The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

Guilds and Player Owned Stations

  • Guilds and limited player-owned stations

    Votes: 788 54.4%

  • No guilds or player owned stations

    Votes: 506 34.9%

  • Guilds but no limited player-owned stations

    Votes: 155 10.7%
  • Total voters
    1,449
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.

mossfoot

mossfoot
SiriusSeven said:
I just mean that X3 does a better job of offering PVE single player content, even excluding fleet stuff. Hell, you can do comma with NPCs to apologize for friendly fire, do passenger missions, fight scary alien races bent on destroying humans, etc. etc. etc.
Click to expand...

I will agree with you that X3 has some elements that Elite could use in that regard. Communicating with NPCs (even in the basic choose-your-own-adventure way of X3) would be a very nice touch. Let people pirating NPCs feel like a pirate by making demands, or people who accidentally shot a Fed get them to stand down (though the fine might stand and a second "accident" would have them ignore further requests). All kinds of stuff there.

I loved X3 - before I starting writing the Mossfoot Muckabouts ( https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=167453&p=2555627#post2555627 ) I had spent a lot of time in X3 and had written a novel for that as well (they actually included it in one of their Gold Box editions, I believe, along with other fiction). So I can definitely say there are elements from the game I'd like to see here.
 

Malpherian

M
Herik said:
Malpherian, God I hate this kind of play. And please stop using the misleading argument of 400 billion in you posts. The Open players have to worry about the 160,000 occupied systems where freedom of play will be effected.
Click to expand...

My proposed Guild systems, and System wars , Territory control do not effect the Secures 160,000 Block.

I keep mentioning the 400B systems because THAT is where the guilds will roam and own territory and systems etc. So it is relevant that I mention it. And irrelevant that Guilds will effect the 160k systems your referring to, in any way not already effected by closed groups and wings, because they won't.

The 160k core systems would be protect Guilds could not claim space or put stations in these systems, in my proposition. Sure they could base themselves there (Like the closed groups and wings do now), but how is that any different from what is currently done? They can't own anything in those areas....
 

Herik

Herik
Malpherion; after your links and your compilation:

"They all contend that MMO's which have guilds are far more successful, and their players are much happier then MMO's without them, they also attribute higher profits, as well as longevity of a game based on it's social ability for players to interact. Games which encourage and support such, generally last years if not decades, games which do not, well... do not.

The positive effects of guilds in MMo's is clearly seen, all tests which were done in non guild MMO's were found to be exceedingly negative with the game not being very popular, and sales being only about a quarter (average) of their potential compared to MMO's with guilds. The effect of guilds on the community in which they reside was found to be overwhelmingly positive in almost all cases.

There were a few in the studies which show that games enheritly designed as single player games converted into an MMO such as "Skyrim" and "Fallout", lacked the structure to support large groups of people in their virtual environments. (But again that's not really a anything concerning actual guilds anyway. ED has more then enough structure and potential to house and sustain an almost unlimited number of guilds. so that would not be an issue here."
========================================================================================================================================================================


I still have to say; the divisive and destructive nature of 'Guilds' for the established player base in this game is far more harmful to the players, then not having guilds. I'm not talking 'the games bottom line'; I'm saying having Guilds in E:D will 'Churn' the player base as much (if not more than), putting single player Offline on the 'cutting room floor'...

Many will quit over this. It's DB's/FD's decision.
 
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smiths121

S
I would like to see more channels in text communication as well, broadcast channels are fine as long as other players have an opt out (some people really want to be almost the same as off line for example. Not sure how they get on someones friends list in the first place, but that semantics!

I personally would like to see the concept of circles or folders in the friends list so people can quickly create folders to support organised groups. Broadcast worried me for a while, but the only people that seem to spam the local broadcast channel are the NPCs!

Simon

Liqua said:
Not only that, playing an online game and being part of a group / guild / corp can help with those with social anxiety issues - it can be difficult for some people to speak to others they don't know, but with a layer of abstraction (forum / video game / etc) that can ease the problem. For instance I have made over 9000 posts here, enjoyed being part of the Elite community, contributed to many discussions, but in real life ... you wouldn't know I was there.

I get that you can add friends to your account and speak to people in the system you are in but for myself that doesn't quite go far enough - communal channels where you can speak to randoms; group wide channels to friends; etc; would for me add that missing element.
Click to expand...
 

jabberwalkie

J
Malpherian said:
It will fail in the aspect of an MMO, without socialization and support for such and MMO's driving force - Population - will be minimal. Thus sales will be minimal, thus unless the owner of FD just wants to smash his fortune into ED's development (which he might), the game will fail financially. However as a single player game it'll do just fine provided they severely up the content, like.. on the level with X3.

Otherwise, yea eventually it is highly probably it will fail. Not guaranteed, just highly probable.
Click to expand...

