What's happened to the ring systems?! They look terrible!!

One thing that I keep thinking on when I consider this subject...

Horizons is DX11 only, no DX9 support at all, while the standard game has DX9 as well as DX11, and many of the playerbase are only using DX9 still. Many of the playerbase are also running the game on hardware that's generations behind the time, quite a few can't use DX11 at all. That's going to cause a lot of ruckus due to all the people who've already pre-ordered but won't be able to run it.

We'll have to wait and see, but I think we'll probably get better graphics options with Horizons, at least, those of us who's systems can actually do DX11. Those who don't have a system capable of that, well, they won't see anything, they won't be able to make use of Horizons at all.
 
One thing that I keep thinking on when I consider this subject...

Horizons is DX11 only, no DX9 support at all, while the standard game has DX9 as well as DX11, and many of the playerbase are only using DX9 still. Many of the playerbase are also running the game on hardware that's generations behind the time, quite a few can't use DX11 at all. That's going to cause a lot of ruckus due to all the people who've already pre-ordered but won't be able to run it.

We'll have to wait and see, but I think we'll probably get better graphics options with Horizons, at least, those of us who's systems can actually do DX11. Those who don't have a system capable of that, well, they won't see anything, they won't be able to make use of Horizons at all.

it's about the same as people who complain they can't play Xbox One games on their Xbox 360, Get with the times, DX11 has been around solid since 2009
 
One thing that I keep thinking on when I consider this subject...

Horizons is DX11 only, no DX9 support at all, while the standard game has DX9 as well as DX11, and many of the playerbase are only using DX9 still. Many of the playerbase are also running the game on hardware that's generations behind the time, quite a few can't use DX11 at all. That's going to cause a lot of ruckus due to all the people who've already pre-ordered but won't be able to run it.

We'll have to wait and see, but I think we'll probably get better graphics options with Horizons, at least, those of us who's systems can actually do DX11. Those who don't have a system capable of that, well, they won't see anything, they won't be able to make use of Horizons at all.

If you're still using DX9 limited hardware in 2015 I feel it's my responsibility to notify your friends and family that your psychiatric state may cause you to be a danger to yourself and those around you and you should be monitored carefully at all times.

Really, if you can afford an internet connection, you can afford to upgrade. Either it's your hobby or it isn't, make a decision.
 
it's about the same as people who complain they can't play Xbox One games on their Xbox 360, Get with the times, DX11 has been around solid since 2009

I'm well aware of that, but if you peruse random gaming forums you'd come away with the distinct impression that DX11 is horrible and that no one should bother with using it. LOTS of gamers are still running on hardware that doesn't support DX11, and many games still only do DX9, with some doing a LITTLE DX11 support but not enough to really make any difference. That causes many people to think DX11 isn't any good, they never actually get to see it being used properly, so therefore it must be crap right?

- - - Updated - - -

If you're still using DX9 limited hardware in 2015 I feel it's my responsibility to notify your friends and family that your psychiatric state may cause you to be a danger to yourself and those around you and you should be monitored carefully at all times.

Really, if you can afford an internet connection, you can afford to upgrade. Either it's your hobby or it isn't, make a decision.

A nice little list of the DX11 capable cards out there today...

http://solidlystated.com/hardware/list-of-directx-11-video-cards/

It's not really that big of a list compared to the number of cards on the market, so it's not surprising that many people are still using cards that don't support DX11.
 
I'm well aware of that, but if you peruse random gaming forums you'd come away with the distinct impression that DX11 is horrible and that no one should bother with using it. LOTS of gamers are still running on hardware that doesn't support DX11, and many games still only do DX9, with some doing a LITTLE DX11 support but not enough to really make any difference. That causes many people to think DX11 isn't any good, they never actually get to see it being used properly, so therefore it must be crap right?

- - - Updated - - -



A nice little list of the DX11 capable cards out there today...

http://solidlystated.com/hardware/list-of-directx-11-video-cards/

It's not really that big of a list compared to the number of cards on the market, so it's not surprising that many people are still using cards that don't support DX11.

You looked at the price of those DX9 cards that haven't been manufactured in years? Anything older than 2012 costs a premium because it isn't being manufactured anymore, you're just buying warehouse stock that retailers jack the price up on because they're counting on niche uses of legacy hardware where the purchaser has no choice but to buy specific types of hardware for specific uses. There's no reason to buy a GPU that's more than 3 years old, you're just getting price gouged for outdated hardware that can often be bought for cheaper as a rebrand under a different model number.
 
