to a player and moreover the hours lost to them especially in the beginning need to be addressed.

What I do like is the energy it creates, I remember playing COD MW2 where 2 or more players (boosters) could tactically insert and rank up quickly raining killstreaks on all the 'fair' players who would get annoyed about it including me. So I decided to go after them. And I got real good at it. I had special "booster" load outs even. Then they were the ones getting annoyed because they weren't playing the game fair OR their way. They just got crushed.
When they took away the ability for ppl to 'boost', I felt the game was missing something, yet something had to be done also.

The fact that there people out there prepared to take on the grievers I think is completely awesome. What a great game dynamic. Griefers V Gods. Kirk v Khan. Brilliant.!!!!

Interesting take. I can't honestly say why some people want the killers to go away. It can create some epic game play opportunities. Plus, why wouldn't bounty hunters want those 400 million bounty opportunities? Kirk vs khan, lol.

 

[mavrac]

All serious, no immaturity. Who are these wing of anacondas? The pirates? The pk'ers? The traders? Whoever it is, what is stopping anyone from just going somewhere they are not, saving up for their own wing of anacondas and coming back and killing them? Who are these godlike player killers that you are suggesting will eventually take over the galaxy? Anyone can be killed in the right situation, and I find it difficult to believe that the percentage of griefs will reach the level you seem to suggest. If that day comes, I will go solo to save money, open when I want to pvp fight without worrying for losses. It doesn't bother me.

You have obviously not played this on PC. Though we aren't talking every player or every day but it happens ppl get mass amounts of money get bored wing up and camp res, stations, or posts, just to do it. You shouldn't contradict without something to back it up. I've been playing PC since beta launch though most aren't at that level on Xbox that day will come, and PVE will be a much better place to be.

I am almost elite in both combat and trading on Xbox, money isn't an issue and if I was a player that pked I could spawn camp a station and just kill, no recourse, that's not right. So I get a sad bounty, who cares, so eventually I'll die, dude money is not an issue. If you've read my posts yes I trade with a T9 and have no issue stopping to give some cargo to pirates but pkers that isn't cool

 

[Evasive Agent]

You have obviously not played this on PC. Though we aren't talking every player or every day but it happens ppl get mass amounts of money get bored wing up and camp res, stations, or posts, just to do it. You shouldn't contradict without something to back it up. I've been playing PC since beta launch though most aren't at that level on Xbox that day will come, and PVE will be a much better place to be.

I am almost elite in both combat and trading on Xbox, money isn't an issue and if I was a player that pked I could spawn camp a station and just kill, no recourse, that's not right. So I get a sad bounty, who cares, so eventually I'll die, dude money is not an issue. If you've read my posts yes I trade with a T9 and have no issue stopping to give some cargo to pirates but pkers that isn't cool

My lord! Are you still going on about piracy!? I've got a 5 yr. old that cry's less than you do. I just joined this forum a few days ago and I already know who the voice of irritation is. Read your comments on this thread calling people immature!? You should seriously think about counseling, and why do you feel it necessary to insult people. You should calm down and stay away from video games if they are going to mess with your head like this. And before you respond to me trying to change pace and sound intellectual, don't. You're not. You're acting like a child. It's time to grow up.

 

[Slvrsurfer]

You have obviously not played this on PC. Though we aren't talking every player or every day but it happens ppl get mass amounts of money get bored wing up and camp res, stations, or posts, just to do it. You shouldn't contradict without something to back it up. I've been playing PC since beta launch though most aren't at that level on Xbox that day will come, and PVE will be a much better place to be.

I am almost elite in both combat and trading on Xbox, money isn't an issue and if I was a player that pked I could spawn camp a station and just kill, no recourse, that's not right. So I get a sad bounty, who cares, so eventually I'll die, dude money is not an issue. If you've read my posts yes I trade with a T9 and have no issue stopping to give some cargo to pirates but pkers that isn't cool

I have played on pc. I didn't find it to be a problem. I went solo or private if alone and couldn't run the gambit. That was not an issue to me. Not sure how I am contradicting you, I just think you are making the whole thing a little exaggerated. I really hope you get your private group soon though.

