Sarah moved from current project, update no longer coming?

[Jason S]

I think ED will get greater each year.

Even if I am wrong and FD treats it as a cash cow, then in a the years to follow the open source community can come up with a new DDF inspired Oolite with all the graphics ED has now. There is nothing to stop that happening. So actually I am not worried, I just sit and wait with patience. And I do think FD will continue to enhance this game lots.

 

[Titus Balls]

And without that original one seventh the game would have failed its Kick starter and either shelved until private finance could have been found or wrapped up altogether.
I maintain that kickstarter projects have more of an obligation to keep their customers more informed than company financing and SJA was doing just that.

Personally I feel there is far too much secrecy in the business world in general as secrecy allows all sorts of moral and illegal actions to take place in the business, and political world.
The time for openness and more honesty has long been passed, as evidenced by the Bank shenanigans and politicians expenses claims to name just two.

The minute the Kickstarter was delivered on (and I know there is some debate as to if the game in it's current state is that - but I can assure you it is) Frontier had NO obligation, moral or legal, to continue to be so open.

You are correct, the Kickstarter did help - by giving Frontier enough capital to start, and show that there is interest to secure a much higher level of capital, which Frontier I can assure will have a more legal requirement to report to.

That is why we don't have the developer videos anymore. That is why there is no active DDF discussing upcoming features, and why the release of Powerplay was a surprise to most.

Sorry to burst your emotional bubble but if you're looking for Frontier to hand hold the community through every business decision then I'm afraid you'll be massively disappointed.

Frontier is not a bank, and not regulated by the FSA. Frontier is not a political party, and is not voted in by the public - they are a business. They are only answerable to the shareholders, the markets, companies house and the HMRC.

 

[Athan]

It's not only that we're apparently not going to see SJA complete her work (and unclear right now how soon we'll see any of it make it live), it's that we're also losing the lovely interaction with her on these forums (and to a lesser degree twitter).

I've not been in much of a book reading mood lately, but anyone who wants to help cheer SJA up could do worse than buying one of her books. Anyone here read any of them already and can comment on how good they are ?

 

[Lord_Crazy]

Isn't that what the DDF was? Why is it so foolish? Don't reply to me with such arrogance.

It is foolish because if you gather thousands of people and try to get a consensus before you make any significant decision, it will result in you never making any decision. That's not how things work, sometimes someone has to decide and move on.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I wish David had created a separate independent studio to develop it. If he really cared about his game this would have been a better route.

LOL... FD is his independent studio!

As for people defending the business processes, haven't seen much of that, your "all the white knights" comment seems to be off target (unless i've missed reading some posts). Even those who are saying that some aspects are understandable from a business perspective still seem to think its wrong.

 

[FuzzySpider]

To be honest, I can reply to you in any manner I wish as long as I adhere to the rules of the forum.

So you believe that FD should consult all players to ascertain what they should implement next or what problem should be given maximum work effort to fix? So would it be majority rules, Alpha backers get two votes, console players only get half a vote, you have to be a certain rank to be able to have a say. Please, enlighten us!

Should a service consult their customer on what they want before offering it to them?

I'd say yes.

Of course they aren't beholden to carry out that customers demands, but they'd be foolish to not at least consider the point of view of the customer.

Frontier is not a bank, and not regulated by the FSA. Frontier is not a political party, and is not voted in by the public - they are a business. They are only answerable to the shareholders, the markets, companies house and the HMRC.

Exactly!

But we are the market.

 

[Oss133]

Should a service consult their customer on what they want before offering it to them?

Tell that to the Pot Noodle people. Nobody wanted it but marketing sold it to them anyway.

 

[Athan]

Eh, sod it, I'll even hold my nose at buying through Amazon, "The Spirit of a Witch" bought.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

It is foolish because if you gather thousands of people and try to get a consensus before you make any significant decision, it will result in you never making any decision. That's not how things work, sometimes someone has to decide and move on.

I am not sure you get what the Design Descision Forum was to be honest (either that or I dont!)... ultimately it finished with an agreed "gold standard" which was posted by the devs as a model to aim for for each mechanic in the game.

This of course is not the same as saying EVERY DDF finalised proposal had to be stuck to like it was the law or anything, but given players paid a lot of money to be involved in this, I do not think an explanation for each mechanic where there is a difference from the DDF and reality from the devs is too much to ask

ie along the lines for the following for each mechanic.......
its interim and is currently still being fleshed out to get towards the final DDF proposal
we feel our solution is a better fit for the current direction of the game
sadly the DDF idea whilst good was just not workable

 

[Agony_Aunt]

b) Frontier lack a dedicated community manager - someone to relay information between developers and the community. THAT person should be active like crazy on the forums.