We'll have to wait and see, but I think we'll probably get better graphics options with Horizons, at least, those of us who's systems can actually do DX11. Those who don't have a system capable of that, well, they won't see anything, they won't be able to make use of Horizons at all.

The problem isn't the users with outdated hardware. They will buy new hardware as soon as the need arises. We are well aware of the gaming industry's shortcomings, and most of the hardware that is circulating has been written off years ago. Yet people have postponed upgrading their systems because the developers were not ready to make use of current tech. Which led to the well-known PC "crisis".

So rather than worry about outdated cards, we should worry about how to get better graphics into E:D. The obvious way for Frontier would be to make a new crowdfunding campaign, perform POCs, hire new talent from other software companies outside of gaming that is welll-versed with current tech. I'm just attending a conference where people talk about mapping flash into the CPU's address space, mitigating the overhead of traditional I/O stack, as well as altering algorithms in applications for accelerability in FPGAs and GPUs. E:D, by comparison, feels so ancient..(e.g. having the route planner redesigned and executed on the GPU -or at least multithreaded- would have the potential to speed things up tremendously, have a look at http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877050915006122)
 
You looked at the price of those DX9 cards that haven't been manufactured in years? Anything older than 2012 costs a premium because it isn't being manufactured anymore, you're just buying warehouse stock that retailers jack the price up on because they're counting on niche uses of legacy hardware where the purchaser has no choice but to buy specific types of hardware for specific uses. There's no reason to buy a GPU that's more than 3 years old, you're just getting price gouged for outdated hardware that can often be bought for cheaper as a rebrand under a different model number.

Preaching at the choir, I'm running a DX12 capable card and plan on upgrading as soon as nVidia releases their next gen cards next year, set of 980 Ti's for use with an Oculus Rift when the commercial version releases next year. I built my box originally in 2010, had to replace my vidcard since then and that's been it for upgrades(GTX 470 that died last year finally), grabbed a GTX 750 to tide me over until I upgrade again, which I'll put in the 'family' PC so my grandson can play Elite and SC with me(ain't putting VR on that system, too many people messing with it, be replacing those goggles weekly no doubt). Original i7 950, which I'm not seeing is really outclassed by the current i7s(they run a little faster but not enough to justify buying a new mobo and cpu for), 6g ram which I need to upgrade(going 16 probably, cheap really for DDR3 which is all my Sabertooth X58 supports), and I'll be good to go until Intel actually releases a new cpu instead of just another iteration of the current ones, especially since I don't OC my toys anymore(I'm a bad man, I kill em when I OC em, always pushing em JUST that much too far even though I know better, so..I don't let myself OC anymore, did you know you CAN actually melt them...yeah...it's kewl..and expensive...I'm a bad man).
 
One thing that I keep thinking on when I consider this subject...

Horizons is DX11 only, no DX9 support at all, while the standard game has DX9 as well as DX11, and many of the playerbase are only using DX9 still. Many of the playerbase are also running the game on hardware that's generations behind the time, quite a few can't use DX11 at all. That's going to cause a lot of ruckus due to all the people who've already pre-ordered but won't be able to run it.

We'll have to wait and see, but I think we'll probably get better graphics options with Horizons, at least, those of us who's systems can actually do DX11. Those who don't have a system capable of that, well, they won't see anything, they won't be able to make use of Horizons at all.

Upgrade, it's called evolution, please don't drag the beauty of the game down because people want to use a bamboo PC.
 
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Preaching at the choir, I'm running a DX12 capable card and plan on upgrading as soon as nVidia releases their next gen cards next year, set of 980 Ti's for use with an Oculus Rift when the commercial version releases next year. I built my box originally in 2010, had to replace my vidcard since then and that's been it for upgrades(GTX 470 that died last year finally), grabbed a GTX 750 to tide me over until I upgrade again, which I'll put in the 'family' PC so my grandson can play Elite and SC with me(ain't putting VR on that system, too many people messing with it, be replacing those goggles weekly no doubt). Original i7 950, which I'm not seeing is really outclassed by the current i7s(they run a little faster but not enough to justify buying a new mobo and cpu for), 6g ram which I need to upgrade(going 16 probably, cheap really for DDR3 which is all my Sabertooth X58 supports), and I'll be good to go until Intel actually releases a new cpu instead of just another iteration of the current ones, especially since I don't OC my toys anymore(I'm a bad man, I kill em when I OC em, always pushing em JUST that much too far even though I know better, so..I don't let myself OC anymore, did you know you CAN actually melt them...yeah...it's kewl..and expensive...I'm a bad man).

