Star Citizen's Gamescom Presentation has 30X More Viewers than ED on Twitch!

[ZeeWolf]

Frontier is terrible at marketting.
I dont think I know of another company that has so many PR distasters as Frontier does.

1) Terrible Kickstarter for E
2) Offlinegate
3) Steamkeygate
4) DDF binned
5) Horizon prizing

FD also seems to have a big problem with communicating clearly.
Most of their announcements are just vague and unclear.

UK companies in general are terrible at marketting.

My guess is that this is due to the 'Island mentality'.
There's the UK, then there's the Commonwealth, then there's the former colony in the US.
After that the world pretty much stops as far as Brits are concerned.

Just look at the latest Horizons teaser.
'Coming Holiday 2015'. 80% of the world has zero idea what that actually means.
Apparently it means around christmas.

Localization for other languages also seems to be pretty low on the priority list.

Finally, I can't understand that you have this Colossal announcement and you only have a small teaser trailer to go with it.
Bombard us with (scripted for all I care) gameplay footage, show us some pretty pictures, give us some stats on the scarab, whatever.

Having a good product is not enough, you need to actively sell that product and 'sell' your company by creating enthousiastic customers.

Except this makes no sense when you consider how many AAA games are made in the UK that you don't know about

GTA V, Batman series, Total War, Alien Isolation etc. let alone a large portion of Star Citizen

 

[jabberwalkie]

I'm fairly sure SC will sell well if it's ever released. It already has.

Whoa there, remember that the money pledged/contributed to the project so far is not indicative necessarily of sales.

I just don't see that having the negative effect on ED that everyone thinks it will.

It just looks like a completely different game to me. Two games in one genre rarely cancel each other out.

Agree with this.

 

[B7ACK MAM8A]

Hype, de art of sellin dream = SC

What the Jamaican said. ^

 

[Monk]

Except this makes no sense when you consider how many AAA games are made in the UK that you don't know about

GTA V, Batman series, Total War, Alien Isolation etc. let alone a large portion of Star Citizen

Indeed. I've worked with UK software dev in the financial industry and if those folks weren't the most savvy marketers I've ever met, then I'm scared of what I'd give up to anyone that is considered a great marketer.

These guys sold some serious vaporware on data analytics to a company I used to work for. They acted like they invented the big data and data sciecne. And boy did it work on my executives. Have millions, thank you.

 

[h347h]

If they reach their KS Goal then EVERSPACE will be out before SC.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rockfishgames/everspace?ref=video

Christ, its getting crowded for such a niche game genre.

 

[DoctorDanny]

Except this makes no sense when you consider how many AAA games are made in the UK that you don't know about

GTA V, Batman series, Total War, Alien Isolation etc. let alone a large portion of Star Citizen

GTA V is publised by Take Two Interactive, an American company afaik.
Total War is published by Sega.

I don't doubt the Brittish skills in making/programming the games, just in selling them.

I used to own Acorn computers (from the Electron to the RiscPC) when I was younger. Some of the best computers ever made came out of England.
Except they never actually left Brittain, because they weren't marketted outside of the UK.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Acorn (ARM) are in pretty much every smartphone, small consumer device, car, aircraft, power tool, GPS, domestic appliance out there - and they don't even fab the chips

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Well, watched whole stream. Tech is there but game is boring as hell at this point due of bugs most likely, and I like ED more vibrant color palette. And that's something when you aim for spectacular. SC is still hyped as hell, and people religiously follow it, while ED community consists mostly of people passing by, seeing gameplay, enjoying it. SC at this point is a bit like religious order, and in not bad kind of sense. They just want their game to be released and want to see it coming together. So having so big numbers...yeah, I am not surprised.

As for competition - when SC will come out, FD will roll out their Season 3 (end of 2016). So if they will have goods, and interesting things to offer, I doubt there will be much competition between both products. After that point though gloves will be off. People will move between games, will find something they like in one, something they like in another...

 

[ZeeWolf]

GTA V is publised by Take Two Interactive, an American company afaik.
Total War is published by Sega.

