I know, thats what I meant with hosting. But no client should ever be able to mess with the data of another client without having a server to validate things, or things will go south very rapidly (like Bortas mentioned).
Hackers and combat loggers, the demise of ED
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I know, thats what I meant with hosting. But no client should ever be able to mess with the data of another client without having a server to validate things, or things will go south very rapidly (like Bortas mentioned).
No client is messing with another clients data; all it's doing is making assumptions and sending its own data to the server - a series of validation checks on the server would determine if the kill (for example) is legitimate or not.
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Undoubtedly so.
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See my previous response (directly above yours).
ninja'd lol
well the 2 sources of truth would work in that scenario... now answer me this... (this actually does occur on my end on occasion) the person playing has to end task the client... due to lockup, or hardware failure (for some reason my keyboard loses itself sometimes and I suspect its actually the powered hub it plugs into failing) and don't mistake me with someone who combat logs per se... because this happesn to me on occasions both in and out of combat...
I really see the only solution being one of the launcher reporting 'conditions' when either the client has ended or dropped connection and the launcher has re-established connection with the games servers... so more telemetry that fdev can use to determine the reason for the client ending or connection dropping etc... of course this won't help determing connection dropout reasons but will allow fdev to establish if a given player is constantly dropping connecton when they are on the losing end of a fight etc...
Once a player is established as habitually combat logging then fdev can act on it accordingly... maybe by initially an in game warning message, followed by maybe 10% or 20% of their in game currency removed / fined as a second warning, third warning is being relegated to 'loggers' instances and as a last resort product licence revocation...
Hardware failure is a reality; however I believe (without doing the requisite research) that it would be difficult to monitor hardware to make sure it's all working correctly, that's not the clients job. The client has to work on the assumption that everything is working fine; there are situations that are out of our control (BSOD's for example) however luckily we have event logging which is clear evidence that you had a hardware failure (the event logs report this). So if needs be, you will be able to get your stuff back if you weren't able to log back in in time. Perhaps FD could implement a "restoration" feature with attached log files (for example).
Which brings me to my comment about timeouts; the timeout could last a minute, or it could last 5 (though your ship won't remain in the game for that long). During that time, the server basically stores your last known state for the last N minutes (where N is the timeout counter). If you are able to log back in before the timeout expires, then that state is restored.
Again, this is an over-simplification; I don't have the mental prowess to sit down and work it all out as I'd like to enjoy my long weekend, thank you.
Basically though, that's the gist of it.
Agreed.
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If I buy a BMW and I drive it for a few months but then never touch it again, meanwhile new versions keep coming out but I keep telling everyone how rubbish the BMW is with my experience based solely on THAT BMW, why should my opinion carry any weight at all? As far as I am concerned, if one doesn't play the game then one's commentary is meaningless; nothing but noisy fluff. *shrug*
Each to their own though; I'm not going to stop people from posting (I can't, obviously) but I don't have to approve of it.
You mean you arbitrarily invalidate peoples opinions at it serves you. "Sorry you haven't driven a BMW in 6 years? Well you can't have an opinion on this version; not on it's design, technical specification, performance, environmental considerations, labour, materials and construction, marketing, competition, sound, price or name. How can your opinion matter? Your commentary is meaningless!!'
Ridiculous still is that you use an analogy of not having driven a car since new versions come out (typically over the course of years) with not having played in a month - when the last 'new content' patch was in June. As if the game could have significantly - dramatically - changed over a few months. A very poor analogy.
You say 'each to their own' while also saying 'your opinion does not matter'. An interesting perspective. Each to their own is an idiom that essentially means "I don't agree with your opinion - but understand that people have different opinions". Following it up with "but your opinion doesn't matter" is bordering contradictory. The idea behind 'each to their own' is that their opinion does matter - you understand it matters by understanding that people are different. By understanding people are different you accept that for your opinion to matter, theirs has to matter.
Essentially what you are trying to achieve is excluding people - making them feel unwelcome - because they do not share your opinion. That's not the same as not approving. I also disagreed with him, but I didn't try to insinuate that he wasn't welcome here because I disagreed or because he hasn't played Elite recently, a lot or at all.
So no - you don't have to approve. But you don't need to be rude either.
A mechanic like that would also likely be ripe for exploitation.
I knew someone was going to mention that; didn't bother to include it though.
In order for that to work, the server would have to have a timeout notification from the other client. There needs to be two sources of truth.
So: You and I, for arguments sake. I don't disconnect, but you block my connection. What happens? You tell the server that you blew me up; meanwhile, the server has not received a timeout notification from my client; so it sends an "alive" request to find out if I'm still there, if I am then your notification is dismissed and flagged as suspicious.
Granted this is a drastic over-simplification, but in my experience this type of development is doable.
This certainly takes care of the most obvious case, but there are still some interesting ways one could exploit a mechanic like this. Let's assume that FDev are entirely competent and in effecting this change they eliminate all exploits of this mechanic other than those that are strictly illegal (in the real sense of the word). What is the outcome?