Not what I was getting at. The issue is who is using a DX9 locked card when a DX11 card costs as much as an extra large Pizza and a 2 liter of Coke with a generous tip?

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=AT-545DR3&c=CJ

Or you could Fleabay one that's several steps above that for the same price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XFX-AMD-Radeon-HD-6850-1-GB-GDDR5-/252143885575?hash=item3ab4f25d07:g:U7sAAOSwAYtWLyxE

Look at this, 3 550 ti's sitting at $45 shipped. Get a GPU for each member of the family cheaper than you can take them to a movie.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-GeForce-GTX-550-Ti-01G-P3-1557-KR-Video-Cards-1601082-/331691978231?hash=item4d3a61edf7:g:7hsAAOSw~bFWLket

There's no reason to be stuck on DX9 anymore. This shouldn't be happening to anyone.
 
The problem isn't the users with outdated hardware. They will buy new hardware as soon as the need arises. We are well aware of the gaming industry's shortcomings, and most of the hardware that is circulating has been written off years ago. Yet people have postponed upgrading their systems because the developers were not ready to make use of current tech. Which led to the well-known PC "crisis".

So rather than worry about outdated cards, we should worry about how to get better graphics into E:D. The obvious way for Frontier would be to make a new crowdfunding campaign, perform POCs, hire new talent from other software companies outside of gaming that is welll-versed with current tech. I'm just attending a conference where people talk about mapping flash into the CPU's address space, mitigating the overhead of traditional I/O stack, as well as altering algorithms in applications for accelerability in FPGAs and GPUs. E:D, by comparison, feels so ancient..(e.g. having the route planner redesigned and executed on the GPU -or at least multithreaded- would have the potential to speed things up tremendously, have a look at http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877050915006122)

Wrong on 2 counts..

First off, no, most users won't upgrade their hardware if the original game still runs on it, they'll just get a refund for Horizons and rant and rave about how stupid FD is, for examples please see every video game ever that tried to upgrade their software via expansion/addon and made older hardware useless. It's a very common issue, PGI is not upgrading MechWarrior Online to support DX12 because to do so means LOSING all DX9 support in the process(CryTek issue, not DX issue), and they would literally lose the majority of their playerbase based on their own telemetry of who uses what hardware. WoW still supports older hardware for this reason as well, as do many others, it's just good business, not so much great game design, but good for business.

Secondly, while that paper IS interesting, it's also rather pointless as the entire process only works with CUDA which means it won't ever work with anything but nVidia cards, no one else can use CUDA, it's nVidia's baby and they ain't sharing it. Can't use something like that for PC games, can't cut out that much of the market, might work for XBox games, but that would be for an XBox lifetime exclusive game only, not seeing it there either to be honest, most console game makers want to hit MS and Sony both, I'm sure we'll see Elite on the PS4 at some point(probably already contracted).
 
The game should be dx11 and 64bit only, with plans for dx12 support. Why they are still working with dx9 and 32bit no one knows, not even consoles are 32bit now. It's holding the game back for the sake of the small number of people running potatoes.
 
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Not what I was getting at. The issue is who is using a DX9 locked card when a DX11 card costs as much as an extra large Pizza and a 2 liter of Coke with a generous tip?

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=AT-545DR3&c=CJ

Or you could Fleabay one that's several steps above that for the same price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XFX-AMD-Rad...885575?hash=item3ab4f25d07:g:U7sAAOSwAYtWLyxE

Look at this, 3 550 ti's sitting at $45 shipped. Get a GPU for each member of the family cheaper than you can take them to a movie.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-GeForce-G...978231?hash=item4d3a61edf7:g:7hsAAOSw~bFWLket

There's no reason to be stuck on DX9 anymore. This shouldn't be happening to anyone.

Explain that to the vast majority of PC users who don't have the $40 budgeted to upgrade their old computer to play a video game, it's just a GAME after all, and they've got so many other things that that $40 could be used on that matter to them, like a bill, gas in the car, lunch for the week, and so on.