I don't doubt the Brittish skills in making/programming the games, just in selling them.

I used to own Acorn computers (from the Electron to the RiscPC) when I was younger. Some of the best computers ever made came out of England.
Except they never actually left Brittain, because they weren't marketted outside of the UK.

Maybe, but I'd argue GTA itself is a heavily marketed game from concept up. There is nothing British/Scottish about it in style. Same with the Driver series (made in Newcastle) and numerous other games not made in the US but clearly marketed at a US-centric audience from the ground up. Because money.

Also, a metric ton of horrible mobile phone games like Candy Crush are created and marketed in the UK

When you think British games you think Lionhead because they make a game with weird humor that everyone thinks is British but isn't

 

[Moriarte]

They are in different leagues... SC is the biggest undertaking in the space game genre, no point in comparing it to anything that was/is. E has done pretty well, in my humble opinion, selling 700k copies and all, yet it reached it's peak of sales and now the wave is going to calmly go down with few ripples in the water - expansions. No amount of hype will be able to fill the proverbial ocean with missing mackerel. FD sees that and, hence, doesn't spend too much on marketing.

There is no surprise in the amount of hype for SC across all venues of gaming world though - C. Roberts's vision offers lots of things to do for all sorts of people in his cozy little universe, cutting edge graphics, many modes of play, PC exclusive - a world of detail, provided by a large team of people and financial inflows of a very high magnitude. People sense that and want be a part of it, which is reflected in RSI financial columns - even before the darn thing is released they've collected so much money they don't actually have to do anything, and that is why I am holding off till 3-4 months after release.

Sure, things can go wrong, ya know - stock market crash (haven't seen one since 2007! hint, hint..), tsunami, global power outage, lawsuits, revolutions in Oceania, etc.. but the Sci-Fi community will always remember what CR tried to do. Maybe even in noir tint, who knows?

Again - a blockbuster space arcade vs niche space arcade - why even compare?

 

[aaltomar]

Big part of the SC success is the communication they have with the community. Also while SC may not have 400 billion star systems the content is much deeper than Elite's ocean wide but inch deep content. They are developing a lot of content simultaneously so the progress is not going to show until closer to completion. ED route is to release things piecemeal, so many years still to have the same scope as SC and ED had been longer in development. The "no instance" is very appealing since I do feel a disconnect especially when coming out of supercruise as that's pre-programmed approach when for example getting to a station.

Everyone should check out the free "Space Engine" which has procedural object generation and is not instanced when moving from star system to star system. I would especially like to sort of visually pick a star in cockpit view and start flying towards it without 'loading screens' like in ED. You could have a filter that would show jump-able systems in one color and systems that could be reached with a full tank in another. Although longer route planning is surely easier in a galaxy view. But here you could just start your journey towards a certain star and if seeing a suspect closing in on you could start to evade and perhaps trust your better agility against a faster ship. Although making rapid course changes while doing multiples of light speed would indeed need a 'plausible' back story
Of course a lot of areas lacking compared to ED/SC, well it's not a game yet per say, but a work of a single person and has features better implemented. Then again may face the same restrictions if and when tries to implement more features as in ED/SC.

Often times I read people quoting how much of a money grab SC is because of the high prices of the ships when in reality that is not forced but you can support the development by buying the ships and paying voluntary subscriptions. I bought the lowest pledge when it didn't include taxes so I paid 24€ and that will include all the content. ED is going to be 10x the price with same functionality (or at this pace probably not). The reason why people buy those expensive ships is because to the enormous amount on communication SC is doing and creating trust that they are going to create the "best damn space sim ever". Then again I'm not overly impressed with the current hangar and ambiance but they do have much improved systems under way. I just wish the ships would be substantial with a lot more space devoted to engineering and systems and more cramped crew areas. The design on many of the ships feel very arcady.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

They are in different leagues... SC is the biggest undertaking in the space game genre, no point in comparing it to anything that was/is. E has done pretty well, in my humble opinion, selling 700k copies and all, yet it reached it's peak of sales and now the wave is going to calmly go down with few ripples in the water - expansions. No amount of hype will be able to fill the proverbial ocean with missing mackerel. FD sees that and, hence, doesn't spend too much on marketing.

