Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

[Jockey79]

Heh - thought it had finally expired - but no.

I was saying to Mouse in Skype the other day, on the 29th day before it would be classed as "necro posting" I was going to nudge the thread, just to be cruel

I don't think it will ever get that far

lol

 

[Roybe]

It wasn't you mate.... spider117 set this up right from the start.

I hadn't had my morning cuppa and was so confused! Still laughing at it!

 

[Jockey79]

Might as well get this in early on;

THE MIGHTY: "WALL OF INFORMATION"
(As featured in all good signature files - coming to a forum near you, all rights reserved, for educational purposes only)

From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
*Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*

Some Dev comments from the Kickstarter;



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...omment-1681441
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...omment-1705397
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...omment-1705551

The part about it being as much a MMO as CoD is already in your Wall of Text, the second KS post. His exact words were "I don't see this as an MMO in the traditional sense, unless you think of Call of Duty as an MMO."

About he not wanting to call it a MMO early on, well, besides that very post hinting at it, and the Kickstart page not using that term even once, I remember hearing it in old video interviews from the KS era. The "I don't see it as an MMO in the traditional sense" line came out quite a few times before fans managed to finally convince DB that Elite Dangerous, as pitched, would qualify as an actual MMO.

There are other interesting things to find in those old interviews. For example, just from the Gary Whitta interview with David Braben and Chris Roberts, you have:
(Part 1) (Part 2) (Part 3) (Part 4)

As reference for the following quote, here is Chris Roberts speaking about the Star Citizen equivalent of this thread (part 3, 5:30):
"And the key is kind of what David alluded to, which I think it's a debate that David has with his community and it's a debate I have with my community because there is definitely this whole sort of PvP and PvE sort of factions that go on and they're all pretty rabid. And so I think, and I think David also believes that you can sort of create a game that can cater to both sets of players and it will be okay. But it certainly is, that is, I would say if I were going to give you a touchpaper to set up a fight with your community that's the one to do it."

The immediate follow up by DB about PvE groups (part 3, 6:01):
"Well, the discussions have come up already. We have this concept of groups where you can join a group which doesn't allow or does allow it on the user choice."

Or this about the kind of game DB would want to play (part 3, 7:09):
"You know, so what I would I want from a game? I want to be able to play a great game without being griefed by teenagers, but having said that I do want there to be a feeling of risk out there."

Also this about what player interaction in ED was supposed to be about (part 3, 2:06):
"And so, I don’t mean necessarily every ship should be a player because then you get into a frame of mind that you can’t kill anything without really upsetting someone. I mean with Elite: Dangerous it’s still…a lot of the ships you encounter won’t be real players but we will call out, of the ships that you meet, who is a real player. We have a way of distinguishing them within the game. They’re actually part of this group of pilots that you’re part of and it will call out, above them say. Essentially what it means is “this is a real player,” but in the game fabric: “so this is a group who a member of the same organization as you.” We…you know, in other words we, we don’t want this game to be all about player vs. player kills, but the point is it encourages a lot of cooperation. And, it will be possible to do player vs. player kills if that’s what people want to do. "

From the forum archives;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

All Players Group– Players in this group will be matched with each other as much as possible to ensure as many human players can meet and play together
Private Group – Players in this group will only be matched with other players in the same private group
Solo Group – Players in this group won’t be matched with anyone else ever (effectively a private group with no one else invited)
(All by a Lead Designer)

Also DB on Multiplayer and Grouping and Single (01:00 - 02:01) Plus how the Galaxy will evolve over time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5JY...kuz6s&index=18
"DB explicitly said that solo players would be able to do community goals, though back then they weren't called that. Dev Diary Video #2, at the 4:10 mark."

DB on "Griefing" and "Griefers"
(Listen out for the part where FD can move them in to a private group of just each other)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb5hqjxmf4M

Rededit Topic on "unusual event for players to come against players" (With Twitch Video)
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangero...ayers_to_come/

Direct Twitch Link; (Note DB use "Occasonial" and "unusual" regarding players interacting)
http://www.twitch.tv/egx/b/571962295?t=69m00s

Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)

Wikipedia;
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

Oxford English Dictionary (Online);
An online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously .

The Steam Store page;

Please note, "Single Player" and "Multiplayer" with "Co-op".
So not just an "MMO"


Dev comments;

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes

Originally Posted by Numi
Will at any time solo and private group play be separated into a different universe/database from open play? It's kind of cheap that you can be safe from many things in solo, like player blockades and so on, and still affect the same universe.

No.

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes

Originally Posted by Robert Maynard
Thanks for that clarity Michael.

Are you in a position to confirm that group switching between the three game modes will remain as a feature of the game?

We're not planning on changing that.

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes

Originally Posted by mosh_er
Hi Micheal

I know you said that solo/group and open will always use the same universe, can you also say that there will be no specific perks in playing in one mode over another? i.e bigger profit from trading in open or bigger bounties?

None are planned at the moment.

