wooo there nelly, anti-social behaviour ? It's completely the opposite in my opinion, and while DB has reservations over Mafiosi, I think he's far more concerned over losing control or being placed in a position where players have more "power" or "control" within the universe.
The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.
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wooo there nelly, anti-social behaviour ? It's completely the opposite in my opinion, and while DB has reservations over Mafiosi, I think he's far more concerned over losing control or being placed in a position where players have more "power" or "control" within the universe.
This required 2 posts, my apologies to answer both points here:
So your opinion of a bad guild is a group of players (Small or large, and wings are small and can do just as much damage as a guild in this case since such behavior is already supported and encouraged by the game) who play ED like one of it's many aspects is advertised and encouraged to be played (I.E: Piracy)?
And this is apparently the opinion of FD which you agree with......
If this is the case why did you all even bother to make an MMO aspect or Mode, and why would you add wings, which is essentially the same thing as a limited 4 man guild? As well as Support semi Groups? Or even allow PvP at all?
Basically what I get from this is that FD's reasoning is in fact based on Irrational fear and hypocrisy then. Got it.
That's Scary. I mean... really scary.
I wonder what else FD will do and enforce out of these irrational fears, and hypocritical decisions. I mean.. can you imagine? I seriously doubt this game will last very long with that kind of management, and those kinds of policies.
If you haven't read George Orwell's 1984, you should.... Because that seems to be the direction this game is heading.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The term Guild would imply a group larger (much larger) than a Wing. The larger the group, the more widespread the mischief that they can instigate and the more other players can be affected by it. Frontier have chosen not to facilitate such a likely outcome.
Frontier chose to create Open as one of the three game modes to allow players who choose to to play among others - this has been included in advertising as "massively multiplayer online" play. The problem with that, however, is that different people have different personal definitions of what constitutes the minimum feature set for a "massively multiplayer online" game.
Wings were discussed in the Design Decision Forum (see the DDA link in my signature) as "Alliances". Private Groups are just that - each is separate game "mode" whereby only players playing in the same Private Group will be able to interact with each other. PvP in a multi-player game is no surprise - all of the ships are capable of carrying one or more weapons after all.
You might call it irrational fear and hypocrisy, others may call it a clear understanding of human behaviour, especially when allowed to form large groups in the relative anonymity (and largely consequence free) online world.
.... and now we've reached the "the game will die unless <changes> happen" trope.
Once again - it's not a case of fear or hypocrisy - it's a case of This Is Elite And Guilds Do Not Feel Right For This Game. It really is as simple as that.
Guilds have been a part of MMO's for as long as I've been playing them. The oldest instance I can find is 1991.
It's not a "Me too" thing. It's a staple of the social network within the game.
<nods> Circles, circles!
There is something important you are leaving out though for the MMO's you have listed, Lets put the 'social aspect' to side for a moment, the games you listed almost all, (if not actually all), have a necessity for guilds. Whether that necessity comes in the form of end game content, (which Elite D does not really have), such as operations, raids, flashpoints, 'H4 instances'. 'But that can all be done without guilds' I hear you cry, it can, to those that enjoy or chose to do so, but there are a great number of players that are adverse to 'pugging' and guild offer these players the chance to progess at end game things such as those listed and 'end game' PVP with players they know, trust and become familiar with the play styles of, (important for end game PVP and raid content for example). None of that is an issue in Elite D.
Some of the other games you have mentioned are extremely PVP and territory orientated, in these games, (EvE, Archeage, Guild Wars etc), the guilds are the game in these cases to a very large degree, again, not the case here.
Now, to the 'social aspects', I think we can almost al agree that Elite D needs some better social features, but these are more than achievable without guilds. An awful lot of the games you listed do have more tools for social interaction but most of the guilds in those games have an awful lot of their 'interaction' via 3rd party tools, such as Teamspeak, Vent and many more, there is not one thing stopping people from using these tools in Elite D. You can argue that a guild list or a calender will be some massive game changer, but be honest, it won't, and besides, you can have said list and calender on the guild website, something else many, many guilds do whether or not the tools exist in game.
