F2P Failure and Elite Dangerous

[jedt]

Different strokes I guess but if there were subs I would not be interested. As it happens there can never be subs for early backers at least as that was part of the KS promise

did you not see the word 'option'?

not compulsory, not mandatory.......OPTIONAL

perhaps, for the hard of thinking, i should explain..... optional means you don't have to if you don't want to. you have a choice. you can if you want to BUT you DON'T HAVE TO......

sorry about the shouting.... nah, not really.

 

[Exmortis]

I have a visceral hatred for any type of F2P that uses microtransactions for anything other than aesthetics. It completely corrupts the game if money buys power/advancement. I'm fine with the way Valve has done it with TF2 and DOTA 2, which consists mostly of outfits, etc., but the others are right out. I won't even try any games like that and won't allow my kid to either. I prefer subscriptions.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

did you not see the word 'option'?

not compulsory, not mandatory.......OPTIONAL

perhaps, for the hard of thinking, i should explain..... optional means you don't have to if you don't want to. you have a choice. you can if you want to BUT you DON'T HAVE TO......

sorry about the shouting.... nah, not really.

No need to be a prat about it. !! Perhaps you have been living under a rock and missed how some recent funding models have spoiled some games.

 

[TerranAmbassador]

Normally, I'm all for subscriptions. However, in the context of this game, I think they would negatively impact the game. My reasoning is its impact on the way people view the game.

The game costs ~60 USD up front. On top of this, you have expansions, which are another 40 to 50 USD each, if I understand correctly, and then on top of THAT, you've got (probably) microtransactions.

Optional or not (this is one of those things that a remarkably large amount of people seem to miss), people are going to be put off by the idea of paying another 10 to 15 USD a month on top of all THAT.

Essentially, as we've seen here, a lot of people are going to see the word "subscription" and shut down, either refusing to play the game because they think that the subscription is mandatory, or they're going to think that FD are being greedy (because of the aforementioned box price + expansions) and refuse to play because of that.

If the initial download were free, or extremely cheap, I could see subscriptions working for ED. But not in this case.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If the initial download were free, or extremely cheap, I could see subscriptions working for ED. But not in this case.

Exactly....... box price, dlc MT and subs............ no thanks. And "optional subs would be too likely to be abused as well, just like the "optional" MTs in dungeon keeper

 

[jedt]

No need to be a prat about it. !! Perhaps you have been living under a rock and missed how some recent funding models have spoiled some games.

not being a prat about it.... whatever that means...

just trying to get across the idea of optional.... which you still don't seem to get.

the ideal model, as far as i can see, has buy the box which is optional. pay for addons/expansions which is optional. mts which are optional. subs, which are optional.

and, to answer your question... no, i do not live under a rock..... do you?

 

[Memnoch]

I have paid my money and if Frontier do in fact try to squeeze me for more via micro transactions or subscriptions I will, reluctantly, put elite away and move along.

Then don't. There will be plenty of others who will be willing to buy MT and they will pay for the upkeep of the game going forward. No need to stop playing then. :smilie:

did you not see the word 'option'?

not compulsory, not mandatory.......OPTIONAL

Perhaps you have been living under a rock and missed how some recent funding models have spoiled some games.

And "optional subs would be too likely to be abused as well, just like the "optional" MTs in dungeon keeper

I agree with Mike. Oh dear, I've come over all Gordon Brown...The Dungeon Keeper "game" is a classic example of where the mechanics of MT have destroyed the game play, so that yes, technically they are optional. But there is no way anyone could enjoy that game without them. If anyone believes that it is okay to have to wait 24 hours to mine out a single block then they are the reason why gaming is headed in this direction.

 

[jedt]

Then don't. There will be plenty of others who will be willing to buy MT and they will pay for the upkeep of the game going forward. No need to stop playing then. :smilie:




I agree with Mike. Oh dear, I've come over all Gordon Brown...The Dungeon Keeper "game" is a classic example of where the mechanics of MT have destroyed the game play, so that yes, technically they are optional. But there is no way anyone could enjoy that game without them. If anyone believes that it is okay to have to wait 24 hours to mine out a single block then they are the reason why gaming is headed in this direction.

are you saying that that is the only possible iteration of optional?

Gordon brown......texture like sun, maybe you've been hitting too much?