Michael

Originally Posted by David Braben AMA Thread, post 319

Originally Posted by Alexander the Grape
In the newsletter, it was mentioned that an intersection between a trading power and a military power will result in piracy missions.

Will this make NPC piracy more profitable or will we continue to need to focus on players?

It can be more profitable, and it will apply to both players and NPCs.

Originally Posted by David Braben AMA Thread, post #367

Originally Posted by Adept
For fun

That said, it could be worth thinking about reducing the impact that solo & group players have on the political simulation.

Unlike community goals, Powerplay is a swinging balance - ie solo players are also balancing solo players.

Originally Posted by David Braben

Originally Posted by FuzzySpider
The mechanics of powerplay, particularly the interface between player and power being an almost direct copy of the community goal model, gives the entire experience an MMO-guild type feel to the gameplay.


Is this MMO-style a new direction for Elite: Dangerous? Or will you be still focussing on the single player immersive experience, even if that single player is playing in a universe filled with other players?


Thank's very much to you and the FDev team for all of your efforts. One or two subjective niggles of mine aside the game is the one I've been waiting for for years and I'm totally enamoured with it.

We are supporting multiplayer and the solo experience. Community Goals are carrying on too.

E3 2015 Interview (17th June 2015);

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/0...-david-braben/


The overall thread topic (+ How XB1 fits);

On that last point, Producer Ben Dowie reiterated that Xbox One and PC players won’t be playing head-to-head—although they’ll be playing in the same simulated universe, they’ll never encounter each other in space, likely because Microsoft’s Xbox patch cycle adds complexity to Frontier’s game update procedure. This means that PC players and Xbox players will often wind up on different clients, which means no head-to-head play. To that end, anticipated PC-centric features will likely land on PC first.

And regarding the game design;

I pointed out that there’s frequent contention online about the “right” way to play, be it casual or hard-core, and Braben agreed. “But there shouldn’t be a ‘right’ way,” he said. “You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play. And people have come up with lots of suggestions, some of them very constructive and sensible, and we do listen, and people hopefully have seen that we’ve changed things and adjusted things, but not in a way—we hope!—to upset people. We’re doing it to make the game better!”

To highlight something from that above quote;

“You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play."

Here is a quote from Zac Antonaci for the "game is dying" pro-claimers.
Dated 10th July 2015;

Originally Posted by Zac Antonaci

Originally Posted by fred
They need to be.


Look at the current posts on the subreddit and the forum. Your core player base is simply stopping playing. You might be selling copies but if your core community is splitting or stopping playing then you have a problem.

Hey Fred,


I wanted to reply to this honestly if I may.


I'm not going to be talking about active player numbers explicitally but I can tell you without question that the game has a very healthy and thriving community who enjoys hours upon hours of Elite. You really don't need to worry on that point.


<snip>


Zac

Originally Posted by Zac Antonaci

According to some members of the community, Solo players should have a limited or no effect on Powerplay - or, alternatively, playing in Open should offer Powerplay bonuses. Is this something you are considering?

No. For us Solo, Groups and Open are all valid and equal ways to play the game.

And a nice, clear, concise comment from Michael Brookes regarding the modes;

Originally Posted by Michael Brookes
From the initial inception of the game we have considered all play modes are equally valid choices. While we are aware that some players disagree, this hasn't changed for us.

Michael

Dev Update 6th August 2015 (https://community.elitedangerous.com/node/248);

What we are doing is new in many ways, both technically and in terms of how we are realizing our long term ambitions for Elite Dangerous. As we evolve the game we are trying to give the best value we can to both existing and new players, for the long term benefit of everyone. That’s why we’ve worked hard to keep backwards compatibility for the Elite Dangerous: Horizons season, and are continuing to release updates for ‘season one’ players. Everyone will continue to fly in the same galaxy, and be impacted by, participate in and help to drive the same events.

Reddit AMA from X-Box One launch, in relation to the Back Ground Simulation and Modes;
https://np.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/3nlmdg/its_frontier_developments_developers_of_elite/

^^ So PC/Mac and X-Box One impact the same live simulation, but cannot actually play together or see each other.

^^ X-Box One also has "Solo Mode" and is recommended by FD Devs for when you do not want to play with other people.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Oh, this Thread has appeared again, reminds me of something!

A bit more then a week ago I started to go testing open, you hear many things about open and a lot of them contradict each other. First I checked the "Open is a wasteland" and "Its full of griefers!" stuff, spend a lot of time in the system around Eravate and Lave and saw plenty of people all the Time.
Things is I'm not sure how important the Timezone is you play in. I assume being in Europe certainly does not hurt, thats where most CMDRs are I believe. And maybe people in Europe are nicer then in the rest of the World? At least nobody attacked me.

So I did go trading next, took the same ship I use Solo in the same loadout trade around in the exact same place I last time did in Solo. Saw people here and there in one High Tech System I visited more often, but again nobody tried to attacked me.

Then the CG started yesterday, that should be a good test. All is going well so far, but I had one interdiction by the Code. Gave some cargo, back to business. So I lost 100t of Cargo when I already brought in 10'000t, not really an all that noticable hit in contribuation or income.