Point I'm making is that Elite D is different to all the games you listed, player numbers are up for debate, but they are not a determining factor in whether guilds will work in this game or whether or not the tools for them are some sort of 'game changer'.
Okay, I watched this thread for quite a while now, and also made one or two posts long ago, but this is getting crazy.
First of all, why does everyone seem to think that, only because ED has MMO aspects, it needs to do what every other MMO is doing? I love playing ED because the multiplayer aspect of the game differs from previous approaches.
Don't get me wrong now, I am pro-guilds, but I think they should be restricted and be implemented in another way than it is the case in other games. What I think guilds implementation should bring is to give players the ability to group up more easily and to find a "home" for themselves. I am against guilds dictating the rules in those "homes" though. Also, I do not want to see guilds being able to stop other players from playing the way they like, for example by taking over an important station and blocking it for outsiders.
To cut it short, guilds should improve player interaction for everyone, and not be able to scare others out of open play.
For the full thing, please search for my previous post(s) in this thread, where I explained myself in more detail.
First of all, why does everyone seem to think that, only because ED has MMO aspects, it needs to do what every other MMO is doing? I love playing ED because the multiplayer aspect of the game differs from previous approaches.
Don't get me wrong now, I am pro-guilds, but I think they should be restricted and be implemented in another way than it is the case in other games. What I think guilds implementation should bring is to give players the ability to group up more easily and to find a "home" for themselves. I am against guilds dictating the rules in those "homes" though. Also, I do not want to see guilds being able to stop other players from playing the way they like, for example by taking over an important station and blocking it for outsiders.
To cut it short, guilds should improve player interaction for everyone, and not be able to scare others out of open play.
For the full thing, please search for my previous post(s) in this thread, where I explained myself in more detail.
I bought ED because it was really the only option for a persistent online universe where you can fly a spaceship in first person. *Not* because it did multiplayer differently. I wish to God that it did MMO stuff like other proven tried and tested games, refined over 2 decades. But, I was disappointed by the lack of social multiplayer features, and I don't play anymore. I was wrong, and this has been horribly disappointing for me.
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1. No, I never said the game would die, I am sure the single player experience will live out the full 10 years. That statement was in reference to expansions on the MMO and social aspects of the game, and it's success in the MMO market.
2. guildɡild/
noun
- a medieval association of craftsmen or merchants, often having considerable power.
- an association of people for mutual aid or the pursuit of a common goal.
synonyms: association, society, union, league, organization, company,cooperative, fellowship, club, order, lodge, brotherhood, fraternity,sisterhood, sorority"the copper craftsmen have formed a guild" - ECOLOGY
a group of species that have similar requirements and play a similar role within a community.
- an association of people for mutual aid or the pursuit of a common goal.
* The definition fo guild does not state whether it needs to be small or large, in fact in many MMO's the smaller groups are indeed the more influential, so yes under the definition and terminology of "Guild" a wing could indeed be considered a small guild.
Citation: https://www.google.com/webhp?source...648&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=guild definition:
3. A massively multiplayer online game (MMO or MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played over a network, such as the Internet.[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game#cite_note-1"][1][/URL] MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.
Citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game
*Apparently.. the gaming industry disagrees with you and FD on what is classified as an MMO.... There is in fact a very clear definition, and feature set, for what an MMO "is", it's not based on opinion or personal definition as you suggest, and can not be misinterpreted. In addition the feature set as listed below on that page includes "guilds" or "social game supported groups", as well as Virtual player controlled economies, among a host of other things, ED currently lacks.
4.On human behavior, you should know I have a degree in Behavioral psychology. and your comment concerning human behavior is not only completely biased toward the negative but also complete bull hocky. The vast majority of social groups are "NOT""Horrible nasty humans with no morals or ethics who's only goal is to sabotage and wreak havoc on other people".
In fact Human behavior in organized groups is generally that of those preferring structure, rules and the respect of law and order. Only the Small minority of Social groups are negative and in society we call these "terrorists", in games the other social groups generally band together to police them, or combat them or get rid of them.
