Traders: why play in open if you're just going to combat log?

[M00ka]

so long as you only get a 6g fine for killing someone vs a ? re buy for the victim what do you expect? for the circle of grief to be completed, the murdering toerags need to be subjected to the same scenario. all the re buys you inflict should come out of your pocket when you die, knobs, sooner or later end up in lower tier ships, legit pirates are unaffected.

I actually like that idea, the bounty/fine you receive for killing a clean ship is what the Insurance rebuy is, plus the cost of any cargo the ship is holding. Might make someone think twice before destroying that T9 full of slaves And it will make Bounty Hunting very profitable .

But for this to work, you can't have the ability to clear a bounty by the Sidewinder suicide bit. How about the bounty is linked to the Commander AND the ship, and if you sell the ship, the bounty is added to the purchase price.

Just food for thought .......

 

[GeneralZod]

We need tougher law in the systems where there is law. This way harmless traders will have areas to feel safe in. We also need a meaningful economy so that going to a anarchy system will be a reward that is worth the risk. If the harmless trader decides to go to an anarchy system for that big profit on his goods, he knew the risk. If he gets his goods plundered or just gets murdered there, don't feel sorry for him.

As for combat logging I'm in favor of the culprit going back to their last save so at least they are inconvenienced. If you have such an unstable connection that you always drop out as some claim, go solo, otherwise you are just ruining open play for everyone else. Why would you be in open with an unstable connection anyway?

 

[Sandmann]

We need tougher law in the systems where there is law. This way harmless traders will have areas to feel safe in. We also need a meaningful economy so that going to a anarchy system will be a reward that is worth the risk. If the harmless trader decides to go to an anarchy system for that big profit on his goods, he knew the risk. If he gets his goods plundered or just gets murdered there, don't feel sorry for him.

As for combat logging I'm in favor of the culprit going back to their last save so at least they are inconvenienced. If you have such an unstable connection that you always drop out as some claim, go solo, otherwise you are just ruining open play for everyone else. Why would you be in open with an unstable connection anyway?

This man speaks wisely. +1.

 

[Vow]

... or maybe they're looking for the advertised "primarily coop game" that was promised? The game's also not supposed to work where you poke your head out in a sidey and someone in a python blows it off for having a hollow square.

I refined what I said with "They only want the good of open without the bad" that is exactly what you said isn't?


That's just your opinion. I happen to like non consensual pvp, being on both sides of it. It's what makes elite fun imo. "Rare and meaningful" gets trot out all the time. It's basically a nonsense phrase. It's definition varies wildly from person to person.

Having meaningful PvP interaction is what i long for, sadly most of the times someone just want's to kill me because i show up as a hollow square on the radar. Had my friend who i got into Elite for a little awhile was killed twice in his Adder in open for no reason at all, wasn't plundered for cargo just simply killed. As to Sandmann's post yes i really wish FD would work a bit more on the social aspect of this game, give some type of in-game communication groups(Basically a guild feature) thing make it easier to communicate with each other. Cause honestly my interest in this game is coming back and that's because I've been chilling with a group of people in our own little section of the Galaxy.

And the problem with being an honorable trader, and being interdicted, you have no idea whether or not you're about to be pirated (part of the game) or completely obliterated for someone elses amusement (not part of the game).

Let me try to explain this issue another way entirely.

If someone combat logs on you what have you lost? Some fuel? The seconds spent to interdict them?

If someone destroys a type 9 and 496 tonnes of gold then what have they lost? The PKer is destroying an hour or more of that persons progress. The fact that Frontier don't seem to value this at all is what makes combat logging justifiable to those that do it in spite of FDevs rulings on PKing and combat logging.

And let me put my neck out here - in the case of exploration combat logging is completely justifiable and right in my opinion. If someone interdicts an Asp returning from deep space with 5 or 6 weeks worth of exploration data, with nothing in mind more than to destroy them (wasting all their efforts for nothing more than a few seconds of lulz for themselves) then that is a serious problem. The fact that Frontier have done absolutely nothing to address this problem speaks to the competency of Frontier in dealing with these issues, it doesn't make it right for people to do.