We will see how it goes, so far I haven't experienced any big hits on income, and when it comes to risk: I died once playing in open so far (to a NPC), had one battle where my hull got some damage (with a NPC) and one battle where the Enemy almost got down my shields (again, npc), that where the three most dangerous moments so far.


And the biggest most noticable diffrence to solo? Docking request denied.

 

[Seonid]

Personally I loved the opening line of "I'd like to start a discussion"... bless 'em.

 

[ianw]

To be honest I sort of missed it :O

ETA - there seems to be another potential merge candidate - Robert has eyes on already and posted in it - so maybe it's not quite ready....

Standby welcome team - just in case!

 

[Dave1235]

To be honest I sort of missed it :O

ETA - there seems to be another potential merge candidate - Robert has eyes on already and posted in it - so maybe it's not quite ready....

Standby welcome team - just in case!

Me too, nothing for a week then possibly a second today, reminds me of buses

 

[Jockey79]

To be honest I sort of missed it :O

ETA - there seems to be another potential merge candidate - Robert has eyes on already and posted in it - so maybe it's not quite ready....

Standby welcome team - just in case!

Me too, nothing for a week then possibly a second today, reminds me of buses

And I thought it was just me !

Next time this thread goes for a holiday - we'll have to start a new one called "Mega thread support group" - to keep us occupied until this one comes back

 

[Dave1235]

And I thought it was just me !

Next time this thread goes for a holiday - we'll have to start a new one called "Mega thread support group" - to keep us occupied until this one comes back

Good idea, this thread has helped me through many a commute.

Whats going on with potential merge 2, did they all start playing nicely?

 

[Faded Glory]

And I thought it was just me !

Next time this thread goes for a holiday - we'll have to start a new one called "Mega thread support group" - to keep us occupied until this one comes back

Ha... I've been busy with all the interdiction bugs threads, but I must admit I did want to post a tumbleweed picture here...

 

[Roybe]

I think we should try to find new candidates and paste the link somewhere with an expected arrival time to 'The Pit'.

 

[Cody]

... but I must admit I did want to post a tumbleweed picture here...

<sniggers> As did I!

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Ha... I've been busy with all the interdiction bugs threads, but I must admit I did want to post a tumbleweed picture here...

Spoiler

 

[Mouse]

Well it made it a few days. *sigh*

PP is as viable in Solo as it is in open.

 

[relayer]

<sighs> Hiding, again? Jeez!

"chortles"

 

[relayer]

I, too, was amazed. Six Days! Somehow it felt longer.

I'd wondered if I'd been shadowbanned and put on the fake Forum server...

 

[Jockey79]

.. Somehow it felt longer.

^ My face right now

 

[drholliday]

IMO PP needs a massive rework to make it actually fun. It's grinding galore and the bad side about that is that you have to do it. It has massive potential. IMO it's all wasted. And PP should only be possible in Open anyways. If that's locked the rest doesn't really matter. You can only influence the galaxy in PP. So outside of it go solo if you prefer that. I don't see why anyone should have an advantage if he plays open and it's not that you get jumped by hordes of crazy PvP players who are about to stalk you to Sagittarius A*. The risk isn't that much higher. I've been jumped by jokers who were the opposite of competent. Just because it's a player doesn't mean he's good.

Most folks are scared in open because they fly birds they cannot really afford. If you don't need to worry about the insurance it's not a big deal to lose a ship.

 

[Mouse]

IMO PP needs a massive rework to make it actually fun. It's grinding galore and the bad side about that is that you have to do it. It has massive potential. IMO it's all wasted. And PP should only be possible in Open anyways. If that's locked the rest doesn't really matter. You can only influence the galaxy in PP. So outside of it go solo if you prefer that. I don't see why anyone should have an advantage if he plays open and it's not that you get jumped by hordes of crazy PvP players who are about to stalk you to Sagittarius A*. The risk isn't that much higher. I've been jumped by jokers who were the opposite of competent. Just because it's a player doesn't mean he's good.

Most folks are scared in open because they fly birds they cannot really afford. If you don't need to worry about the insurance it's not a big deal to lose a ship.

If anything PP should be locked OUT of Open.. I mean if you have one group that seems to think they are special privileged and deserve something and no one else does it is some of the people in Open. Make PP Solo/Group only and Open will no longer have to worry about what everyone else is doing and can go back to having their type of fun.

And the comment about ships...inaccurate. People are not scared of Open but dislike the jerks who keep destroying ships with no meaning.. and if you can AFFORD a ship then you can fly it. And I have enough to rebuy my ship in insurance at least 6 times.. It is still a big deal to lose a ship. Insurance can't replace cargo, time, bounties, exploration data.

 

[Zorronov]

Most folks are scared in open because they fly birds they cannot really afford. If you don't need to worry about the insurance it's not a big deal to lose a ship.

Agreed! I haven't "upgraded" to a more expensive ride for that very reason. I can afford to lose my ship about 30 times or so before running out of credits. So who cares?