Haha fair enough. Maybe you RP a little too well. XD
Thank you for the compliment.
Haha fair enough. Maybe you RP a little too well. XD
Cool. Let's leave the drug cartels alone. And the terrorists and the wackjobs, and the psychos; basically everyone that wants to rob, murder and torture their way to the top of the food chain and start their own malevolent little empire. Let's just sit back and let them do it, because obviously any lifestyle is legitimate no matter how it harms those around it, and one man's freedom ends... where? Where he runs into someone with a bigger gun?
You're welcome to live in that world if you want to. Until the Empire rides in and burns you out of your homes with cleansing plasma like the abominations you are.![]()
My eyes have always been open. This truth has always been a part of the Empire; we do not deny it. We let our citizens rise and fall; we do not enshrine parasitism. We earn the loyalty of our people and enforce it when we must. And when the forces of corruption reach out to ensnare our people and refuse to see reason, we burn them to ashes, enslave their lackeys, and make everything that they were serve us until it is us. That is the way we have survived and thrived while the Federation has rotted under the burdens of which it refused to relieve itself.
I believe that power may be used to dominate others when it must, but that it need not always. The Empire has done so in many cases and will do so in many more. We make no denials about what we are, we only point out that we frequently do not need to use it, so well have we executed our stewardship.
Archon Delaine has stated openly that with him and his, only power rules. This is how it must be; so be it. We shall deal with him in the manner that he understands and prove that we understood it when he was a suckling babe.
The Kumo Crew is certainly nothing new.
Preamble
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to oppose the political bands which have connected humanity with one another for so long, and to assume among the powers of the earth and galaxy, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
Statements of wrongs to be addressed.
Firstly, that the Empire and Federation have attempted to govern the affairs of man in such a way as has led to a deep divide between human kind, that seems at once irreparable and has led to further divides between kith and kin.
Secondly, that despite constant request for redress, the systems are run with disregard for the individual and their expression of freedom. This is proven by innumerable laws against particular avenues of production and is visibly identifiable by the bland variety of stations and docking ports across the known galaxy.
Thirdly, we include The Alliance in this system of corruption due mainly to it’s insistence that free states be ruled by economic might and power. Corporate greed is the beginning of all evil.
Fourthly, the intolerance for religious belief and actions that might lead to the questioning of authority claimed by the ‘leaders of the known galaxy.’ Religious freedom is the right of all free humans, regardless of its faults and inadequacies.
Fifthly, we believe it is the right of all free peoples to conduct their own commercial trade free of Federation regulation and Imperial oversight, that it is within a system devoid of corporate conglomerates, governmental inspection and interference that true wealth, liberty and the pursuit of happiness can be enjoyed.
Archon Delaine
While it is true that Archon Delaine does personify some of these negative traits, he mostly pursues a policy that allows for the development and growth of creative trade, ideas and cultures. He is the last bastion for billions of people against an overreaching Empire and the greedy clutching hands of the Federation. While some of our collective may personally find many of his methods distasteful, in this case the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Counter Arguments
Belief 1:
Archon Delaine is pro slavery.
Fact: Delaine allows the trade of slavery to exist within the borders of his protection, with the belief that over time the goodness of our human souls shall extinguish it. Delaine himself does require the ferrying of slaves from political dissidents and traitorous families. This is much preferable to alternative approaches of capital punishment and life imprisonment which are employed throughout the vast majority of the Federation, Alliance and Imperial systems. With times, these slaves may even re integrate themselves into society, free of the troublesome political beliefs they once believed fervently.
In the words of one ancient political leader.
“If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.”
Archon may be the devil to some, but to others he is the last best hope of humanity.
Belief 2:
Archon Delaine’s uprising is causing further breaking of political bonds necessary for the health of humanity.
Fact: The Archon believes in a system that allows all to thrive. It is a confederation of peoples working together for the common good without the necessity of common law that is at once oppressive to minorities and uplifting of the bourgeoisie.
Belief 3:
Archon Delaine is lining his own coffers.
Fact: It is the right of all peoples to pursue wealth if they do desire, but Archon neither expects nor forces all people to adhere to an economic system they do not believe in. Their goods are not taxed if they do not wish it, and there are a great deal of religious, secular and debauched planets within the systems of Delaine. Each to their own, and all for one another in the cause of freedom.
