Is this a rip off? Or is this Frontier first encounters all over again?

EidLeWeise

EidLeWeise
Penthux said:
And how many people exactly are you speaking on behalf of? Think about it before you reply.
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I don't know how many people he's speaking on behalf of, but I am a 1st round beta backer and I was fully expecting to be playing beta in January. However, I for one accept it. Through Frontier's communication I was aware that we would not come out of Alpha in January, equally through their messages I know where we are in the Alpha process. I also know that Beta will come out after All of Alpha is done. What I don't know is a date. However I don't expect to know a date either. It is done when it is done. Things are getting fixed for the Alpha builds and we can see that, so what this means to me is that my Beta, Gamma and final game will be better. That is what I want. I have waited this long a few weeks or even months is nothing so long as when I finally get it Elite Dangerous is a good game. [troll] and if it isn't we can look at Star Citizen. ;) [/troll]

Please don't get me wrong, I would love to be told every minute of every day what the current status is. I just don't expect it and frankly it wouldn't help anyway.

Eid
 

Memnoch

M
I think many of us had widely different ideas of what phase was going to start when, and many of these ideas were fanciful and hugely optimistic at best. I though that Beta 1 might have been starting in March for instance. Given that we have at least 2 more Alpha phases to after after this one, and these ones are likely to be more involved than this one it's highly unlikely.
 

AtomicHorror

AtomicHorror
We seem to be still running up against old cultural expectations. Some people back a crowd funding project and expect that to carry some guarantees, as if they've just pre-booked the latest iteration of Call of Duty. I think in a way, Frontier's background as a mainstream developer and the excellent presentation of the Alpha have skewed expectations too. It looks like a triple-A game, whatever that means.

I bought Minecraft back during it's beta and my expectations were utterly different to what I'd previously had for other games in terms of release dates and communication. The development meandered on, but I got to enjoy each new iteration until the final release. And actually even that was little more than a vague milestone in the ongoing development of that game. So when I backed Elite at the beta level, I adopted the same attitude. In fact, I backed it with the assumption that there was a reasonable chance I'd lose my money and never get to play the game at all. That seemed a very sensible attitude to me.

Yes, this is a (sort of) big budget game by a (sort of) mainstream developer. But it was crowd funded for a reason. It was not and still isn't a safe commercial bet. It is ambitious and very far off the roadmap that modern games follow. It's an indie game, a big expensive one. If that makes sense. A big game with an indie heart, perhaps. We can't reasonably think of this process in any other way.
 

synchromesh

synchromesh
Going back to the C64, Speccy, Amiga and even PC games..

When in a magazine were games ever released on the time the reviews said they would be ...Always has and will be an ETA

Cant we just accept the game construction is finished on time.........Its just being tested !!
 
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cadmonkey33

cadmonkey33
Memnoch said:
Given that we have at least 2 more Alpha phases to after after this one, and these ones are likely to be more involved than this one it's highly unlikely.
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I dunno, I think this phase was always going to be the toughest. They're testing so many new systems, some of them critical.
I can't see the coming phases running as long myself.
 

deusx_ophc

deusx_ophc
Squicker said:
For a forum full of what I initially thought were clever people, most seem to have a lot of difficulty holding TWO thoughts in their heads simultaneously:

The game can be late for valid reasons
The communication from FD can be improved

It is possible for both things to legitimately happen and the OP actually says this in his post, if anyone would care to read it properly.
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more communication saying what exactly or just more?!

again, there is a huge amount of communication on ED, on a near enough daily basis. more than i often get through (i.e. missing posts by devs etc).

i get spamm'ed to death by another great project CU (camelot unchained) - mark there used to send a open "once and future road map/sprint report" every week. nuts, useless information to backers. constantly shifting delays and explaining why/how/when. transparency gone crazy :rolleyes:

based on what the backers of various levels and the interested public get on elite: dangerous i do not see how communication can be improved.

obviously our friends at FDEV have other views, ref. Community and Events Manager and Head of Marketing appointment. again, that has been communicated.


i really struggle to see how you could sensibly do more :cool:
 

stephen_usher

stephen_usher
synchromesh said:
Going back to the C64, Speccy, Amiga and even PC games..

When in a magazine were games ever released on the time the reviews said they would be ...Always has and will be an ETA
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Or even hardware. It was well understood that the date given for shipping computers was probably a few months before they actually would ship.

I believe the BBC Model A was 6 months late, the Model B nearly a year.

The ZX Spectrum was, I think, 3 months late. The Sinclair QL was 4 months late with a dongle to hold the bits of the ROM which wouldn't fit inside!