I normally hold a polar opposite view of most things you say on the forums, but in this i'm totally with you.

When Zac started it looked promising, but (and while i appreciate he probably has lots of work behind the scenes) he is now down to just a few posts a day at best.

I'd expect a good community manager to be commenting in all major threads, laying to rest rumours and speculation, giving out facts where needed, answering general questions or if they can't getting the answers to them.

I'd seriously expect an engaged community manager with a forum this active to be making upwards of 50 posts a day.

 

[timbow]

SJA has a contract with her employer, she is there to do what her employer needs her to do.

By interacting with the forum in the way she has, she has almost set a precedent on delivery of the AI changes, something which is not necessarily in FDEV's current plan, so she has compromised her employer. Her tweet was not professional, and probably in breach of her contract of employment.

If I did something like that, I would be having a no tea, no biscuits meeting with my manager and HR...

 

[Jason S]

Exactly!

But we are the market.

We are the consumer market but there is the stock market also.

And, I would say a large proportion of the people on these forums are the hardcore market, not the casual market.

 

[Titus Balls]

Exactly!

But we are the market.

Yes, and you've already given your money over. Probably several times over.

If Frontier wanted to, they could stop development tomorrow - declare that the release of the game was a success and take the profit and pump it into Planet Coaster.

Sure they'd loose a few sales from angry ED customers. But the - probably million people - who don't care about such things and love coaster games and especially don't care about whiney middle-aged men on a forum will make them a fortune.

TL;DR - We are a market, but we're still niche in comparison to Frontier's other IPs

 

[kreuzbichler]

LOL... FD is his independent studio!

Independent developer don´t live in the rear of Microsoft doing exclusive Xbone console stuff for a PC crowdfunded title buddy

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

The minute the Kickstarter was delivered on (and I know there is some debate as to if the game in it's current state is that - but I can assure you it is) Frontier had NO obligation, moral or legal, to continue to be so open.

This. The problem, of course, is in the 'what was delivered'. There are undoubtedly shades of grey here. DBOBE went out of his way, multiple times, to stress that they delivered "a complete game" in December. Lots of people on here complain that the game is still only really in beta. There is no absolute truth, and the only way to try to establish one is to spend a fortune on lawyers to argue it out - which is not going to happen. Personally, I think FD still have a moral obligation to deliver against the vision DBOBE made during the kickstarter. But FD will never agree to that in public, since they have to maintain their stance that the game was complete when released.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Yes, and you've already given your money over. Probably several times over.

If Frontier wanted to, they could stop development tomorrow - declare that the release of the game was a success and take the profit and pump it into Planet Coaster.

Sure they'd loose a few sales from angry ED customers. But the - probably million people - who don't care about such things and love coaster games and especially don't care about whiney middle-aged men on a forum will make them a fortune.

They wouldn't get another kickstarter going. We're also the gamer market. While the gamer market is probably the most masochistic and stupid of all consumer markets (we're still preordering games even though every publisher out there abuses us) repeatedly failing to deliver will eventually catch up with you.

 

[lysan]

SJA has a contract with her employer, she is there to do what her employer needs her to do.

By interacting with the forum in the way she has, she has almost set a precedent on delivery of the AI changes, something which is not necessarily in FDEV's current plan, so she has compromised her employer. Her tweet was not professional, and probably in breach of her contract of employment.

If I did something like that, I would be having a no tea, no biscuits meeting with my manager and HR...

That's all fine an dandy, however there has been many opportunities to stop it before the damage was done. So if anyone is to blame it's the people above her as they should have pulled her aside and said, please stop interaction with the community regarding specific projects, Period! full stop!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Independent developer don´t live in the rear of Microsoft doing exclusive Xbone console stuff for a PC crowdfunded title buddy

Erm... what?

 

[jabokai]

...This industry is creating dreams, dreams create emotions and you better damn well learn how to control them if you don't want an angry mop roaming the streets.

Damn straight!

 

[Lord_Crazy]

It remains to be seen whether FD management is anything but yet another bunch of heartless technocrats. This debacle here points quite clearly in that direction.

Really? We have no information whatsoever, yet you allow yourself to question the management and even insult them. That's preposterous.