It's a game, remember? There's far more games out there that run just fine on DX9 then those that require DX11, so it's not exactly a requirement to upgrade when you ain't got the spare cash, which many gamers don't have.

I'm good with dropping a few hundred to a few grand on my kids or grandkids for whatever reason, help with bills, buy em a car, birthdays, christmas, just because, I don't think twice about it, never have. But for ME to upgrade my own computer? I have to force myself to put money aside for that purpose, because while I love gaming and all, its not easy for me to justify to ME why I spent that money on myself when I could have spent it on my kids or grandkids instead. I'm putting aside the money for my vidcards and Rift, but it's slow going, I keep spending what I meant to put aside on my kids and grandkids, it's a habit I don't really want to break, I like helping my kids out and I love spoiling my grandkids. Hell, my GTX 470 died last June, I didn't replace it until December, my computer sat powered off that entire time, my GTX 750 was $100, I just kept spending that money on my family, Christmas bonus paid for the card, well...I should say my daughter spent part of my bonus on my card, I just gave her the money.

So you see, there's a LOT of reasons why people are still running old hardware. Not everyone is young, single and has disposable income in the amounts required to stay up to date with computer toys, and lots of people can't be bothered to do it even if they can afford it, they got other things to spend that money on that mean more to them, like me. I USED to think of myself first, but then I had kids and that changed, I don't like not having the top toys anymore, but hey, if I can't play a video game, that's time I can spend with my kids and grandkids instead, so I'm not thinking it's such a bad thing.
 
Explain that to the vast majority of PC users who don't have the $40 budgeted to upgrade their old computer to play a video game, it's just a GAME after all, and they've got so many other things that that $40 could be used on that matter to them, like a bill, gas in the car, lunch for the week, and so on.

It's a game, remember? There's far more games out there that run just fine on DX9 then those that require DX11, so it's not exactly a requirement to upgrade when you ain't got the spare cash, which many gamers don't have.

I'm good with dropping a few hundred to a few grand on my kids or grandkids for whatever reason, help with bills, buy em a car, birthdays, christmas, just because, I don't think twice about it, never have. But for ME to upgrade my own computer? I have to force myself to put money aside for that purpose, because while I love gaming and all, its not easy for me to justify to ME why I spent that money on myself when I could have spent it on my kids or grandkids instead. I'm putting aside the money for my vidcards and Rift, but it's slow going, I keep spending what I meant to put aside on my kids and grandkids, it's a habit I don't really want to break, I like helping my kids out and I love spoiling my grandkids. Hell, my GTX 470 died last June, I didn't replace it until December, my computer sat powered off that entire time, my GTX 750 was $100, I just kept spending that money on my family, Christmas bonus paid for the card, well...I should say my daughter spent part of my bonus on my card, I just gave her the money.

So you see, there's a LOT of reasons why people are still running old hardware. Not everyone is young, single and has disposable income in the amounts required to stay up to date with computer toys, and lots of people can't be bothered to do it even if they can afford it, they got other things to spend that money on that mean more to them, like me. I USED to think of myself first, but then I had kids and that changed, I don't like not having the top toys anymore, but hey, if I can't play a video game, that's time I can spend with my kids and grandkids instead, so I'm not thinking it's such a bad thing.

Options. That is what PC gamers like. That's what allows us to have a range of different systems that can be fine tuned to run a game as optimally as possible (within reason), or to push the graphical envelope for those with outrageous gaming rigs. Problem is FD decided to do a broad smackdown graphically regardless of your settings. I have a GTX 770. Ran the old style roids at +70 fps. Did so for months after retail until the "optimization" took place. Would like to see a slider/tick box/low-ultra that would allow us to adjust that graphic according to our rigs.
 
Explain that to the vast majority of PC users who don't have the $40 budgeted to upgrade their old computer to play a video game, it's just a GAME after all, and they've got so many other things that that $40 could be used on that matter to them, like a bill, gas in the car, lunch for the week, and so on.

It's a game, remember? There's far more games out there that run just fine on DX9 then those that require DX11, so it's not exactly a requirement to upgrade when you ain't got the spare cash, which many gamers don't have.