Now, the Elite/Flan/Elan Enterprise 64/128 took the biscuit, that was more than two years late! :D

The home/personal computer industry has always run on such a flexible idea of release times. Worry not, Elite: Dangerous will arrive, hopefully not with a dongle on the back.;)
 

deusx_ophc

deusx_ophc
Matt168 said:
The waiter will always tell you when he thinks you'll be eating though. Plus he only asks for the money after the meal.
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just that you are not pledging a meal, you are buying it :D

i do understand that "informed choice" is a difficult concept and that marketing types are trying to confuse you, but really ;)
 

Riandor

Riandor
Matt168 said:
The waiter will always tell you when he thinks you'll be eating though. Plus he only asks for the money after the meal.
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Never been to a restaurant where they tell you how long it will take! But anyway...

As Gamma is going to be available to anyone who was in the KS and is pretty much a full release (with the right to reset if necessary) I'm not sure what the argument is here?

Pretty much everyone on these forums will be in game with probably only a minimal delay.
 

Warbler

W
deusx_ophc said:
more communication saying what exactly or just more?!

again, there is a huge amount of communication on ED, on a near enough daily basis. more than i often get through (i.e. missing posts by devs etc).

i get spamm'ed to death by another great project CU (camelot unchained) - mark there used to send a open "once and future road map/sprint report" every week. nuts, useless information to backers. constantly shifting delays and explaining why/how/when. transparency gone crazy :rolleyes:

based on what the backers of various levels and the interested public get on elite: dangerous i do not see how communication can be improved.

obviously our friends at FDEV have other views, ref. Community and Events Manager and Head of Marketing appointment. again, that has been communicated.


i really struggle to see how you could sensibly do more :cool:
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Well that's an interesting comparison because MJ has had a few cracks of the multiplayer online whip, I doubt he's taking anything for granted these days.

There isn't enough transparency over here.

This is a quote from newsletter #14 (dated 24/11/13):

"As David explained in the last Dev Diary video, new alpha test builds will be released periodically adding new features and content until the alpha process is complete and we’re ready to move into Beta. Our goal is to make this right and we will take what time is needed in each phase to get it right."

Seems ambiguous to me, as does what was said in that dev diary.
 

SAB380

SAB380
sporadic_kit said:
Dear Frontier,

I'd like to have a better understanding of when this game will be released. I pledged £35 for the game on kickstarter all that time ago and it was said back then that elite dangerous would be released in March 2014.

You are now asking for £75 to play the Alpha / Beta version and on your forum you state:

"As you know the Alpha has several stages to get through and the Beta stages cannot commence until the Alpha is completed. Because of this it is not possible to give you an timeframe. The best thing to do is to keep your eyes here as all the latest information will go right to this place. "

It seems to me like the longer you keep on charging people £75 to play ( people that already pledged £35) then the more money you are making and the more money we are spending. Is this fair, given that you haven't yet indicted when the final version will be available? Is this whole thing a rip off? Will the game ever materialize?

Three words then spring to mind. Frontier First Encounters (oh yes that old chestnut). Many people who backed this may not remember what happened there, but that game never got released on the Amiga, even after it was marketed as being available frontier started taking orders on it, selling it then..... nothing. Many disappointed and messed about customers. Including me.

As an initial backer, that makes me and the rest of the backers key project stakeholders. I understand that project milestone dates slip and I also understand that the game needs to fully tested. I don't find it acceptable that your communication of project progress and future project milestones has been so poor.

At the very least, your project manager should issue Bi-Weekly project updates to all stakeholders. Most importantly, to your paying customers. Even if dates slip which of course they will, that's fine, theres probably a good reason for that. We deserve to know. Even if you don't want to commit to dates, at the very least let us know how many more stages it has to go through (and how many more costs for us there will be along the way).

I appreciate your consideration of my frustration here.

Thank you.
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I"m a project manager working in global IT by trade...and you're points are all fair.

Except Kickstarter is quite clear that you are 'pledging' and making 'donations'.

People who give money aren't investors and aren't stakeholders.....we are unofficially because we all want the game and have an interest, but they have no obligation to officially treat us as such.

I think a large part of it is crowd sourcing being in its infancy as well.

Game developers will have to learn to factor in some buffer time because these veterans already know EVERYTHING slips when it comes to software development.

And all the Kickstarter games so far will have to dedicated a small amount of resources to giving better progress updates along the way rather than being so adhoc with a 'trust us...' approach.

I do however cut Braben and Roberts a lot of slack in that regard because I do trust them totally ...... though I do add at least 6 months to any date Chris Roberts gives :D
 
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Herik

Herik
Penthux said:
Welcome to reality, my friend. Sorry that you feel the same way I do. Sucks, somewhat, doesn't it? :rolleyes:



And how many people exactly are you speaking on behalf of? Think about it before you reply.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
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Speaks for me quite well, thank you! I don't find this delay a problem:rolleyes:
 
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