The Star Citizen Thread v 3.0

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I know a couple of people who got refunds. They asked nicely and got it.

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In an interview with Polygon this week, Cloud Imperium founder Chris Roberts said that refunds are being given out. "We don't publicize it, but when people reach out to us and talk to us in a rational manner, in most cases we've refunded them," he said. "We don't want people to be part of the project if they're not happy."

He stressed that the company is under no legal obligation to offer refunds. "We don't have to do that. The terms of the agreement mean we don't. We're developing [the game], so we can't be in a position where we automatically have to refund people's money. That's how we pay salaries. If we can't spend the money we get we can't make the game. We don't want people to get the impression that it is automatic because it is completely discretionary on our part."

A spokesperson for Cloud Imperium said that a total of 1,269 refunds have so far been given out, with 93 refunds since the beginning of July. Roberts declined to say what percentage of refund applications are granted.

"If there are cases where people are really upset, or facing personal hardships, on a case by case basis we take a look and we refund," he said. "We don't want to keep people around. We don't want to fight with them."

Source: http://www.polygon.com/2015/8/20/91...claiming-refunds-are-getting-their-money-back

Source: https://www.vg247.com/2015/08/21/ro...umbers-very-very-low-definitely-the-minority/
 
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1) It's not 10 hours of cutscenes, it's 10 hours of the final edits from the original capture of voice/movement. If you use your brain power for a bit, seeing the Idris ship demo shown, you see that not only YOU but the NPCs surrounding you, even the ones who are just on the area you are on that you can optionally interact with, have their own voiced lines & captured movements, and it's not on a cut scene at all, you could walk around trough it. I would be impressed if we see around 3 hours of actual cutscenes (About the same as Mass Effect 3), but it may be less because of the way you're actually there as the player as the NPCs talk, etc... it doesn't need to throw a cut-scene over you.

The Idris ship demo was nothing more then one very long "cutscene", it was scripted sequence that does not a game make. That was poorly done, badly voiced, and sadly also boring.

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Meanwhile their policy is to not give refunds, and many people have not gotten them.
 
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Since the mods do not have a problem with your personal attacks I might as well respond.

The Idris ship demo was nothing more then one very long "cutscene", it was scripted sequence that does not a game make. That was poorly done, badly voiced, and sadly also boring.

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Meanwhile their policy is to not give refunds, and many people have not gotten them.

Which many people? Can you show some Customer Service replies? Rejections of refunds? Again they don't have to they just do it because they are nice like that.
 
Many people do not get refunds? Can you please show me proof to backup that claim?

CIG does refund you, if you are a KS backer and if you backed during the crowdfund up to the end of 2014, the biggest valid reasons for it are clear: Failure to deliver by 2014 or not agreeing with the scope increase. Side of that, if i backed the game this year, and decided i want a refund, they have the right to not to give it if you don't justify why, i mean that is clear as obvious, this is not a "I demand a refund at any time i want for any reason i want just because i feel like it.", sorry, this is not how it works, you have the refunds during 14 days after got the package, after that... it's up to them and their TOS.

"Squadron 42 will feature celebrity voice-acting including at least one favorite from Wing Commander and 50 total missions." << 5 Million Stretch Goal.
"Professional motion capture for the Squadron 42 cutscenes." << 5.5 Million Stretch Goal.

What you are complaining is about some of the first stretch goals of the game, when the Crowdfund started after KS.

Like I said CIG does not give refunds.

Oh I see, so you are just going to repeat the some thing I have already addressed multiple times. Please respond with an actual argument, instead of linking a statement that I have already addressed. Heck all you did was link a quote that no one is disputing. Not sure why you think that's an argument.

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Which many people? Can you show some Customer Service replies? Rejections of refunds? Again they don't have to they just do it because they are nice like that.
And I know people that asked nice and didn't. yay we are even.

Can you post links to people getting refunds? Customer service replies? No its not because they are nice, they know their TOS is , its because they had to change it just in order to make sure they don't have to give refunds.
 
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Like I said CIG does not give refunds.

Oh I see, so you are just going to repeat the some thing I have already addressed multiple times. Please respond with an actual argument, instead of linking a statement that I have already addressed. Heck all you did was link a quote that no one is disputing. Not sure why you think that's an argument.

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Can you post links to people getting refunds? Customer service replies?
I'm not responding, i'm asking, for proof to backup your claim, that you ignored. Also my quote is from that, those were Stretch Goals, they were now delivered, it's as simple as that, there's no point on going on a complex story here when it's actually simple.
You can also read how is their refund policy in terms of failing their ETA delivery date, that is 12 Months (from 2014) for old backers, and 18 (from 2014) for who backed this year (so mid-2016) for no-questions-asked, refunds.

In any way even on twitter i saw people who posted their emails with the customer service about receiving their refunds (mostly on mentions to Derek Smart).
 
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I'm not responding, i'm asking, for proof to backup your claim, that you ignored. Also my quote is from that, those were Stretch Goals, they were now delivered, it's as simple as that, there's no point on going on a complex story here when it's actually simple.
Yeah, like your argument is any better.