 

[Memnoch]

All I'm saying is that some games have suffered badly because of the greed of developers. They slow gameplay down to a crawl and then offer "boosters" to make the game acceptable to play in order to make money. Dungeon Keeper may well be the proverbial straw. Many other games do this, for things like Gold earning boosters or XP boosters. But this game has taken it to a ludicrous extreme. It can be done better than this. And all EA have done is given everyone yet another reason to hate them.

To kind of answer your question, there is another "optional". Just don't download the game, and for the love of God don't give any money to the muggers at EA.

Gordon brown......texture like sun, maybe you've been hitting too much?

Oh, and no need to get personal. I didn't.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I see MT as service. Now, this service can be badly and greedy implemented and developers and publishers suffer from it in the end. Well made games with good MT service flourish and people enjoy them (TF2 for example). I recently installed Steam on my new PC Linux partition and have wasted lot of hours without even thinking spending my money on their shop. I got all cool stuff kids play around with.

I understand people's reservations on this, but I believe in good business sense. People without it will destroy game like new Dungeon Keeper or anything else. However as niche (although popular niche) at this point ED can't really risk bad karma with screwing up MT. As Kroy and others have said, they will just leave, and rightly so.

That's why I like DDF having discussion about it.

 

[jedt]

All I'm saying is that some games have suffered badly because of the greed of developers. They slow gameplay down to a crawl and then offer "boosters" to make the game acceptable to play in order to make money. Dungeon Keeper may well be the proverbial straw. Many other games do this, for things like Gold earning boosters or XP boosters. But this game has taken it to a ludicrous extreme. It can be done better than this. And all EA have done is given everyone yet another reason to hate them.

To kind of answer your question, there is another "optional". Just don't download the game, and for the love of God don't give any money to the muggers at EA.


Oh, and no need to get personal. I didn't.

ea?

I do apologize....... I thought we were talking about FD

ho hum

 

[Memnoch]

The thread seemed to have meandered on to MT in general, citing examples of it being done badly i.e. Dungeon Keeper by EA. FD should avoid that particular method of MT, although I cannot see how they could ever slow down the gameplay of ED that would then justify "boosters". Cosmetics, extra commander slots etc. will probably be it and perfectly acceptable.

 

[cadmonkey33]

The thread seemed to have meandered on to MT in general, citing examples of it being done badly i.e. Dungeon Keeper by EA. FD should avoid that particular method of MT, although I cannot see how they could ever slow down the gameplay of ED that would then justify "boosters". Cosmetics, extra commander slots etc. will probably be it and perfectly acceptable.

They could make the speed boost button require gems that you can very slowly mine, or buy!

*runs*

 

[Memnoch]

NOOOOOOOOO!!! Have some rep!

 

[Kroy]

Subs models didn't kill SWTOR btw.

What killed swtor was

1) Game was too easy
2) No open world PvP that works
3) Game breaking bugs in end-game instances
4) Only "end-game" was to replay alts
5) Game was entirely content related, and they couldn't make content fast enough, or with enough quality.
6) Crap servers - couldn't get enough people on one server initially, had to expand number of servers, then had to drop servers, merging everywhere.
7) limited number of PvP arenas
8) very slow respose to legitimate complaints

People were happy to pay, but not when there was no game to play. E: D shouldn't have that problem. Firstly it's no where near the hype levels of SWTOR. Secondly, it's a sand box, so it will always give entertainment to a hardcore group of fans.

It's certainly worth going through SWTOR at least once now that it's F2P, and I hear they have also added new stuff to appease the more demanding gamers. Shame they launched too early and couldn't keep up with them in the first place.

Anyways, Elite: Dangerous needs to make money for Frontier Developments. Think of the staff costs in that team. They all need to put bread on the table. And their shareholders want to see the fortune of the company improve. So yeah, if we have the following options

Option 1) Buy game - play game. Free, forever
Option 2) Buy game + expansions. Play shiny new stuff each time it's release
Option 3) Buy game + CashShop/MT. Suit yourself how much you buy, what you buy and when. Some perks, costmetic items, cash
Option 4) Buy game + payupfront subscription type thing and get some perks, equivalent credit or whatever the deal is.


Four options, covering all potential customers. I'm sure with time, effort, concentration and a nice packet of post-it notes, a decent plan could be drawn from teh above.

