'conda more agile than FdL

[Snarfbuckle]

Honestly, a ship the size of the Anaconda with a described maneuverability of 2 SHOULD really be "2" in all aspects.

It's a LARGE ship and if anything it's turn/twist/yaw/pitch etc should be either slow, or it should have momentum, like a ship where you need to counter the thrust.

 

[Evil]

Annie! Annie! Annie!

I love saying Annie.

I prefer..

Get to the Conda ! Arnieconda !

 

[Hydrino]

Agree that bigger ships should not out-maneuver smaller ones, esp. fighter class. Physics is what it is, but I have a hard time reconciling Anacondas that are as agile as much smaller ships. Perhaps the maneuvering thrusters are a bit over-powered. An Anaconda that is basically stationary and had high-powered maneuvering thrusters could turret in place, and basically can do that today. But in a game like ED where the idea is to force ships to fly like planes for fun factor, F63, Sidewinder, Viper, Cobra should all probably have little issue sticking to an Anaconda's backside and tearing into the main thrusters. Thus the Anaconda and other large ships should have at least one of their limited hardpoints at the rear and probably a bulkhead to prevent power plant popping if a main thruster is breached.

Common sense from WWII bombers that could not shake fighters from their six; tail-gunners.

On the subject of turrets, there is a logical reason they are not as powerful as gimballed and those not as much as fixed weapons. The machinery and connections required to enable turrets detracts from the weapon size and power available. So to get really high-powered turrets takes really large hard-points which means like Destroyer or Interdictor class vessels. A high-powered turret on a Viper that is just as good as a fixed weapon does not make sense to me at all.

 

[Bokugo]

Honestly even though I enjoy flying the FDL I can't help but think it's gimped because of how FD makes ship stats. It's hard for me to understand how the FDL only weighing 20t more than the Vulture with the same thrusters has such a vast difference in performance.

Imo the FDL would be perfect if it had higher class thrusters and two class 3 mounts (on the side ones since it looks like a class 3 fit there before FD realized they had an issue with power)

I'm also curious as to why combat ships have such pathetic power plants. Seems like that would be the next biggest priority for making a ship, right behind weapon mounts.

 

[Io_Sys]

Every time an anaconda manages to turn that whale of a ship prow towards me I cry a little inside.

I mean, how many SCBs can it power again? 9?
And it's still able to turn like this?

#tears

 

[Bokugo]

Every time an anaconda manages to turn that whale of a ship prow towards me I cry a little inside.

I mean, how many SCBs can it power again? 9?
And it's still able to turn like this?

#tears

Yeah it's kind of silly multi roles are better at pretty much everything than their specialized counterparts.

 

[Bortas]

Physics is what it is, but I have a hard time reconciling Anacondas that are as agile as much smaller ships.

Anacondas are not even remotely as agile. As someone else stated, if an Anaconda is more agile than your fighter, you are doing something wrong. The fact it can get everything in it's sight by moving backwards doesn't mean, it's more maneuverable.

An Anaconda that is basically stationary and had high-powered maneuvering thrusters could turret in place, and basically can do that today.

No, it can't. Turrets were always weak and with 1.3 FD made them entirely useless. FD wants us to use fixed weapons only. This only works, if you can get your enemy in front of your guns.

Common sense from WWII bombers that could not shake fighters from their six; tail-gunners.

Spaceships are not planes. Spaceships can fly reverse. It doesn't make a difference, though... flying reverse, its front becomes it tail.

 

[Majinvash]

Please don't get the Conda nerfed.

Everyone seems to think its the GOD ship.

It is and it isn't.

It is one of the least effective ships in combat unless the ship you are fighting decided to stay in range.

Trust me when I say I have a lot of experience of chasing battles, trying to catch up after the install shock and awe has passed.

The Conda has huge engines, they should be enough to give it the pitch it has.

Once the condas shields drop, it is one of the quickest and easiest ships to kill.

DO NOT NERF or TRY AND GET IT NERFED!

Majinvash

 

[Evil]

Please don't get the Conda nerfed.

Everyone seems to think its the GOD ship.

It is and it isn't.

It is one of the least effective ships in combat unless the ship you are fighting decided to stay in range.

Trust me when I say I have a lot of experience of chasing battles, trying to catch up after the install shock and awe has passed.

The Conda has huge engines, they should be enough to give it the pitch it has.

Once the condas shields drop, it is one of the quickest and easiest ships to kill.

DO NOT NERF or TRY AND GET IT NERFED!

Majinvash

Yeah, its a defensive ship in most cases, but in a wing it can be an offensive ship, forcing most if not all other ships (not condas) to retreat.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Please don't get the Conda nerfed.