 

[UnderZeroh]

Just met some friendly pirates in Altair. Didn't say much but they let me go after a scan cause I was empty. Pretty tense for a minute tho, i'm in an expensive Asp with no shields, thought they might cut me up because I had nothing. But I gingerly engaged FSD and left. Might drop them some candy outside the station as I leave. ;-)

 

[Dhan]

Belittling players that would rather play this game in multiplayer co opt against the environment, out right calling them emotionally fragile, is misguided and immature. And frankly disrespectful. No one has ever asked for what you just proposed.

Yes if and when PVE comes out you wont have to deal with us. No more defenseless traders to kill. Pirating each other should be great fun. Though I'm sure eventually even ppl dedicated to pvp will complain about a wing of conda's going around killing everyone in sight.

What I find interesting is those that have posted against me and others. Those for pking. Have posted angry and immature, and belittling responses. I'm not sure we are the emotional ones.

Belittling players that would rather play this game as murderers and scumbags, out right calling them immature, is misguided and...immature. Literally every reply you make to someone who's playstyle you don't agree with you call them immature so pardon me while I laugh at such a silly post.

Completely missing the point again, but it's pretty clear that the way you describe how you want to play the game leads me to understand you are simply a griefer, who is out to annoy as many online players as possible. Well done you.

If you weren't out to annoy other players you could have a lot more fun just attacking npcs all day and night on solo.

I'll say it once more, there should be a seriously high penalty to be paid by players or griefers such as yourself for random killing in the name of piracy. Personally I couldnt give two hoots whether you carry on playing your space pilot psychopath fantasy role or not, but if you cared about the game's online community and growing it, you wouldn't be so selfish.

I can only hope that for the many online players not yet driven to solo, that you get bored of it quickly and move onto the next codblops very soon.

Fly safe out there.

Ouch, labeling me a griefer and throwing me in the same boat as others just like that? Harsh.

It seems it is you who is missing the point here. I was saying how your idea was rubbish, yet somehow you missed that. And I'll repeat it again, I agree that murderers should have harsher consequences for their actions.

I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that I am only here to get the most enjoyment from the game as I can. I'm not here to play for others. Luckily for me, I don't really mind the labels or insults so knock yourself out.

 

[Slvrsurfer]

"Are you an assassin?"
"No, I'm a soldier."
Colonel Kurtz leans forward, "You are neither. You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks......"

 

[UnderZeroh]

"Are you an assassin?"
"No, I'm a soldier."
Colonel Kurtz leans forward, "You are neither. You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks......"

Crawl along the edge of a straight razor….

The horror. The horror.

 

[Slvrsurfer]

Crawl along the edge of a straight razor….

The horror. The horror.

That's my dream. That's my nightmare.

 

[Mr Cynical]

Ouch, labeling me a griefer and throwing me in the same boat as others just like that? Harsh.

It seems it is you who is missing the point here. I was saying how your idea was rubbish, yet somehow you missed that. And I'll repeat it again, I agree that murderers should have harsher consequences for their actions.

I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that I am only here to get the most enjoyment from the game as I can. I'm not here to play for others. Luckily for me, I don't really mind the labels or insults so knock yourself out.

Your own posts label you a griefer - deliberately targeting other online players to annoy them and give you enjoyment - thats pretty much the definition I think. Harsh? Not at all. If the shoe fits...
Like I said in my post, I really dont give two hoots whether you continue to do that anyway.
I quite liked my ideas too (extreme maybe) but then it's obvious that a griefer would not like them as if implemented, they would clearly have a huge penalty for their behaviour.

It's interesting that you don't see your behaviour ingame to get your own enjoyment as griefing. Just ask yourself how you'd feel if someone more powerfully equipped kept on killing you constantly ingame, for no other reason than their enjoyment. Bet you'd get real tired of open mode very quickly.

Still, it's only a game, isn't it?

 

[Muawijhe]

Interesting that Frontier programmed the AI to act the same way as a player you label a griefer.

If you are going to push an agenda at least be truthful. Let people know the real reason why you want to see players harshly punished for the same action the AI is programmed to do.