I'm good with dropping a few hundred to a few grand on my kids or grandkids for whatever reason, help with bills, buy em a car, birthdays, christmas, just because, I don't think twice about it, never have. But for ME to upgrade my own computer? I have to force myself to put money aside for that purpose, because while I love gaming and all, its not easy for me to justify to ME why I spent that money on myself when I could have spent it on my kids or grandkids instead. I'm putting aside the money for my vidcards and Rift, but it's slow going, I keep spending what I meant to put aside on my kids and grandkids, it's a habit I don't really want to break, I like helping my kids out and I love spoiling my grandkids. Hell, my GTX 470 died last June, I didn't replace it until December, my computer sat powered off that entire time, my GTX 750 was $100, I just kept spending that money on my family, Christmas bonus paid for the card, well...I should say my daughter spent part of my bonus on my card, I just gave her the money.

So you see, there's a LOT of reasons why people are still running old hardware. Not everyone is young, single and has disposable income in the amounts required to stay up to date with computer toys, and lots of people can't be bothered to do it even if they can afford it, they got other things to spend that money on that mean more to them, like me. I USED to think of myself first, but then I had kids and that changed, I don't like not having the top toys anymore, but hey, if I can't play a video game, that's time I can spend with my kids and grandkids instead, so I'm not thinking it's such a bad thing.

And that is just fine, and A OK! they graphics should have a low settings that most bamboo computers can use, however this should not impact the high end computers. These computers should display the graphics in a photo realistically way if the Engine can handle it. Down grading it for all is not the solution.
 
My system is above the minimum but below the recommended. I have no issues with the appearance of the roids. The stutters I get there IS a problem with my limpets running into me and targets
warping in/out of my gun site. I'm on a 64 bit OS with FD running in limited 3G 32 bit mode. My Windows cache is on an SSD. My five year old DX11 capable Radion 6800 runs Warthog in DX11 smoothly and ran FD 1.3 smoothly.
1.4 and 1.4.01 stutters even with the graphics options scaled back from installer defaults.

-Pv-
 
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So i just went into a system with all the ring types even planets that have both metal and ice and yes the fog is everywhere and it looks terrible. This is not even a dx whatever version thing as it used to look much better this is a "feature" we could all do without.

I would not mind fields with varied effects hell go play x3 Reunion they had great varied effects. So its not a hardware issue. In the end more work needs to be done here to at least get us back to where we were...

EDIT : I did find a ice field in V886 Centauri 3 with no fog it looks great, i just don't like the fog effect i guess, on a side note the ice and rock/metal rings have different speeds and are so close you can fly between them ITS NOT a good idea to fly into a field spinning like this i figured it was a glitch and would not have a collision, if you just want to end it all it is a classic way to go though...
 
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Explain that to the vast majority of PC users who don't have the $40 budgeted to upgrade their old computer to play a video game, it's just a GAME after all, and they've got so many other things that that $40 could be used on that matter to them, like a bill, gas in the car, lunch for the week, and so on.

As I said: The vast majority of users are used to upgrade their PC to play current games. It has been like that since x86 computing became mainstream in the early 90ies. And it hasn't been as cheap as it is now. Since they have been holding off on upgrades for years now, they have enough cash. And they have been upgrading for other reasons, since PCs are general purpose computers.

But game companies need to make money as well. And people won't simply put down much money for outdated games. It's simply not justifyable, since there are so many good old games on steam, gog etc. That's why Frontier never made as much money from their kickstarter campaign as CIG. People complain about the Horizon price, because they feel they don't get their money's worth.

So you see, there's a LOT of reasons why people are still running old hardware.

Even on old hardware, E:D is outdated. My old desktop was a Q9550/8GB RAM/GTX 670 w. 4GB VRAM and SSD. E:D was running perfectly on it, yet the machine was from 2008 and too slow for everyday work. Got replaced by an 5960X/64 GB RAM/Tripple Titan X setup. So people first buy new hardware, then spend money on games that actually use it. Then complain about the Horizon price, because it's too expensive for old tech.

Gaming is also a rather cheap hobby, that's why so many young people are into it. If you go skiing, travelling, are into photography, drone building or whatever, chances are you will be putting down a lot more money.

First off, no, most users won't upgrade their hardware if the original game still runs on it, they'll just get a refund for Horizons and rant and rave about how stupid FD is, for examples please see every video game ever that tried to upgrade their software via expansion/addon and made older hardware useless.


You always get people like this, and they can be easily ignored, as they are not the ones that earn you much money. It's the silent ones you have to worry about, that check out a game and then say: Yeah, for this outdated engine and derivative gameplay, I'm not putting down that much money.