Everyone seems to think its the GOD ship.

It is and it isn't.

It is one of the least effective ships in combat unless the ship you are fighting decided to stay in range.

Trust me when I say I have a lot of experience of chasing battles, trying to catch up after the install shock and awe has passed.

The Conda has huge engines, they should be enough to give it the pitch it has.

Once the condas shields drop, it is one of the quickest and easiest ships to kill.

DO NOT NERF or TRY AND GET IT NERFED!

Majinvash

Do those huge engines have thrust vector control, like the Type 9? Otherwise, they don't affect pitch.

I do believe that it is the easiest ship to kill in large-scale PvP after it loses shields, but I think that along with a maneuverability nerf, it should get an armor buff. A huge armor buff. Besides, power-plant sniping is going to be (mostly) a thing of the past in 1.4.

I don't believe it's poor speed should be enough to allow it to retain it's maneuverability. Fight or not to fight? Doesn't seem very fun, not very tactical.

 

[Darrett]

Please don't get the Conda nerfed.

Everyone seems to think its the GOD ship.

It is and it isn't.

It is one of the least effective ships in combat unless the ship you are fighting decided to stay in range.

Trust me when I say I have a lot of experience of chasing battles, trying to catch up after the install shock and awe has passed.

The Conda has huge engines, they should be enough to give it the pitch it has.

Once the condas shields drop, it is one of the quickest and easiest ships to kill.

DO NOT NERF or TRY AND GET IT NERFED!

Majinvash

If you have a ship that is able to defeat any other ship at any time provided the target ship doesn't run away, there's a design flaw.

Right now it's not a major problem because we don't have anything to fight over- if they put in player controlled stations or conflict zones that directly impact system control where running from a fight isn't an option, then it'll become a major problem.

 

[h347h]

Yeah it's kind of silly multi roles are better at pretty much everything than their specialized counterparts.

This has been the only legitimate complaint I've read in this thread.

 

[mossfoot]

If you have a ship that is able to defeat any other ship at any time provided the target ship doesn't run away, there's a design flaw.

Right now it's not a major problem because we don't have anything to fight over- if they put in player controlled stations or conflict zones that directly impact system control where running from a fight isn't an option, then it'll become a major problem.

But the Anaconda is not like that - you see plenty of people saying how you can stay in its blind side to avoid being hit. Also, if three ships are attacking it, it's either splitting its attention on one or splitting its firepower on all. It's not a ship you should be able to go head-to-head with exchanging full firepower on in anything that isn't just as big and expect to come out on top. You need to dance around it and use your speed (if you have it) to your advantage. And in some cases, you need to know when you're out matched and just bow out.

It's not a battleship, but it is the closest thing a player can get to one. It shouldn't be something you can take down like any other ship at any time. Not everything is about "balance" to the degree that you could have a debate about "Viper or Anaconda, which should I use in a straight up fight?"

Also, if it's so slow to turn that you simply have to rely on nothing but turrets to hit anything, then it's not much fun to play as a combat ship. In a single pilot game (no human wing) the only way nerfing the Anaconda's maneuverability will make sense is by either having live crew on your ship (able to man the turrets and help provide you situational awareness) or NPC wingmen (fighters to provide support if you can't get your own wing). In these cases the lack of maneuverability would be compensated for in some fashion.

As the game stands, it should probably remain as is.

 

[Parmo]

Ok, he'll rip your potassium fueled goodness out. And probably eat it.

It's where the skin is thrown that bothers me!

 

[Majinvash]

If you have a ship that is able to defeat any other ship at any time provided the target ship doesn't run away, there's a design flaw.

Right now it's not a major problem because we don't have anything to fight over- if they put in player controlled stations or conflict zones that directly impact system control where running from a fight isn't an option, then it'll become a major problem.

The Conda isn't that strong when you fight against a competent Python or an FDL.
Even in defence you stick it in a situation where it gets targeted ( EVERY situation ) and making it handle like a tank people would force people to run turrets.
So nerfing its fight model wouldn't just hit one aspect of it.
If its only way of hitting things is to run turrets, fewer competent players will run it and instead switch to Python.
Even if power plant sniping is going and hull strength increases, if the best you can do is sit there and flair about as you get smashed to bits while your turrets get chaffed into near uselessness. It’s going to become a pointless ship, like it was before shield boosters.

This is the same argument about shield cells.

The whole combat model is fundamentally broken, that making all ships realistic in flight models would could have huge knockon effects to PVP players, it’s not going to bother PVE because NPC’s are cake.