In any way even on twitter i saw people who posted their emails with the customer service about receiving their refunds (mostly on mentions to Derek Smart).

I see so you had nothing to say and didn't have an argument, ok. As I had already addressed those stretch goals, and my argument discussed those stretch goals, I am not sure what you thought you were accomplishing by posting them again. You do understand that I never said CIG had given out zero refunds right? Just that their policy is to not give refunds and that people that have asked for refunds did not get them. Until CIG's official policy changes to one that they state they give refunds, it stand that you should not expect to get a refund from them. All you have done is prove that CIG's policy is to not give refunds.
 
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I see so you had nothing to say and didn't have an argument, ok. As I had already addressed those stretch goals, and my argument discussed those stretch goals, I am not sure what you thought you were accomplishing by posting them again.
So please don't go onto attacks about them using money for delivery those same goals, the end result is what matters.
About some of those refunds, a public one can be found here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQo6GB8VEAAvIMh.png:large Sent email / got reply back / replied their question / got refund. It's not that hard.
 
So please don't go onto attacks about them using money for delivery those same goals, the end result is what matters.
About some of those refunds, a public one can be found here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQo6GB8VEAAvIMh.png:large Sent email / got reply back / replied their question / got refund. It's not that hard.

See, you are trying to twist why I said. Instead of addressing what was said, you just try to change it. Kind of like how you had to resort to a personal attack.

Ya that does not show that person got a refund. You understand that right? Its right there in the image you posted. Perhaps you posted the wrong image?


Anyway, for a sec I forgot who I was responding to and their history, I think I am done trying to have a discussion with two posters that have to resorting to personal attacks.
 
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See, you are trying to twist why I said. Instead of addressing what was said, you just try to change it. Kind of like how you had to resort to a personal attack.

Ya that does not show that person got a refund. You understand that right? Its right there in the image you posted. Perhaps you posted the wrong image?


Anyway, for a sec I forgot who I was responding to and their history, I think I am done trying to have a discussion with two posters that have to resorting to personal attacks.
How odd, because i feel the same way about your recent replies, in a way i just got confused about "i already said what i said, no more discussion to it" kind of post, but okay. I posted that way because you were ignoring by complete what did the "10hour cut-scenes" actually meant.
The person on the question got its refund, it was confirmed by the same some time later.
 

jcrg99

Banned
There are a lot of reasons to call SC a scam, even though they are making a game. CR and CIG have lied to their backers over and over again in order to make money. Many people would consider that scamming.

It's the law. Consumer fraud. I don't know in what planet this people live.

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Here is an interview with Erin Roberts talking about the noise before Citizencon.
I like Erin. In a matter of fact I like most of the SC development team. They are not guilty because Roberts/Sandi ego made in their marketing strategy and ruined the project with that. In fact, as a pro talking to another pro, I interacted with many of them without any of them taking any personally... because that's what pros do... but then, I found gaps in the job of Sandi/Ben/Chris... the thrill of battle, where lies all the problems of the company, because they don't know what is to be professional, are ego driven and anything but genius and/or competent, and arrogant enough, with celebrity complex enough to never admit mistakes or having to learn, and when they pretend that they will do, its just speech. Next day, they will come back doing the same again and again.
 
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jcrg99

Banned
CIG does not give refunds, that is their official word, until they change it and start to actively process peoples refund requests it stands that CIG does not give refunds.

Actually CIG are not delivering on its promises with SQ42, were is the game? There is no game, the promise was a game, not cutscenes. CIG are creating 10 hours of cutscenes, they did 60 days of motion capture with paid actors. None of that was asked for by the backers, the backers gave CIG most of the money to make the PU, instead it went into CR's movie project.

Nope, CIG and CR have actively lied to its backers in order to get them to spend money. Like I said many people would say there were scamming people.

In fact they exchanged the game as promised, an actual in-game feature, in the name of "cinematics" or story approach, that according with them, made necessary to cut out the coop feature.
But I think that, considering how they raised the scope of the campaign, including the assets, etc., this was just an excuse for the fact that if they had to build the ability to make you jump in/out during missions of the SP campaign of some friend/foe, considering the timing, SQ42 would come out only by 2020.
That's why I think they cut out and just came with a "workaround" stating that you will have the ability to play the missions, "in the future", in a sim pod style probably, in multiplayer, which is not really what was advertised, has nothing to do with that.
And here, you already start to notice the cost of this "expanded scope", screwing the original pitch. Are we really getting a "better" game?

I mean. I would consider the coop feature even if that was in a shorter campaign with less detailed assets, for example, much better game.
 
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jcrg99

Banned
When you back a project. You give them your money. They can do whatever they want with if they are actually delivering your product. In this case Star Citizen is actually delivering a bigger and better product. Yes later.
This is questionable. This is depends of your taste. The excuse that they are delivering a "better" product have not too much weigh. It depends of the consumer. That is why its important to hold yourself in what you promised in the original campaign. Deliver that, and if you want, grown beyond that later, after delivered into your promises. That's why FTC says that "its your doom" doing crowdfunding in the CIG approach.

