The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

Guilds and Player Owned Stations

  • Guilds and limited player-owned stations

    Votes: 788 54.4%
  • No guilds or player owned stations

    Votes: 506 34.9%
  • Guilds but no limited player-owned stations

    Votes: 155 10.7%

  • Total voters
    1,449
  • Poll closed .
Status
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Majinvash

Banned
So what are 50-100 bored guildies going to do?

Get involved in the rich content that ED has given us.............................oh

Although if dont correctly.

Having anything player owned in game is a huge step to having valuable content that people can interact with.

If you own something virtually in a game, it becomes of importance to you/the guild.

This can be seen by everyone who cries when they loose a ship.

Majinvash
 
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I assume you mean guild content? I can't see FD ever making content that is only accessible to a limited subset of players, but anything is possible I suppose. We did after all get content purely for the pew-pews.
 
Naivete at it's best.

Matchmaking doesn't matter when you've got 50-100 people globally, you'll end up with a few wings everywhere.

You don't need the tools in open. You already used them for what they needed to be used for in the other mode.

By segregating the guild players you give them the tools to be very organized and very bored, which does nothing but encourage them to use those tools to terrorize Open. I was hoping that your comment on this was just cynicism but after repeating it so many times it's clear that you actually think it's viable. It's not. Not even remotely.

Now you sound like your threatening to try to ruin the game unless you get your own way (shades of EVE again). Not a good sales pitch for your opinions.

When are people going to realize that everyone benefits from just doing it right and getting rid of all of this screwing around?

We don't agree with you that everyone would benefit, we are saying so, that's what forums are for.
 
Your answer to anyone that disagrees with your utopian image of introducing guilds into an avowedly guildless game, with mode switching enshrined as a key principal and a shared BGS across all three modes and the three current platforms, is "you are wrong and I have the facts to prove it".

Well you haven't convinced me with your "facts", sunshine. Nothing you have said, or quoted, or linked to causes me to think that introducing any guild-like structure or process to this game would be positive or beneficial. It wouldn't be the game I bought, or the game they outlined in any information to advertise and promote the game. I've been playing MMO games since 1998, so I have an opinion on how beneficial or otherwise guilds can be in online games.

Wonderful. You have an opinion.

http://www.psychologyofgames.com/2012/08/competition-cooperation-and-play/

http://www.psychologyofgames.com/2011/05/the-psychology-of-fair-play/

http://www.psychologyofgames.com/2010/10/the-psychology-of-anonymity/


http://www.psychologyofgames.com/2010/03/picking-your-guildies-the-role-of-attraction-selection-and-attrition/

http://www.digra.org/wp-content/uploads/digital-library/09291.50401.pdf

This wealth of information goes on for days.

You are one person arguing against the betterment of the entire community for your personal beliefs.

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Now you sound like your threatening to try to ruin the game unless you get your own way (shades of EVE again). Not a good sales pitch for your opinions.



We don't agree with you that everyone would benefit, we are saying so, that's what forums are for.

Yes, because everything is a personal threat that I intend to carry out with my own effort. It's not a threat, it's an observation of typical human behavior.

Not once in this entire thread have I said I have any interest in joining a guild. I couldn't care less about them. 20 years playing MMOs and the only game I've been a part of any social group in is Eve, simply because it did it better than all of the rest combined, yet I'm not here asking for a direct copy of Eve's social features either.

You can stop trying to make it personal now.

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So what are 50-100 bored guildies going to do?

The same thing they did in Bast over the weekend, only on a larger scale.
 
I made use of hyperbole in order to illustrate a point. You state that you have had the game for around a month and no longer find any pve content challenging to you. Well played sir. There are many, many CMDRs out there who even find being interdicted by something stronger than a Deadly Viper to be a one way trip to the insurance screen. If combat is your focus, unless you can find some good adversarial pvp to test you, I am not sure how long this game will hold your interest. Certainly not the 3 years minimum before FDev's vview of the future allows us to see if Guilds are on their top secret roadmap.
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Oh, it might've been a typo, or a mindslip, using the "c word" to reference organised player groups has a strongly negative association round these parts, Sheriff! ;)-

Order Date: 16 July 2015 so about a month, I have an expert ranking and entrepreneur and Aimless. I am a gamer and not the casual kind :p
I find being interdicted by a player's ship that is geared out for battle when I am geared with cargo slots not particularly challenging, I am more fish in a pond at that point, not quite in a barrel as I can and do run :) sometimes I get lucky, sometimes it is a trip to the insurance screen for me too, I am in no way saying or trying to imply I am some kind of super awesome unkillable player or anything, not even remotely.
I don't even think I am a particularly good pilot, I tend fly my spaceship like it is a F16 and what I mean by that is I have yet to use the side or vertical thrusters much except for landing. I have much to improve with my piloting skills, but yes the Ai is still not a challenge!
Oh sorry in my newness I did not know the "c" word was a bad thing , apparently the "g" word is bad around here to so what word would you suggest "solo" appears to be the only one that is ok.
 