While I'm not opposed to the idea of guilds/fleets/or whatever you want to call them to implement them into ED, this game does lack some serious socialization basics. Wings was a nod in the direction of supporting player interactivity, but is still lacking and IMO somewhat flawed. AFAIK, there isn't a way to actually a way to share a mission so that two people can do it together. Sure someone could tag along I guess, but I don't know if they get the rewards. Most people that I have seen using wings are either pirates or bounty hunters. That seems like the two groups of players that would most benefit from an organization within the community. With the implementation of team chat, I can't imagine that having a group chat function being implemented for these communities being too difficult to do. But in all honesty, that's about as far as I'd really want guilds to be implemented. I'd just like to see players to actually form their own communities so that they can better coordinate their game play. Just my two cents there.
 

Malpherian

M
Herik said:
Malpherion; after your links and your compilation:

"They all contend that MMO's which have guilds are far more successful, and their players are much happier then MMO's without them, they also attribute higher profits, as well as longevity of a game based on it's social ability for players to interact. Games which encourage and support such, generally last years if not decades, games which do not, well... do not.

The positive effects of guilds in MMo's is clearly seen, all tests which were done in non guild MMO's were found to be exceedingly negative with the game not being very popular, and sales being only about a quarter (average) of their potential compared to MMO's with guilds. The effect of guilds on the community in which they reside was found to be overwhelmingly positive in almost all cases.

There were a few in the studies which show that games enheritly designed as single player games converted into an MMO such as "Skyrim" and "Fallout", lacked the structure to support large groups of people in their virtual environments. (But again that's not really a anything concerning actual guilds anyway. ED has more then enough structure and potential to house and sustain an almost unlimited number of guilds. so that would not be an issue here."
=============================================================================================================================================================


I still have to say; the divisive and destructive nature of 'Guilds' for the established player base in this game is far more harmful to the players, then not having guilds. I'm not talking 'the games bottom line'; I'm saying having Guilds in E:D will 'Churn' the player base as much (if not more than), putting single player Offline on the 'cutting room floor'...

Many will quit over this. It's DB's/FD's decision.
Click to expand...


That may be true, many might quit, but do you keep the few? Or take a risk and gain thousands if not millions? (Of People). Because the addition of guilds if done correctly, will cause an extreme population spike and interest in ED, as well as increase the sales of ED, fueling Further development and better game additions.

So as much as I hate to say this, do you risk offending a few hundred, maybe a few thousand, and losing them? While in turn gaining thousands more, maybe millions?

Or

Do you risk going out of business, and/or not being able to compete in the market with a game you've already sunk millions into? While maintaining a loyalty to what "some" of your fans and fan-base expect of ED?


Remember that FD is a Business, and although they may want to keep their game as original as possible, changes may have to be made in order to ensure it's popularity and longevity.
 
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medwyn

M
Malpherian said:
It will fail in the aspect of an MMO, without socialization and support for such and MMO's driving force - Population - will be minimal. Thus sales will be minimal, thus unless the owner of FD just wants to smash his fortune into ED's development (which he might), the game will fail financially. However as a single player game it'll do just fine provided they severely up the content, like.. on the level with X3.

Otherwise, yea eventually it is highly probably it will fail. Not guaranteed, just highly probable.

--------

Just because ED has a fan base does not make it immune to the riggors of the gaming industry, a lot of other games also stated when they first came out "We will not Support Guilds", and some of them had fan bases just like ED does.

Guess what? After being in the MMO market for a year or 2, and continually losing players and financing because they lacked in depth in game social structure support (IE guilds/Corps), they either

A. Added Guilds.

Or

B. Closed their servers and went out of Business.

Players are Consumers and a developer can want whatever they want, but when your consumers and the market goes... "Hey, yea um you need to add guild support to your game or we wont purchase it..." You add guild support. (Unless you have money growing out of your eye-sockets like Dave" in which case you make your game the way you want, and if people don't like it they can go F themselves. Your game would still have a low pop however. And would never be what you really designed it to be and do.

if you want pop, and you want sales, and you want consumers, Then you do what you need to in order to get them, while maintaining as much as possible your original idea and plan.
Click to expand...

Again, I have to spread some more rep around before I give one again to you.
What a shame :p
 

Malpherian

M
Cody said:
Think about it!
Click to expand...

There is nothing to think about, Guilds are optional features in MMO's your free to play solo without them if you like. That being the case, why indeed would something that does not even remotely effect how you play the game, by yourself, in your own time, keep you away from a game.

What kept you away was not the guilds, but "Your" personal dislike of guilds, and Games which have them.

There is a subtle but HUGE difference there.
 
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EUS

EUS
I wouldn't have bought this game had there been guilds, and the inevitable gameplay that stems from them.
The 1 player, 1 ship premise is what I bought into.
Yes, I'm aware that premise has been weakened already.
 
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