Majinvash

 

[h347h]

The ONLY issues with combat right now are SCBs. Which cascades down into generalist ships out fighting ships meant purely for combat. The way the anaconda can pitch and yaw is fine. The design for the FDL is meant for it to be a dive bomb style fighter. It does that role just fine. Once you understand its strengths and weaknesses its a great ship for pvp. Arguably the best in a wing. The best solution to SCBs should be that you only get to fit one just like shield generators or any other vital module.

 

[Majinvash]

The ONLY issues with combat right now are SCBs. Which cascades down into generalist ships out fighting ships meant purely for combat. The way the anaconda can pitch and yaw is fine. The design for the FDL is meant for it to be a dive bomb style fighter. It does that role just fine. Once you understand its strengths and weaknesses its a great ship for pvp. Arguably the best in a wing. The best solution to SCBs should be that you only get to fit one just like shield generators or any other vital module.

NO NO NO!

Its not an issue in that sense on its own.

Yes there is an issue with Shield Cell boosters but its only part of the huge problem.

Limiting 1 SCB to a large ship is at best giving it 200(ish) MJ every 5 seconds.
When that ship is being hit by 4 lots of ships, you may as well not because that the difference it will make.
This is why stacking happens with the larger ships.

Either make the cell charging abilities based on the shields its supporting or you will loose large ships from combat UNLESS they become armoured tanks in 1.4.
Even then, if they leave module damage on, people will just drop large ship shields, hit the boosters and then just meh.. You see where I am going.

I admit that shield cell tanking is making this game a bit dull but limiting to one, is again. Not a solution overall and would damage more than it would help.

If my half billion conda cannot tank alot of damage and keep fighting, I wont bring it.
If I wont, others wont and you will just have vultures and fdls fighting. Nothing bigger or more varied.

Majinvash

 

[ianw]

If you have a ship that is able to defeat any other ship at any time provided the target ship doesn't run away, there's a design flaw.

Right now it's not a major problem because we don't have anything to fight over- if they put in player controlled stations or conflict zones that directly impact system control where running from a fight isn't an option, then it'll become a major problem.

Well in that scenario you'd need multiple smaller ships to defeat the bigger ship - which seems to make sense. Or bring another Anaconda to the Anaconda fight - no?

NO NO NO!

Its not an issue in that sense on its own.

Yes there is an issue with Shield Cell boosters but its only part of the huge problem.

Limiting 1 SCB to a large ship is at best giving it 200(ish) MJ every 5 seconds.
When that ship is being hit by 4 lots of ships, you may as well not because that the difference it will make.
This is why stacking happens with the larger ships.

Either make the cell charging abilities based on the shields its supporting or you will loose large ships from combat UNLESS they become armoured tanks in 1.4.
Even then, if they leave module damage on, people will just drop large ship shields, hit the boosters and then just meh.. You see where I am going.

I admit that shield cell tanking is making this game a bit dull but limiting to one, is again. Not a solution overall and would damage more than it would help.

If my half billion conda cannot tank alot of damage and keep fighting, I wont bring it.
If I wont, others wont and you will just have vultures and fdls fighting. Nothing bigger or more varied.

Majinvash

Sounds about right to me.

 

[Evil]

The Conda isn't that strong when you fight against a competent Python or an FDL.
Even in defence you stick it in a situation where it gets targeted ( EVERY situation ) and making it handle like a tank people would force people to run turrets.
So nerfing its fight model wouldn't just hit one aspect of it.
If its only way of hitting things is to run turrets, fewer competent players will run it and instead switch to Python.
Even if power plant sniping is going and hull strength increases, if the best you can do is sit there and flair about as you get smashed to bits while your turrets get chaffed into near uselessness. It’s going to become a pointless ship, like it was before shield boosters.

This is the same argument about shield cells.

The whole combat model is fundamentally broken, that making all ships realistic in flight models would could have huge knockon effects to PVP players, it’s not going to bother PVE because NPC’s are cake.

Majinvash

Well hum, 2 equally well skilled pilots, the only thing that will kill a conda is another conda, once the conda is in FAoff reverse boost mode, the fixed weapon fire power on the conda is too much for anything else. You can ask how well skafs did in a vulture trying to even catch thorrn, heh, I think it was under 10 sec and skafs shield were gone, and he didn't even scratch the conda's shields, or even get that close to him.

But a wise pilot in a weaker ship just bugs out, until a trap is set

 

[Morbad]

FDL doesn't need any buffs.

If you don't touch your vertical or lateral thrusters, it does not have a tight turn radius. The solution is to use your thrusters.

Common sense from WWII bombers that could not shake fighters from their six; tail-gunners.

This is more due formation flying than anything, and the usefulness of such gun placements, or even any defensive guns on bombers at all, was pretty short lived.

Please don't get the Conda nerfed.

The Anaconda doesn't need any changes either.