Most of the people complaining about combat logging would switch to complaining about combat hyperspacing.
Most people combat logging would learn how to escape within the confines of the rules, and their frequency of ship loss would not increase.
People with unreliable hardware or connections would leave open.
Is this a positive outcome? From a rules-oriented perspective it's positive. From a functional-oriented perspective nothing changes.
Lol, pony up and have servers to cure something that games like WOW, that even at their most popular of 12 million subscribers, with huge server farms, couldn't stop, I think your living in a dream world.
The only way I see to at least keep hacking down to a minimum is have in game moderators who have the power to investigate reported players and deal out swift justice, with a fair player appeal system. But even WOW decided to get rid of their in game moderators pretty much for whatever reasons they felt were important.
As for this game going the way of DayZ as the OP said and no one playing it anymore, just OMG,OMG DRAMA,DRAMA,DRAMA comes to mind here.
Personally I believe people will play ED despite these sort of game problems, as it is a game without a player having to become a Godlike creature in a story backed game. You make your own story and can pick it up and put it down easily, do other stuff, return and go off in many different directions with gradually expanding directions as the game is upgraded. Even if you come across these silly childish hackers it is so very easy to go elsewhere, or into different types of play to avoid them if they are really causing you problems. Seems a bit pointless to me in a galaxy this size, and even in the huge bubble of inhabited space to stay near an area that hackers and cheats like this are upsetting you when there are so many other places you can go play in.
That's way too easy to abuse, way too easy. You see, the moment the above would come to be, someone'd introduce an app which disables pnp to their target, effectively "losing connection" to them, which'd leave the opponent's ship dead in their space... So, follow that thought - what's the result? Lots of people in rebuy screen, without ever actually having logged off.
This is pretty much my sentiment.
A desync like that is something that the server would recognize and handle, I doubt destruction on one client, and not so on the client who actually is destroyed would make people suddenly just 'be' dead, and last I checked though I am not sure, it is a masked p2p system that is used, meaning you do not actually see the ip of the players you are connected to?
Dang I just noticed that when I hover over the little green squares under my name where I am said to be Dangerous, on the forums that is, that the hidden message has changed to me being a jewel in the rough. Not sure if that's insulting or complimentary.
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Directly reading network packets with 3rd party app can find the IPs without fuzz.
Fuss. Fuzz is slang for the police. Although... yeah, finding the IP without the police works as well
I feel the same way OP , but let's not forget about the bad instancing.
But I came to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if you have something bad to say about this game in this place. People here are so blind because of their fanboism that they will say anything to defend their precious game.
If this game is so fun, then why do you people spend so much time on the forums? This alone should say a lot.
Waiting for a moderator to censor me, because nothing beats walls of text which resemble a FOX News debate.
But I came to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if you have something bad to say about this game in this place. People here are so blind because of their fanboism that they will say anything to defend their precious game.
If this game is so fun, then why do you people spend so much time on the forums? This alone should say a lot.
Waiting for a moderator to censor me, because nothing beats walls of text which resemble a FOX News debate.
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This is very true, however also something anti cheat systems can detect.
That said it seems more then a little extreme to go to such lengths simply to either avoid dying or kill people and the risk of being caught far far too great given people will report them.
Answer is obvious. At work or at home but kids not settled down for the night.
And forum wars are fun!
There will always be people who spoil the game in open play. No batter what you do, there is a type of person who will go to any means available in order to grief or troll other players. Many of us accept this fact and opt for solo play. We are then free to do as we please free from these people. Moreover we are free to play as we see fit without having to worry that you may come across as a griefer to another player (speeding around docks, going AFK on a medium pad at an outpost, combat logging etc.)
Nobody cares if I do this in solo, however there is constant pressure from open players to change the game every time the griefers use an aspect of it to spoil their experience.
If you are enjoying playing the game on open play with the risk of ganking and have some code of honour where you never cheat, exploit, pick on those weaker than you or combat log when you have no chance of winning then good for you. If you expect everyone else to respect and abide by them when you are around then you are delusional verging on narcissistic.
You demand a one minute combat log timer, so if your power/internet goes down or the game crashes then you are screwed. All so that your righteous sense of honour is satisfied and nobody is allowed to quit when they are losing. Non-consentual PVP boils down to a choice between being the dog or the lamppost.
Nobody cares if I do this in solo, however there is constant pressure from open players to change the game every time the griefers use an aspect of it to spoil their experience.
If you are enjoying playing the game on open play with the risk of ganking and have some code of honour where you never cheat, exploit, pick on those weaker than you or combat log when you have no chance of winning then good for you. If you expect everyone else to respect and abide by them when you are around then you are delusional verging on narcissistic.
You demand a one minute combat log timer, so if your power/internet goes down or the game crashes then you are screwed. All so that your righteous sense of honour is satisfied and nobody is allowed to quit when they are losing. Non-consentual PVP boils down to a choice between being the dog or the lamppost.
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