 

[jedt]

All I'm saying is that some games have suffered badly because of the greed of developers.....

sorry, missed this first time round. its not, usually (won't say ever) the developers that are to blame. its usually (won't say always) the publishers that try to screw every last penny possible from players.

 

[Theodrid]

No more revenue streams does not equate to a better game, or better development. Possibly yes better marketing. Development of P2W, F2P and MT revenue streams would be a cancer and poison, constantly evolving to find new ways to monetize and farm the player base.

P2W, F2P and MT revenue streams destroy immersion in the world. They make a worse game and will drive me away if implemented. I am not alone 95% of people will not P2W/F2P, and unfortunately I don't particularly want to play with the 5% who would be remaining in a competition to see who can buy more stuff.

I don't believe that FD will let this happen, they wont let us down.

I never once mentioned P2W, I was referring to the current ideas with regards to MT's - cosmetic items etc. And I respectfully disagree, quite often, (not always I admit), more money can mean richer expansions, retention and expansion of dev teams and much, much more.

 

[Memnoch]

sorry, missed this first time round. its not, usually (won't say ever) the developers that are to blame. its usually (won't say always) the publishers that try to screw every last penny possible from players.

That's very true. In FDs case I hope that pressure doesn't exist. I've thought about this a lot and I just cannot think of a way to drag out gameplay in ED that would cater for MT to be exploited in the form of boosters. I can think of some daft ones of course, like it taking you 24 hours realtime to hyperspace to another system, unless you bought the hyperspace booster for the low, low price of £14.99, but none that make sense. Once again, I hope that FD can't either.

 

[Theodrid]

re.

Subs models didn't kill SWTOR btw.

What killed swtor was

1) Game was too easy
2) No open world PvP that works
3) Game breaking bugs in end-game instances
4) Only "end-game" was to replay alts
5) Game was entirely content related, and they couldn't make content fast enough, or with enough quality.
6) Crap servers - couldn't get enough people on one server initially, had to expand number of servers, then had to drop servers, merging everywhere.
7) limited number of PvP arenas
8) very slow respose to legitimate complaints

People were happy to pay, but not when there was no game to play. E: D shouldn't have that problem. Firstly it's no where near the hype levels of SWTOR. Secondly, it's a sand box, so it will always give entertainment to a hardcore group of fans.

It's certainly worth going through SWTOR at least once now that it's F2P, and I hear they have also added new stuff to appease the more demanding gamers. Shame they launched too early and couldn't keep up with them in the first place.

Anyways, Elite: Dangerous needs to make money for Frontier Developments. Think of the staff costs in that team. They all need to put bread on the table. And their shareholders want to see the fortune of the company improve. So yeah, if we have the following options

Option 1) Buy game - play game. Free, forever
Option 2) Buy game + expansions. Play shiny new stuff each time it's release
Option 3) Buy game + CashShop/MT. Suit yourself how much you buy, what you buy and when. Some perks, costmetic items, cash
Option 4) Buy game + payupfront subscription type thing and get some perks, equivalent credit or whatever the deal is.


Four options, covering all potential customers. I'm sure with time, effort, concentration and a nice packet of post-it notes, a decent plan could be drawn from teh above.

As a subscriber on SWTOR since release, I agree with all you have said, I would have to add to you list though, the game was rushed out because of EA and its investors before Bioware wanted it too, which links in with the buggy release you mentioned but also resulted in nowhere near as many features as were planned. Couple that with the fact that in the period since launch EA has replaced/laid off virtually every original Bioware employee that was working on TOR, massively cut funding, (in some ways inevitable with the swindling population and falling subs).

All of this has meant less content release, except of course for their beloved cartel market MT shop, no promises of further class story quests, (in a story driven, fully voiced MMO), poor communication with the community and a less than inspiring 'roadmap' for 2014.

Largely agree with your post though.

 

[Memnoch]

I enjoyed SWTOR until I got to Chapter 2 or Part 2 whatever it was. I don't know what I expected but quickly coming to the inspired(!) realisation it would just be more of the same and I never went back. I really do hate hotkey MMOs.

I miss Neorcron though. That was a lot of fun, and I think the first MMO to be first person and actually require some skill to attack your enemies.