No atmospheric flight on the horizon

ocflyer

ocflyer
If the Elite ships don't fly in atmosphere, I'm not worried cuz the ships will look good as they drop. As a well known philosopher once said, "That's not flying. It's falling...with style!"
 
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david6768

D
CMDR Weatherwax said:
It's an interesting problem though and I would guess one which could not be overcome even with the best wing and craft design. From my admittedly poor understanding of aerofoil (is that the right terminology) design I thought the lift was due to the underside of the wing/ship shape etc having a greater surface area on the bottom than on the top and the increased speed of the air under the surface generated the lift effect. That's all based on earth's atmosphere and gravity so realistically how much benefit would an aerodynamic shape do with say gravity at 10x earth and maybe an atmosphere 1/10 the thickness (terminology fail again I imagine) anyway?
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Close, an airfoil has greater surface area on top and less on bottom so air flowing across the top speeds up and creates lower pressure on the top of the wing then the bottom. Aircraft lift is actually "Pull" if we were talking about the actual force that is generated and how flight works.
 

david6768

D
BTW there is plenty already to complain about without coming up with theoretical what if's to complain about!
I should know I am the king of complaining !
Don't think about it like airplane flight, think about it more of how a missile or rocket fly's as that is how you ship fly's, with thrust and thrust vectoring not with lift. They are huge rockets not airplanes!

There is said something positive for ED, whew I'm spent gonna take a break now :)
 
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Morbad

Morbad
Magnetic Sun said:
None of the ships are designed for it and unless we completely neglect any notion of realism, all of them would crash immediately. You need actual wings with engines to fly within an atmosphere.
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Magnetic Sun said:
The ships are huge. To keep them airborne they would have to go so fast the slightest maneuver would send them spinning into a mountain.
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You haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about.

Most of the ships in ED are so light that they will have more trouble not blowing away than staying airborne.

Also, most of the ships in ED clearly have far more than a 1:1 thrust to weight ratio (at Earth gravity), in every vector.

vonDutch said:
Besides, almost all ships have wings, or are (like the Cobra) a flying wing.
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Or lifting bodies.

777Driver said:
Compare the surface of those aircraft with the ships in ED. Our ships have as much lift capability as a brick.
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Several ED ships have a lot of potential aerodynamic lift, and not one of them is more dense than balsa wood.

The surface doesn't need to be perfectly smooth either. There are plenty of aircraft with rough wing surfaces. The turbulence and drag is undesirable, but it doesn't necessarily negate lift, if the forward thrust is greater than the drag.

CMDR Weatherwax said:
From my admittedly poor understanding of aerofoil (is that the right terminology) design I thought the lift was due to the underside of the wing/ship shape etc having a greater surface area on the bottom than on the top and the increased speed of the air under the surface generated the lift effect.
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This is mostly backwards.
 

n13L5

n13L5
Magnetic Sun said:
None of the ships are designed for it and unless we completely neglect any notion of realism, all of them would crash immediately. You need actual wings with engines to fly within an atmosphere.
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If you argue based on current technology for a sci-fi game, everything will always be wrong.

You couldn't even use the ships in space plausibly.

But since the ships can project artificial gravity in their interior, they can also project reverse gravity outside the ship and simply levitate on planets.
 

Morbad

Morbad
n13L5 said:
But since the ships can project artificial gravity in their interior, they can also project reverse gravity outside the ship and simply levitate on planets.
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ED ships don't have artificial gravity, and I'm fairly certain the only artificial pseudo gravity known to humanity in the ED universe is from centrifugal force...hence the spinning stations.
 

CMDR Alonso

C
Magnetic Sun said:
Also we should keep some of the good stuff for the next game in the series ;-)
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That's just stupid, if you can have it now why the hell would you wait, what? 20 years (as Elite Dangerous is confirmed to be a 10 year development game).

They can't just don't do it, with SC going to have it next year (and very detailed), not having such a thing would def kill their game comercially.

If you can go ambituous with a game, do it, don't ruin the game by not taking the chance
 

Magnetic Sun

M
The ED ships are like wingless rockets I hear you say. Why fast flybys is exactly what I'm proposing.

To actually slow down and enjoy a still view without a huge compromise on the visuals, I'd be amazed if they could pull that off in a persistent universe, with many different planets to choose from.

So let's say they do it one planet type at a time. Still. So much work to make it an experience that would blend in satisfactory with the rest of the universe, without feeling shallow or like paper worlds.

For me it's not just about giving us the possibility. It's about doing it right. And with the beauty of the current ED universe... ...

Anyway, it seems everyone is disagreeing with me so I guess I don't have a clue. Sorry for my ignorance...
 

Vasious

Vasious
Magnetic Sun said:
The ED ships are like wingless rockets I hear you say. Why fast flybys is exactly what I'm proposing.

To actually slow down and enjoy a still view without a huge compromise on the visuals, I'd be amazed if they could pull that off in a persistent universe, with many different planets to choose from.

So let's say they do it one planet type at a time. Still. So much work to make it an experience that would blend in satisfactory with the rest of the universe, without feeling shallow or like paper worlds.

For me it's not just about giving us the possibility. It's about doing it right. And with the beauty of the current ED universe... ...

Anyway, it seems everyone is disagreeing with me so I guess I don't have a clue. Sorry for my ignorance...
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So it isnt about the ships but your belief that they cannot pull it off technically?
 

Kyo

Kyo
I started reading this thread and immediately thought about t/w ratio...but see someone else brought it up
 

Lann

L
This is ridicuolus. What realism is there travelling faster than light??? And what about those shields existence??? And so powerful laser weapons??? Or better, what do you think about one man/woman piloting so big ships like anaconda without any human support???

There are other things, like inexistence of internet connection with bounties payouts but existence with instant reporting crimes against you.

Man, if this game is something, of course it isnt realistic. Its a sci-fi game with no doubt, with some realistic features.

So lets planetary landings in atmospheric planets be possible.

Fly safe commanders
 

askavir

askavir
Magnetic Sun said:
I know you guys badly wanna land and take your puddle out for a walk. That you think it would be possible in that fully fledged way, seems like pure naivety to me.
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But why? Several people have already demonstrated that things can perfectly fly in atmospheres without wings, only upwards thrust is needed. Helicopters do it today. VTOL jet fighters do it today. Elite ships have multi-facing powerful thrusters, they can keep themselves in the air with perfectly realistic physics reasons. Its not scifi or fantasy.

I'm beginning to think you just don't want to understand just for the sake of winning an argument.

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Magnetic Sun said:
The ED ships are like wingless rockets I hear you say. Why fast flybys is exactly what I'm proposing.
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Rockets only have forward thrust, that's why they need speed.
 
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