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I've said it time and time again, ED's community can't hold a candle to Eve's for it's sociability, helpfulness and atmosphere. This thread has many shining examples of why that is.
 
Wonderful. You have an opinion.

And so do you. It is a bit like being on Oprah "Everyone gets an opinion!"

The first article you linked to is a blog that deals with game design. The main conclusion the author comes to, is that for games designers, implementing certain features where players can reward or be nice to each other, is best timed for directly after they have taken part in a cooperative experience rather than a combative one. I don't feel anyone would be surprised by that finding.
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His secondary conclusion, directed at players, is "Similarly, if you’re a player try not to let the fact that you’re competing against someone keep you from cooperating with them next round or accepting their friend request. They may be a pretty cool dude or gal once you’re wearing the same colored uniforms." Or, Don't hold grudges against someone who just destroyed your ship, as they may be a straight up fellow the next time you meet them.
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Neither of those conclusions strike me as a compelling reason to introduce guild-like structures in ED. As we have both stated, we have opinions. It does not appear that we will reach agreement in this matter.
 
And so do you. It is a bit like being on Oprah "Everyone gets an opinion!"

The first article you linked to is a blog that deals with game design. The main conclusion the author comes to, is that for games designers, implementing certain features where players can reward or be nice to each other, is best timed for directly after they have taken part in a cooperative experience rather than a combative one. I don't feel anyone would be surprised by that finding.
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His secondary conclusion, directed at players, is "Similarly, if you’re a player try not to let the fact that you’re competing against someone keep you from cooperating with them next round or accepting their friend request. They may be a pretty cool dude or gal once you’re wearing the same colored uniforms." Or, Don't hold grudges against someone who just destroyed your ship, as they may be a straight up fellow the next time you meet them.
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Neither of those conclusions strike me as a compelling reason to introduce guild-like structures in ED. As we have both stated, we have opinions. It does not appear that we will reach agreement in this matter.

That's wonderful, you read 2 paragraphs out of a tree of over 40 articles and studies I gave you and drew a conclusion. Try again, and if you have another response in less than 18 hours I'll still know you haven't read jack of what I linked. It is all relevant as a whole on player psychology.
 
And so do you. It is a bit like being on Oprah "Everyone gets an opinion!"

The first article you linked to is a blog that deals with game design. The main conclusion the author comes to, is that for games designers, implementing certain features where players can reward or be nice to each other, is best timed for directly after they have taken part in a cooperative experience rather than a combative one. I don't feel anyone would be surprised by that finding.
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His secondary conclusion, directed at players, is "Similarly, if you’re a player try not to let the fact that you’re competing against someone keep you from cooperating with them next round or accepting their friend request. They may be a pretty cool dude or gal once you’re wearing the same colored uniforms." Or, Don't hold grudges against someone who just destroyed your ship, as they may be a straight up fellow the next time you meet them.
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Neither of those conclusions strike me as a compelling reason to introduce guild-like structures in ED. As we have both stated, we have opinions. It does not appear that we will reach agreement in this matter.

Well some of the points are kind of valid. Just last week I killed someone playing 7 days to die, he complained that I had the best armor and weapons and he was newer so it was unfair. I agreed and I gave him the armor and weapon that I had on me and I went back to base to and made myself a new set of armor and pulled a new weapon out of my chest. There is no rule that says when you PVP you have to be a butt!
 
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Well some of the points are kind of valid. Just last week I killed someone playing 7 days to die, he complained that I had the best armor and weapons and he was newer so it was unfair. I agreed and I gave him the armor and weapon that I had on me and I went back to base to and made myself a new set of armor and pulled a new weapon out of my chest.

And don't forget that all Eve players are hellspawn, and wouldn't ever think of doing anything like making the game fun for the losing side by capturing one of the developers and ransoming his ship for a song.

[video=youtube;UtItWL6GfSM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtItWL6GfSM[/video]

Or that people don't form social bonds from such activities.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1nm1u4/the_s_singing_ransom_bohemian_rhapsody/
 
What does BGS stand for? I've seen it used a lot but can;t for the life of me figure out what it means (even though after you tell me I'll probably go DUH and slap myself ) :p
Background simulation. Powerplay is, at the moment at least, 'projected' onto the sim in that it has rather strange, but minimal -- and I believe unintended -- effects on, for example, what happens in systems that are physically within a sphere but aren't one of the flashpoints created by the mechanic.