Closing Statement
With this document I hear by publicly acknowledge my pledge to Archon Delaine towards this end: freedom for all humanity. Freedom to pursue what religion and belief system they so choose. Freedom to be released from the chains of tyranny in its main forms; economical, religious, Imperial and regulatory.
I ask all to consider the cause and request their aid in combatting the evils of the Imperium, and the Federation, while pleading to the commanders and leaders of The Alliance that they remember their first calling. Freedom for all.
Irrelevant. Your mindset is taken to a dangerous extreme; we will respond appropriately. You personify the corruption that Arissa Lavigny wishes to burn from the stars; you shall be burned from the stars with your corruption, and those whose rule you usurped shall be added to our numbers, in many cases willingly if not most. No matter. If their loyalty cannot be earned in this generation it will be enforced, and in time their children or their children's children will recognize what was done for them and be grateful. The Empire is a thousand years old; it can be patient with the misguided subjects of dead pirates.
Why? You're a cross between a barbarian tribe and a crime syndicate. Neither of those things is new, and while I am not the most diligent student of history, I would be surprised if there hadn't been a similar combination before as well. Possibly the ancient Norse raiders that were commonly called "vikings".
I'm writing a short story about a theoretical meeting between Antal and Archon about non aggression, mind if I quote some of this?
Let us have tea, then.
And wait for the inevitable intervention of a moderator storming in and flipping our picnic table toward our faces out of disapproval in our peaceful thread hijacking...
Or a crowd of pro-Delaine and anti-Delaine overrunning the park...
*Sips from tea*
The stars are beautiful today...
*Chuckles in background*
Can't say that you're entirely wrong, but the first Duval rose to power by charisma and an iron will; he didn't bludgeon his way to the top. That's not to say the Empire as a whole is always above such tactics; we do what we must, but we did not start out that way; it is not our core. Look at Archon's origin, and compare the Empire to that... as he has started so shall he continue.
"Barbarian" and "crime" are nothing but subjective terms. I can easily claim that the Empire is barbaric and criminal in their approach, then how shall we determine who is inherently "correct"? By shooting at one another? By seeing which faction has more people?
I'm writing a short story about a theoretical meeting between Antal and Archon about non aggression, mind if I quote some of this?
Incapable, no. More like unwilling to take this much further. And I don't need to justify myself to a pirate. You've spoken, elsewhere, about hypocrisy; as the man who says "'Barbarian' and 'crime' are nothing but subjective terms", you are the pot calling the kettle black... or perhaps the pot calling the milk black? Though I doubt you'll agree.
The Empire does not always determine who is correct by shooting. Far from it. However, when we run into someone who tolerates no other way--as expressed by Archon Delaine himself, on more than one occasion, he does not--we are certainly capable of doing so. That's the great thing about the Empire: we have higher principles, but when we run into someone who does not, we will gladly take the gloves off and dive in, guns blazing, and without being untrue to ourselves or our core beliefs. Because in the end, we have only one:
The Way of Duval has kept the Empire alive and thriving through the worst kinds of adversity for a thousand years, and SHALL continue to do so!
Well, I can certainly tell you why I oppose piracy in quite simple terms: I like my property, and I've got a mighty need to hold on to it. So if you're wanting to go around taking my property without my permission, you and me are going to have some problems, see?
And if I hypothetically didn't have such a mighty need to hold on to my property, well then I wouldn't have anything for you to pirate and piracy wouldn't exist in the first place now would it?
So piracy can only exist in a condition where someone has property that they wish to keep, and another party wishes to deprive them of their rightful property without due compensation. In other words, it can only exist as a form of infringement on others' rights. Such a state of affairs would surely represent a perpetual threat to the safety and wellbeing of anyone who travels through space, and thus it is a state of affairs we should strive to avoid. Thus it stands to reason to regard the civilian practice of piracy as criminal.
By extension, a state carrying out piracy on its own population would be violating their natural rights and guilty of oppression. A state carrying out piracy against the population of another state would be engaging in an act of war. If such an act of war is carried in such a way that it serves no military purpose except to cause unnecessary civilian suffering, it would then be escalated to a war crime.