SC has 200 planets with designated landing zones, and ED have huge universe to fly trough. Sorry what? Biggest undertaking? Biggest scam maybe. Guy who has been out of loop for YEARS come in and say let's throw money at me, I know how to market hot air.

FD has NEVER wasted it's money on marketing. Despite that, it has 800k players and counting. They also got 1/3 of SC budget. Not so tiny, isn't it.

There is no surprise in the amount of hype for SC across all venues of gaming world though - C. Roberts's vision offers lots of things to do for all sorts of people in his cozy little universe, cutting edge graphics, many modes of play, PC exclusive - a world of detail, provided by a large team of people and financial inflows of a very high magnitude. People sense that and want be a part of it, which is reflected in RSI financial columns - even before the darn thing is released they've collected so much money they don't actually have to do anything, and that is why I am holding off till 3-4 months after release.

They are burning 2M a month and have problems of flow of cash.

Sure, things can go wrong, ya know - stock market crash (haven't seen one since 2007! hint, hint..), tsunami, global power outage, lawsuits, revolutions in Oceania, etc.. but the Sci-Fi community will always remember what CR tried to do. Maybe even in noir tint, who knows?

Yes, gaming community remembers how CR left last game at hands of Microsoft, half finished, hugely over budget. Then he went on and made total waste of money called Wing Commander movie.

Again - a blockbuster space arcade vs niche space arcade - why even compare?

Because SC is not EVEN A GAME YET. There's nothing to compare.

 

[deusx_ophc]

different animals that under closer inspection are not even in the same room...

...but we know that already, right?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Big part of the SC success is the communication they have with the community. Also while SC may not have 400 billion star systems the content is much deeper than Elite's ocean wide but inch deep content.

Is SC already released? Can I read reviews?

They are developing a lot of content simultaneously so the progress is not going to show until closer to completion.

No one doubts that. Still, release dates of modules get delayed constantly.

ED route is to release things piecemeal, so many years still to have the same scope as SC and ED had been longer in development. The "no instance" is very appealing since I do feel a disconnect especially when coming out of supercruise as that's pre-programmed approach when for example getting to a station.

SC is not even released. SC scope is nonexistant at this point. Zero. Nada. And SC *has* instances. Please get informed. There are instances, and they can support currently 18 players max.

Everyone should check out the free "Space Engine" which has procedural object generation and is not instanced when moving from star system to star system. I would especially like to sort of visually pick a star in cockpit view and start flying towards it without 'loading screens' like in ED. You could have a filter that would show jump-able systems in one color and systems that could be reached with a full tank in another. Although longer route planning is surely easier in a galaxy view. But here you could just start your journey towards a certain star and if seeing a suspect closing in on you could start to evade and perhaps trust your better agility against a faster ship. Although making rapid course changes while doing multiples of light speed would indeed need a 'plausible' back story

Hyperspace tunnel is nothing to do with loading screen, as they even zoom in on system right at the jumping out.

Often times I read people quoting how much of a money grab SC is because of the high prices of the ships when in reality that is not forced but you can support the development by buying the ships and paying voluntary subscriptions. I bought the lowest pledge when it didn't include taxes so I paid 24€ and that will include all the content. ED is going to be 10x the price with same functionality (or at this pace probably not). The reason why people buy those expensive ships is because to the enormous amount on communication SC is doing and creating trust that they are going to create the "best damn space sim ever". Then again I'm not overly impressed with the current hangar and ambiance but they do have much improved systems under way. I just wish the ships would be substantial with a lot more space devoted to engineering and systems and more cramped crew areas. The design on many of the ships feel very arcady.

4 years instead of 1.5 years is not creating trust.

 

[ColonelJack]

It's like asking why Frontier/Elite cannot match the Kardashians popularity. It's leaning toward the ad populum fallacy: Becausae it's popular it's true, right, good, whatever.