So yes, FD's and apparently your "Opinions" of guilds are not only Irrational, but also Hypocritical to the very nature of ED itself, being an MMO, as well as contradictory to the reality of socially organized Human behavior, and reality itself.
Despite common memes.. 2+2 does not = Chair. It does in fact = 4
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I can barely read any of your posts due to the colours used, but really, it all boils down to if you want guilds - you'll have to petition FD for them and ask nicely.
You may get a guild-only Open or some such, that could be fun. I'm not against guilds themselves - I am just against guilds in Elite.
You may get a guild-only Open or some such, that could be fun. I'm not against guilds themselves - I am just against guilds in Elite.
I stand corrected. MUD2 had clans, and originated in 1985.
Soo... Player groups within multiplayer games are as old and established as the Elite franchise itself.
http://www.mudconnect.com/cgi-bin/adv_search.cgi?Mode=MUD&mud=MUD2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD2
Are those colors better?
All colours are exactly equal, but their visibility on my phone is not
Still cannot read 90% of what you post.
Not to MUDdy the waters, but...
Elite originated in 1984 and didn't have clans or guilds, what's your point?
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Your insistence on scattering colour through your posts makes it unnecessarily time consuming to reply to them, however:
1) So when you said:
you mis-spoke?
2) Are small Guilds really that common?
3) Which part of the basic Wikipedia definition of MMO(G) does E: D not meet (taking into account that it says "MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world" and "MMOGs often feature in-game support for clans and guilds.")
4) Of course not all Guilds are in that category, however you admit yourself that some are when you say
Therefore introducing game features that allow such groups to flourish would simply be creating another problem as to how to deal with the fallout from the mischief that such groups thrive on.
1) So when you said:
you mis-spoke?
2) Are small Guilds really that common?
3) Which part of the basic Wikipedia definition of MMO(G) does E: D not meet (taking into account that it says "MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world" and "MMOGs often feature in-game support for clans and guilds.")
4) Of course not all Guilds are in that category, however you admit yourself that some are when you say
Therefore introducing game features that allow such groups to flourish would simply be creating another problem as to how to deal with the fallout from the mischief that such groups thrive on.
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I made a post recently regarding that guilds are coming yet people replied that it was old news and that I was wrong as it was deemed as not being "guilds".
Firstly I'm not bothered whether guilds gets fully implemented or not, I just thought it was relevant information as this subject frequently pops up. On one of " Tek Syndicates" latest videos, they interview Ed about upcoming updates, horizons etc and he reveals that larger groups and factions will be available to be created, with the potential of having their own bases of opperations and perhaps forming their own power in PowerPlay.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but understanding the known concept of what a guild is....this is guilds.
Like I said, it doesn't bother me in the slightest but I thought the information is relevant as people seem to either not know it or perhaps are in denial about it.
Firstly I'm not bothered whether guilds gets fully implemented or not, I just thought it was relevant information as this subject frequently pops up. On one of " Tek Syndicates" latest videos, they interview Ed about upcoming updates, horizons etc and he reveals that larger groups and factions will be available to be created, with the potential of having their own bases of opperations and perhaps forming their own power in PowerPlay.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but understanding the known concept of what a guild is....this is guilds.
Like I said, it doesn't bother me in the slightest but I thought the information is relevant as people seem to either not know it or perhaps are in denial about it.
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Not to MUDdy the waters, but...
Elite originated in 1984 and didn't have clans or guilds, what's your point?
My point goes back to Maynard's post about clans, guilds, alliances, etc... being a "Me too" thing. It's not a bandwagon, it's a 30 year tradition and staple of the industry.
Because the problems your attributing to guilds are caused by players, and the status of the game being an "MMO", regardless of guilded status (guilded or not guilded). In fact the solution to your problem with these people, are guilds, which can be people that bind together and organize to stop them. Just like negative people can organize to harass.
Guilds are not the issue. Guilds are NEUTRAL. People are the issue, and as pointed out earlier any issues guilds would cause are already supported in game by wings, so your point is irrelevant.
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