Combat logging is a dirty way to play and is cheating. I can see why you (and others) are annoyed by it. I just wish that you could see how PKing is even more annoying and disruptive to other players.

I like this post as it explains how a player "justifies" their actions (combat logging) despite how despicable a tactic it is.

 

[ocflyer]

I can't justify combat logging but neither can FD justify a 6K bounty against a player killer. Instead of a 6K bounty, ED should issue a fine payable to the victim equal to the victim's rebuy as restitution from the killer's account.
P.S. I've never combat logged.

 

[Flavourless]

Why do pirates play Open if they are just going to combat log when the mark unexpectedly fights back?

 

[Distance]

Why do pirates play Open if they are just going to combat log when the mark unexpectedly fights back?

There's scum on both sides who combat log but the traders are the only ones who seem fit to defend the use of an exploit on the official forum even after fd have explicitly said it's an exploit.

At the end of the day it's wrong regardless.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

if they played in solo it makes their trade grinding feel worthless

how can they show of their wealth and make them feel good about them self if nobody else can see it in solo?

Just like in Runescape, if that game was singleplayer nobody would cut 300,000 virtual trees to get to 99 woodcutting.

online = makes it feel worth it and more smugness

Simple, unlike others we do not need our ego stroking every few minutes... Why the need to show everyone what a big ship you have? Truth is all of you are flying in the same ship so your nothing special at all - just another potential victim of some stupid pirate thinking they are bringing some element of fun in to the game with nothing more than petty theft.

You think wealth means something? Oh boy, your in for a real shock as you grow up.

Smugness = Arrogance

 

[Simon853]

The whole combat logging is cheating problem could be resolved if FD just rebranded it from an exploit to a legitimate mechanic.

 

[Conch]

what if i told you some people dont play in open for the PVP, but for meeting people..

still combatlogging is wrong, but dont expect people in harmless ships to go down willingly

 

[JuanCudz]

I play in open and don't mind CMDR pirates, even built up a rapport with one or two, hoping I might get money off as a regular customer, but I still can't work the comms system very well (Tutorial? Anyone?). I can out fly most griefers and stay away from the rares honeytrap. Yet woe betide the day I start looking seriously at combat in this game ...

 

[Karl Marx]

I play in open and trade quite often. PvP is part of the game. Most of the people that have interdicted me have been quite honorable and left me alive after giving them a little bit of my cargo (or if it's worthless, they just leave.)

 

[FuzzySpider]

Wait, why would anyone even bother pulling over a hauler in a clipper? The hauler can only hold 22 tons max. Unless you plan on taking all of its cargo, it's not even worth pulling one over.

For the same reason this Anaconda pulled over my Diamondback Scout...

Spoiler

 

[Sandmann]

what if i told you some people dont play in open for the PVP, but for meeting people.

A fact that's been ignored by both FD (despite them advertising it as primarily a coop game) and by many regular open players who believe that open is a licence to kill. We tried to address it with:

- the suggestion of a PvP flag back in beta to prevent PvP against those who didn't want it... which got shouted down by PvPers who wanted to be abvle to shoot everyone
- the idea that players don't show up as hollow squares or can switch it... which got shouted down by PvPers who wanted to be able to shoot everyone
- even the idea of a PvE server or play mode... which (can you guess what I'm gonna say next?) got shouted down by PvPers
- the idea of a PvP mode for those who want it... which got laughed down by PvPers who want to shoot everyone (are we seeing a pattern here?)
- PvP groups which have never taken off, due to the overwhelming desire to shoot at everyone

Ironically now is those same PvPers (not all of them, y'all know who you are.) who are now complaining that open is "dead", and who've started many threads complaining that mode switching should be banned, that group and solo modes should be removed, or that failing that players from solo/group shouldn't be allowed into open, and many other suggestions to try to force players back where they can be shot or punish them for refusing to come back on their own. FD have (annoyingly) refused to do anything to support the notion of coop open mode to placate the PvEers, while continuing to refuse to do anything to placate the PvPers either.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

For the same reason this Anaconda pulled over my Diamondback Scout...

If he was just killing just for lulz, fine it doesnt matter what they are flying. He was a legit pirate however. I don't see the point of pulling over a hauler for piracy.