The sim itself is, in my opinion, a thing of beauty, even though there are known and longstanding bugs with it - flawless beauty is cold and uninteresting. The point I made regarding the architecture of the game centres on this - while everyone else is out fighting clan wars or the like, it would be quite possible for one CMDR playing in open to dock in a system with a low population and trigger strategy-blocking local events such as civil unrest, famine, lockdown, etc., and that's not even going into how the BGS and faction influence interact (civil wars? Check. Expansions? Check. Wars for control of a system? Check.) If FD were to include player-owned stations, it would require fundamental (and arguably unfair) adjustments to the simulation if you wanted to avoid the situation of the player faction losing their station due to the activities of even one very determined CMDR. Again, why should player factions hold privileged status in a simulation that also allows for players to support NPC factions or play in solo without ever interacting with another CMDR directly? Moreover, contrary to what has been posted elsewhere on the thread, small groups of players -- say four, in a wing -- can have a surprisingly large effect on even high-population systems.

With the instancing system working as it does, and the mechanics around interdiction and combat being as they are, players don't even need to go into solo to achieve specific goals. Powerplay bundles hundreds of CMDRs together. Small groups - tiny, even, by MMO standards -- can have a significant effect provided they know what they're doing. This is why, imo, Powerplay is intended to have minimal impacts on the sim. If a large player corporation of, say, 1,000 players were actually to start interacting directly with the sim, they would be able to stomp across populated space in short order. The simulation is, again in my opinion, simply not intended, at the most basic level, to handle large player groups. Chaging it to suit large guilds would break the game for so many of the unaligned CMDRs.

For the record (and I repeat myself here), I'm in a player group. I like player groups. I think that large player groups would be an extremely bad idea for this game for the reasons given above. Introducing large player groups would probably require an extensive rewrite of the sim - large guilds and player-owned stations would break the simulation.

Engaging with the effects of trade, bounty-hunting, mercenary work in and out of conflict zones, the mission system and how the simulation reacts to it is endlessly interesting and really highlights to me how the game is (currently) centred around small groups of players working together. To repeat, I don't think that the players asking for guilds and player-owned stations really know what they're asking for.

It's not impossible to make Elite into first-person EVE; it's just a metric ass-ton of work (that may or may not work) that would utterly change the character of the game at a basic level. If such changes were to come about, I'd just say: be careful what you wish for.
 
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If I was in a guild in ED
A fellow guildie could tell me about the awesome new trade route that he just found and I could earn credits faster than the route I am currently running. Some stranger is not likely to do that as you would deplete the route faster but a fellow guildie has an interest rising the guild up so would more than likely!

If I was in a guild a fellow guildie could have taken me under his wing and showed me how to do all the things in game that I had to go watch Youtube video's to learn, sometimes I had to sit through a 30 minute video just to find what I wanted to learn. For example it was a while before I learned how to pick a side on the right menu screen when entering a conflict zone.

If I was in a guild in ED and I screwed up like I did this morning. I bought a new power plant yesterday and I didn't have enough credits for a full cargo load, only 90% full. The plan was to do one short load and get the credits up enough for a rebuy then back to a full load. This morning I forgot that plan and I ran insurance free. It was a one jump trade run and all was ok but if it wasn't and I was in a guild guildies could loan me the credits to get my ship back.

If I was in a guild in Ed
I would have an Elite NPC combat expert in my guild that could give me pointers on the pros and cons of this weapon load out or that weapon load out for my Anaconda and we could do it in game in chat instead of reading opinions from strangers on the forum.

If I was in a guild the Elite trader in the guild could tell me which modules I should equip to get the best jump range out of my type 9.


None of that was if I was in a guild we could go and kill everyone else and ruin everyone's gameplay. It can be that but it doesn't have to be!

If I was in a guild a guildie could explain Power Play to me because I googled it and I cam up with a 40 slide slideshow and that's as far as I got. I was like wow that looks complicated blah
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
By segregating the guild players you give them the tools to be very organized and very bored, which does nothing but encourage them to use those tools to terrorize Open. I was hoping that your comment on this was just cynicism but after repeating it so many times it's clear that you actually think it's viable. It's not. Not even remotely.

When are people going to realize that everyone benefits from just doing it right and getting rid of all of this screwing around?

Benefits to whom, exactly? Again, "benefit" is another subjective term in this context. Much simpler to avoid all the problems by not implementing anything rather than not doing it "right".

I thought that Guilds were not going to cause any problems for non-Guild members? Was that mis-spoken as well?
 
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