I stated this earlier in the thread, please ream R.M Hare's Utilitarian defense on Slavery, I won't say much more in that regard. However I would like to emphasize that the moral high-ground taking for granted here is quite impressive.Slavery and murder can be argued against on similar grounds. I like my liberty and my life, and I've got a mighty need to hold on to them. I don't suppose I should have to explain why people don't like being enslaved, imprisoned, or murdered. To imprison or kill someone you better have one heck of a good reason and be acting on some strong authority. Slavery is right out, as nothing can justify the abhorrent practice of owning another human being like an animal. Slavery gets special mention in the context of war crimes too: enslaving a prisoner of war can never serve any legitimate military purpose, it only causes unnecessary suffering.
Of course, as long as you are only oppressing your own people or waging war on our other enemies it is pragmatic for the Federation to leave you alone so we can focus on bigger tyrants, like the Empire. It doesn't make you right, it just makes you temporarily useful so long as you are a thorn in the Empire's side and not ours.
Were you to engage in open war against the Federation though, appeals to pacifism or "live and let live" would be foolish. By waging war on us you clearly wouldn't be letting us live, so why should we let you? The phrase "it takes two to fight" is foolish nonsense: it takes two to make peace, it only takes one to beat down. To refuse to fight back when you are under attack isn't nobility, it's suicide. To insist that the other party engage in pacifism while you attack them isn't reason, it's hypocrisy.
A fun note about the Empire though: a lot of the Empire is based on nostalgia for Rome, but Rome was a republic before it was an empire. In fact, its golden age of development and expansion occurred during its 500 year Republican period.
The rise of the Caesars and the abolishment of the senate were the beginning of the end, that began Rome's long, slow decline into oblivion. But the Caesars became the popular image of Rome, because they just so happened to be in charge during the time that a certain carpenter started preaching, started a rather popular religion, and got crucified. Rome's collapse was already beginning at that time, but it would be a couple hundred years before it became obvious and a few hundred more before it finished. Rome wasn't built in a day, neither would it be destroyed so quickly.
Laws do not exist to protect people--laws must be protected by men. Breaking the law, hurting other people, are not hard. It is, in fact, painfully easy.
The problem lies in your understanding of property. As Emerson and Goldman repeatedly emphasized, that government secured property and law created on that basis are inherently non self-reliant and the cause of countless dispute. Piracy includes negotiation with traders and agreeing to an amount of "protection fee" or "safe passage fee" similar to taxes or the toll one pays when crossing a certain area.
Just because a civilization find piracy illegitimate doesn't mean it extends to all culture. You don't see the US launching a war on China for its severe copyright infringement and piracy, buy working out agreements and law that will effectively limit its impact on the US.
That can be negotiated. Plus the Kumo Crew isn't completely known for piracy, therefore two countries can safely establish a mutual agreement in terms of where is a piracy-free zone and where is not.
There is no utility to slavery: it's grossly inefficient. Enslaved workers are less motivated to work, they require more resources and additional manpower dedicated to replacing that lost motivation. And then you've got to police for rebellion, escape attempts, sabotage, you'll spend twice as much labor keeping your slaves in line as you'll get out of them, especially with how easy it is to manufacture personal weapons with current technology. You're better off just buying their loyalty with some decent wages.I stated this earlier in the thread, please ream R.M Hare's Utilitarian defense on Slavery, I won't say much more in that regard. However I would like to emphasize that the moral high-ground taking for granted here is quite impressive.
War and conflict doesn't make anyone "right." Also that is what is called a working relationship. Conflict of interest is bound to occur, let it be ideology of materialistic. Thus it is in everyone's interest to tolerate one another to the best of their abilities.
The speculation here is off the chart, we never declared or engaged in open war with anyone, we never took the initiative to conquer anyone.
The Kumo Crew has no interest in engaging in war with the Federation, or anyone, since there is no gain but exhausted resource both human and material.
I don't expect the Empire to fall, but just have some general decency and reduce its hypocrisy in its moral crusades. If it wants to take on the image of a civilization, then act accordingly.