mxcross2002
M
we are only one small link in the great chain of evolution and our day WILL end
General / Off-Topic The meaning of life is something in Everyday Life.
- Thread starter AluminumAlloy
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The notion is a matter of faith. If you have it, you don't need evidence, if you don't then no amount of evidence will do.
On this matter, we need to stick to considering that which we know.
The universe is too perfect.
What had happened is set. What will happen is largely predictable. If you look at the universe from the perspective of a superior being, who lives outside the confines of time, then the entire span of the universe, from beginning to end, is nothing more than a single event. The concerns and cares of you or I are little more than minuscule building blocks, making up a much larger fabric. The individual grief, happiness, disappointments or joys are more closely analogous to a few blots on a painting, or a few lines in a novel. Their causes are inevitable and their consequences already done.
Dying is the only real control we have. If we go on to everlasting life we will loose that solitary piece of perceived control over our existence. Living forever is the real tragedy.
Judgement is pointless, since none of us as any measure by which we can make reasonable decisions. If there is no judgement, then any after life must also already have been set. If there is indeed more than one destination then that must also have been set since none of us can possibly know what we should or shouldn't be doing now to have any measure of control over that after-life destination.
Whatever supremacy caused everything to spring into existence, must be essentially indifferent since it caused everything to happen. Good and evil are subjective.
The best we can strive for is to do no harm. That was the message of Jesus, of Buddha, of Confucius, of Muhammad, of Socrates of Wiccan.
Here's a philosophical abstraction to ponder: One day we will truly wake-up and realise that our so-called 'waking life' was nothing more than a dream anyway, and that we had been asleep and dreaming of 'being awake' in a physical existence. That realisation will happen one day, the day when our 'death' arrives.
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What really happens when we die.
《grabs chest》 Everything goes absolutely dark... Wait.... brilliant, blinding light.... suddenly hear this very soothing, calm English Woman's voice all around me...hmmm, looks like I'm in some sort of advanced cockpit..... hears voice calmly say, "under attack Commander" what the Hell...... 《sudden explosion》 I'd say it's a ligitimate scenario.....
《grabs chest》 Everything goes absolutely dark... Wait.... brilliant, blinding light.... suddenly hear this very soothing, calm English Woman's voice all around me...hmmm, looks like I'm in some sort of advanced cockpit..... hears voice calmly say, "under attack Commander" what the Hell...... 《sudden explosion》 I'd say it's a ligitimate scenario.....
Yes there is always something which destroys the feast
I speak of a universal God, a force ... not necessarily the God of our religions on earth. A force, but not the dark force, of course
I speak of a universal God, a force ... not necessarily the God of our religions on earth. A force, but not the dark force, of course
Does something look familiar here?
I speak of a universal God, a force ... not necessarily the God of our religions on earth. A force, but not the dark force, of course
ok. Well I am forced to suspend my belief in such a universal god until I have more proof.
I think I have the kind of brain that completely lacks the talent for any kind of religious belief. It just is not in me.
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Please beware of the obvious fallacy!
There are all kinds of things that resemble other kinds of things but are nevertheless something completely unrelated.
For example there are potatoes that look like little men, but after some scrutiny turn out to be not little men at all.
It turns out these potatoes are not intelligent at all.
Of course there are also men that are not intelligent, but that still doesn't make them potatoes
.Another example: Wallnuts can look surprisingly like brains, but that doesn't mean wallnuts can think.
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Contradiction in terms there.
Don't think so, unless I did not express myself clearly.
I did not use "belief" in a religious sense. In a religious sense there is no restriction on what you can believe.
You can believe in all kinds and types of supernatural things without the slightest inclination to look for anything resembling reasonable proof. Many religious are even proud of their ability to believe without reasonable proof. To me that is incomprehensible.
Perhaps I should explain that I only believe in stuff that I personally consider reasonably justifiable according to methodological naturalistic principles. Gods and other (semi)magical/supernatural stuff of all shapes and forms, presumed visible or invisible, do not belong in that category.
So, no... there is no contradiction in terms.
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Belief, whatever the context, is an accepted construct in the absence of concrete evidence. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/belief?s=t
But if I may point out, can you subject your declared position that there is no possibility of reasonable justification for a belief? Or is that position a belief?