Star Citizen is become a damnable cult of personality, lots of people are invested in it, some of them a bit too much, it could be the biggest thing in gaming to date or the biggest gaming con ever known.

Elite is an actual product you can play, my grandpa always said you get what you pay for.... I gues those guys that bought the $15,000 Star Citizen pack are going to love flying around the galaxy IN REAL LIFE

 

[Moriarte]

Where do I file a complain? I've been bitten by a white knight!!!

OK, I will respond, bit by bit, and in a respectful manner this time, the above is a silly joke:

SC has 200 planets with designated landing zones, and ED have huge universe to fly trough. Sorry what? Biggest undertaking? Biggest scam maybe. Guy who has been out of loop for YEARS come in and say let's throw money at me, I know how to market hot air.

The setting doesn't have to be gigantic. 99.9999999999% of ED is empty space. It's about handcrafting, throwing human imagination at the thing, inventing hundreds of unique missions and storylines. SC can afford that. FD can't - simply on a different scale of things. Skyrim was actually pretty small. But sold 20 mil. copies. And we know why that happened.

FD has NEVER wasted it's money on marketing.

It's called "investing in marketing". Press the "advertise" button and get more customers to your fold. Worked all the way through history. Might not work for ED any longer.

Despite that, it has 800k players and counting. They also got 1/3 of SC budget. Not so tiny, isn't it.

No one knows FD's budget. We know market cap, sales, profit, but no budget figures apportioned exclusively to the development of ED. It may be 3-4 mil for what I know. Do you know?

Yes, gaming community remembers how CR left last game at hands of Microsoft, half finished, hugely over budget. Then he went on and made total waste of money called Wing Commander movie.

Yeah, as I mentioned above, I am holding off with purchase till the release. Thanks for the word of warning.

Because SC is not EVEN A GAME YET. There's nothing to compare.

As I said above - "a vision". Perhaps you missed that.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

The setting doesn't have to be gigantic. 99.9999999999% of ED is empty space. It's about handcrafting, throwing human imagination at the thing, inventing hundreds of unique missions and storylines. SC can afford that. FD can't - simply on a different scale of things.

Most of planets are authored, most of PG systems are designed working together with *artist* to give space certain flavor. Unigue missions? Fetch #1023 as other MMOs? It has all been done, all seen. Those aren't unique, even MMO designers admit they are usually cut and paste and then tailored according to locality. FD does it combining artist input, handcrafted stuff with algorithms. Even Chris Roberts admitted that unless they can get it working in similar fashion, SC universe will feel small.

It's called "investing in marketing". Press the "advertise" button and get more customers to your fold. Worked all the way through history. Might not work for ED any longer.

Please get to know how SC got their "investments in marketing". Guess what - it was "friends in right places", people so blinded by their childhood memories of Wing Commander they hyped CR as second coming of Jesus. Only few of them now speaks highly of CR, because of huge delays which are coming uncomfortably close to past experience with CR.

No one knows FD's budget. We know market cap, sales, profit, but no budget figures apportioned exclusively to the development of ED. It may be 3-4 mil for what I know. Do you know?

Yes, FD has published those numbers, and they are in 20M pounds ball park, around 36M USD.

As I said above - "a vision". Perhaps you missed that.

So vision always win reality. So what? They can't be compared.

 

[LKx]

What did they show?

I barely hear the streams because frontiers don't show or say much about what's coming.

 

[EddyRockSteady]

and ED have huge universe to fly trough.....

ROFL

Yeah, a massive universe where literally EVERYTHING looks the same/is the same. Honestly, you see one ED system/station you've seen them all, so please, don't tell me the ED universe is big. As far as variety is concerned, it's pretty damned small.

 

[Monk]

ROFL

Yeah, a massive universe where literally EVERYTHING looks the same/is the same. Honestly, you see one ED system/station you've seen them all, so please, don't tell me the ED universe is big. As far as variety is concerned, it's pretty damned small.

Well, the Galaxy is huge. You are right that variety is limited. Though, that, I trust, is going to develop over time, which has been the plan all along.