Sadly you still believe that the singleplayer will feature 10 hours of cutscenes. I gotta tell you man you are so wrong. Yes there will be big cutcenes but not all of them will be rendered and those who are will be rendered live in Cryengine through your PC. Actually a majority of will be in character and you will be totally immersed in the situation. You as the player actually get to interact with your crew during the mo-capped scenes. These scenes are live gameplay. The mocap data is played in the game as you are playing your character moving around and talking to people.

I agree. Squadron 42 is actually the only thing that they have chances to deliver and "live to the hype". But it will depend of people buying more ships that they are buying today. And the promised sequences, have good chances to become vaporware.

All this talking about not delivering a game of 6 million dollars but delivering a game of 90 is non-sense, since in fact, the additional funding was always justified, ad nauseum, that would be money to guarantee the pos-release development and the development of feauters that would not come in the day one... so, this is just a whole new set of bullsh... cof cof... excuses that the fans and CIG have created recently and a big risk, since now, what was a certainty, depends of future income, and a lot of more future income, to keep updating the things in the "high-level" that they are going now.

Could some people just stop and think for a second, reasonably, that CIG only makes this money from ship sales, expensive ship sales, and that it was promised to stop on release? IF they are spending all the money now, to what was supposed to be a money to sustain the game years later after release (and that was a freaking STATEMENT of Chris Roberts), what is the point of "increasing graphics", "incresaing the number of moving parts", "increasing the detail of the face of the character", to have this suppposed 90 million dollars game on day one, when all this is jeopardizing the whole future of the game, that was freaking guaranteed earlier and was the whole point/objective why most of these whales pledge as themselves continuously stated in the forums and CIG backed up such statements many times???

See? These people does not make sense at all. They are like, puppets of the CR current wishes, not mattering the past, or the future. It's all about doing whatever he wants, regardless if it really represents a better game or not. If CR says that its a better game, it is. This is the kind fo thing that make everyone to look to these people and claim that they are in a cult. Because what they do, does not make any sense. They are not even thinking in what they are doing. Just been milked.

Here's the thing. IF CR came and wrote a letter that SC will have less graphical fidelity to benefit the gameplay from now on, seriously, ALL these annoying fans would suddently make a wipe in all that they said in the present/past and would claim:

"oh, make sense you know, because its reality, you know, that is just how AAA games do.. did'nt you see Fallout 4? Why should you want a better graphical game, when that could jeopardize the future of the game? Much better having more cool gameplay. You can't make the things coming always slowly while competitors advance. And they have to save the money for future development, as they promised. Why you are asking that they do not accomplish their promises? That's what the community paid for, for the future of the development. Here's the link where CR stated just that. Community did not paid to get a 90 million dollars game in the day one. MMO is important to have retention and quick updates, meaningful updates, so, its the right decision. You are just uninformed. You don't know anything about dev. Because if you did, you would know that you have to balance graphical fidelity vs. gameplay. I always knew that it would be necessary."...
seriously...
that's what they would start to say and repeat, probably using the same words that Roberts described in his letter too. I have absolutely no doubt of that.
 
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An excellent technical but easy to understand explanation of flight model problem with SC ships, from user DEEDEE-101: https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5749877/#Comment_5749877

These are the kinds of people who invest their time and effort on correcting CIG's mistakes and incompetence.

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

Oh and I should note that if you don't claim to be 100% accurate, you can just get away with set yaw/roll/pitch forces instead of trying to simulate individual thrusters, and just animate the thrusters to roughly correspond with what the ship is doing. You know, what Elite is doing. It's cheating, but so is Star Citizen's 90-starsystem galaxy.
If you want realistic physics you won't beat Kerbal or Orbiter anyway.


@1500: CIG is issueing refunds. I don't personally know anyone who was denied a refund, though I wouldn't discount that possibility.
 
It is not a scam, i think the proper autorities going over this would take you haters even not serious.
That would be if the majority would file for scam. If it only view hate crusaders. Then it is no scam.
The majority is still in for the ride.
More haters here then on any other game related forum.

You got haters and the fans and a whole lot mote people in the middle.
 
Yeah there's obsession from BOTH sides.


On the topic of refunds: all but two (me and another guy) of the people from our gaming group (EvE + others) have got refunds.
So they are issuing them.
Most people said they'll wait to see how the game is when it's released and then buy it if they like it.
 
I am getting a bit tired&annoyed with this new propaganda 1 million backers stand by CIG&CR....First of all we all know that that number is not accurate(free accounts,multiple accounts..etc) and second how many of this backers don't agree with all what is been done so far by CIG&CR?I mean I am the backer and my 4 friends that I drag into the SC are backers as well and all of us are very concern about the project and none of us believe anything any more that comes out from the CR mouth?Who gives that man a right to manipulate with the backers voices and talk in the name of all of us???Even if I or someone else backed his project that does not automatically means that he can use me or others in his legal-fights with Escapist or DS!If I backed SC that does not means that I am backing CR and his wife Sandi in their possible illegal activities so pls. all of you that keep up posting this 1 mil. Backers stands by CR&CIG no matter what they do,next time think twice what exactly are you posting...
 
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