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Yes of course. But I don not see the compassion, the mercy, the love, the serenity in all this. I do not see a soul
Have you ever checked the probabilities for a Universe with life to emerge within the whole of possiblities?
Its something like 1 in 1 (add 100 zeroes here).
I'm not saying God did it. I'm not even saying God exists. What I'm saying is that life may play a larger role than we think, and the Universe may have a goal, not just some fluke.
Instead of invoking a lottery ticket or God as to why we are here, there may be other options that would fascinate us.
I personnaly believe we experience a time dimension amongst an infinite pattern space. All probabilities exists in that timeless pattern, but we find ourselves riding only one time dimension between the beginning and the end of time. In some way, humans do play a small part in all of this. We can't change the ultimate fate of the universe but we can influence the road we take.
I don't believe the Universe is dying, I think it is only moving forward to its ultimate state which is perfect balance.
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Definitive proof that god is a sock. We should all bow down to our hosiery overlords, lest they smite us with their cheesy smelling wrath.
That is just one particular definition. The reality is much more complex.
That is not my position at all. My statement was much more particular.
There are all kinds of justifiable beliefs. In fact justifiability is at the heart of the matter.
If I ever met someone who could justify his/her belief in the magical or supernatural in a convincing manner, I might even become a believer myself.
So far this has not occurred. Quite the opposite is true.
It feels to me you are too much on the offense. Or should I say it is my belief
.Do not feel attacked. If you believe in gods or any related supernatural stuff, you are welcome to it.
It is just something my mind can't do without what I consider to be sufficient evidence.
It seems that what is considered sufficient evidence differs greatly for every person and that is what causes a lot of the bickering.
That is just one particular definition. The reality is much more complex.
That is not my position at all. My statement was much more particular.
There are all kinds of justifiable beliefs. In fact justifiability is at the heart of the matter.
If I ever met someone who could justify his/her belief in the magical or supernatural in a convincing manner, I might even become a believer myself.
So far this has not occurred. Quite the opposite is true.
It feels to me you are too much on the offense. Or should I say it is my belief
Do not feel attacked. If you believe in gods or any related supernatural stuff, you are welcome to it.
It is just something my mind can't do without what I consider to be sufficient evidence.
It seems that what is considered sufficient evidence differs greatly for every person and that is what causes a lot of the bickering.
I do apologise if I seem to be on the offensive. That is certainly not my intention. We are seeking a discussion here.
You do seem to have your contexts mixed up.
A belief is a construct in the absence of actual evidence. You believe your partner loves you and they believe you love them. There can never be any actual evidence. (And there can't.)
Next is a postulate. If the conditions, temperature, atmosphere and so on are sufficient, we can postulate there is a likelihood of life. Hence NASA tends to concentrate its efforts on Mars and not so much on Venus. There is some scientific, evidence based reasoning behind concentrating the search on Mars.
You are essentially saying that you can only accept the notion of Gods (sic) is you have some evidence.
Now, the notions of higher powers fall into the area of study, called metaphysics. Conjecture for the purpose of greater understanding.
I suspect that you are making the same error as Stephen Fry, Dawkins and many others, in that you are rejecting religion. That is a very different thing.
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As I said it is not as simple as that. That is why I earlier mentioned the epistemological distinction between justifiable beliefs and those that are, at least in my mind, unjustifiable.
I feel my earlier statement was very succinct in that respect.
As I said I need a belief to be reasonably justifiable. For me belief in supernatural/magical stuff currently is not.
The problem is there is not much to study.
You can only study the stuff people have made up about these so called higher powers. The actual thing is forever elusive.
It actually is so painfully elusive that as far as I know there is no distinction to make between higher powers and that what does not exist at all.
No that has nothing to do with what I said at all.
As you said yourself: '" That is a very different thing".
Indeed it is and I did not mention it or allude to it for that very reason.
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No, the field is quite extensive. But those areas which are based upon constructs, that which people make up as you put it, are a different subject altogether.
I won't suggest you should study, but if you reject then you should have some idea of what it is you are rejecting. As things stand, you are rejecting religion, Theology in particular. That is the individual practices and customs. An interesting field and important to an understanding of sociology, current affairs, economics and numerous other significant fields.
Here, we are discussing the metaphysical aspects of the significance of our attitudes to living and the living condition. That is very different from Theology