Or because they're noobz who don't know any better because FD doesn't really promote group or solo play, but they DID promote ED as a "primarily coop" game. Now if they renamed "open mode" to "good chance of dieing here at the hands of another player mode" you'd probably see less combat logging. And less helpless victims.



... or maybe they're looking for the advertised "primarily coop game" that was promised? The game's also not supposed to work where you poke your head out in a sidey and someone in a python blows it off for having a hollow square.

Primarily coop doesnt mean 100% co-op right? just checking. Btw why i thought elite was supposed to be, one man, one ship vs the galaxy.

 

[Pile_O_Gunz]

Having meaningful PvP interaction is what i long for, sadly most of the times someone just want's to kill me because i show up as a hollow square on the radar. Had my friend who i got into Elite for a little awhile was killed twice in his Adder in open for no reason at all, wasn't plundered for cargo just simply killed. As to Sandmann's post yes i really wish FD would work a bit more on the social aspect of this game, give some type of in-game communication groups(Basically a guild feature) thing make it easier to communicate with each other. Cause honestly my interest in this game is coming back and that's because I've been chilling with a group of people in our own little section of the Galaxy.





I like this post as it explains how a player "justifies" their actions (combat logging) despite how despicable a tactic it is.

combat logging is never justifiable. Being robbed or murdered is part of the game piracy is encouraged look at all the gear you can buy for it. Combat logging vs a pirate is the equivalent of alt +f4 and reloading a previous save -cheating because your bad at the game.

 

[Muffindrake]

- the suggestion of a PvP flag back in beta to prevent PvP against those who didn't want it... which got shouted down by PvPers who wanted to be abvle to shoot everyone
- the idea that players don't show up as hollow squares or can switch it... which got shouted down by PvPers who wanted to be able to shoot everyone
- even the idea of a PvE server or play mode... which (can you guess what I'm gonna say next?) got shouted down by PvPers
- the idea of a PvP mode for those who want it... which got laughed down by PvPers who want to shoot everyone (are we seeing a pattern here?)

It is not as easy as a single group constantly enforcing their balance agenda onto other parts of the community - for example, the raise/removal of the 20t cargo limit in normal space found plenty of sympathisers in the trader, bounty hunter, etc. camps. You need to consider that some changes or proposals are denied on the grounds of rationality and immersion, not bloodthirstiness.

Pirating Haulers

If it is clear that the Hauler might have some rares...

 

[Sandmann]

Primarily coop doesnt mean 100% co-op right? just checking. Btw why i thought elite was supposed to be, one man, one ship vs the galaxy.

Please clarify... are you claiming that the majority of "interactions" in open mode are coop?

- - - Updated - - -

It is not as easy as a single group constantly enforcing their balance agenda onto other parts of the community - for example, the raise/removal of the 20t cargo limit in normal space found plenty of sympathisers in the trader, bounty hunter, etc. camps. You need to consider that some changes or proposals are denied on the grounds of rationality and immersion, not bloodthirstiness.

True... and when ALL of the suggestions are denied on the grounds of maintaining the status quo, and no suggestions are put forward by the group doing all the "shouting down" other than forcing everyone to be where they can be shot at, or punishing them for not being there?

 

[FatzDomingo]

OK..... I'm a trader for now, just really started, so the main grief seems to be Pirates sometimes pick on people that really want to be left alone to trade?

So, lets add a little bit of spice in real-play. Pirates DON'T get insurance! Only legitimate traders get insurance against risk, Pirates on the other hand are the same as uninsured drivers - do so at entirely your own risk, Feds catch you they crush your car! Someone who declares themselves as a Pirate or Privateer gets a 50% insurance payout from their Pirate Guild if they lose their ship. (Only whilst pirating of course)

Don't quite know how the best way to implement such a risk in the game, but, as I said, it would certainly add a little bit of spice to "legitimate" Privateers!

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Please clarify... are you claiming that the majority of "interactions" in open mode are coop?

The majority of my interactions aren't competitive unless I'm the one making them that way. I'm very rarely attacked in open, most people just ignore me. Sure everyone doing their own thing isn't coop, but there also isn't any coop to do besides wing up and farm npcs.

Also with power play and cgs, players are working towards the same goal. That's all cooperative right?