DX9 support is just simply not something an average gamer needs. I moved on to DX10 in 2008, as a late adopter.

Secondly, while that paper IS interesting, it's also rather pointless as the entire process only works with CUDA which means it won't ever work with anything but nVidia cards, no one else can use CUDA, it's nVidia's baby and they ain't sharing it. Can't use something like that for PC games, can't cut out that much of the market, might work for XBox games, but that would be for an XBox lifetime exclusive game only, not seeing it there either to be honest, most console game makers want to hit MS and Sony both, I'm sure we'll see Elite on the PS4 at some point(probably already contracted).


You can do similar stuff with OpenCL, which also would work on AMD. Since the current route planner is pretty much broken, there is no reason not to remake it with current tech. Even without HW acceleration, it could at least be done multi-threaded, reducing calculation times by 3/4 up to 7/8 (assuming we are talking about the usual consumer CPUs)

Consoles are an expensive niche market - you can't think people don't put down money for hardware and then go on to mention consoles, as those things cost extra in TCO calculations, from the need of extra floorspace to dependencies in display devices etc. (most people will end up with an TV set!). And they are not very relevant to general gaming since the end of the 90ies.

Again, it's all about staying current. If Frontier doesn't do much for their customers, they are not going to pay them much money. And while they buy Elite for nostalgia, and are hopefully mostly happy with it, they focus their spendings on projects that take gaming one step further, rather than endlessly recycling outdated tech. Why would someone want a Cobra engine, when they could have CryEngine that shows things much more detailed and even smoother at 4k?
 
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Well at least we know that it can be done, because it was done in ED in later versions. So its not a technical issue. The problem must be in the "optimisation" or its a bug?

I want this game to burn my GPU, I want it to show me awesome graphics, just as they do with the sound. And potato asteroid fields is not on the menu....
 
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As I said: The vast majority of users are used to upgrade their PC to play current games. It has been like that since x86 computing became mainstream in the early 90ies. And it hasn't been as cheap as it is now. Since they have been holding off on upgrades for years now, they have enough cash. And they have been upgrading for other reasons, since PCs are general purpose computers.

But game companies need to make money as well. And people won't simply put down much money for outdated games. It's simply not justifyable, since there are so many good old games on steam, gog etc. That's why Frontier never made as much money from their kickstarter campaign as CIG. People complain about the Horizon price, because they feel they don't get their money's worth.



Even on old hardware, E:D is outdated. My old desktop was a Q9550/8GB RAM/GTX 670 w. 4GB VRAM and SSD. E:D was running perfectly on it, yet the machine was from 2008 and too slow for everyday work. Got replaced by an 5960X/64 GB RAM/Tripple Titan X setup. So people first buy new hardware, then spend money on games that actually use it. Then complain about the Horizon price, because it's too expensive for old tech.

Gaming is also a rather cheap hobby, that's why so many young people are into it. If you go skiing, travelling, are into photography, drone building or whatever, chances are you will be putting down a lot more money.



You always get people like this, and they can be easily ignored, as they are not the ones that earn you much money. It's the silent ones you have to worry about, that check out a game and then say: Yeah, for this outdated engine and derivative gameplay, I'm not putting down that much money.

DX9 support is just simply not something an average gamer needs. I moved on to DX10 in 2008, as a late adopter.
[/COLOR]


You can do similar stuff with OpenCL, which also would work on AMD. Since the current route planner is pretty much broken, there is no reason not to remake it with current tech. Even without HW acceleration, it could at least be done multi-threaded, reducing calculation times by 3/4 up to 7/8 (assuming we are talking about the usual consumer CPUs)

Consoles are an expensive niche market - you can't think people don't put down money for hardware and then go on to mention consoles, as those things cost extra in TCO calculations, from the need of extra floorspace to dependencies in display devices etc. (most people will end up with an TV set!). And they are not very relevant to general gaming since the end of the 90ies.

Again, it's all about staying current. If Frontier doesn't do much for their customers, they are not going to pay them much money. And while they buy Elite for nostalgia, and are hopefully mostly happy with it, they focus their spendings on projects that take gaming one step further, rather than endlessly recycling outdated tech. Why would someone want a Cobra engine, when they could have CryEngine that shows things much more detailed and even smoother at 4k?

That's the thing, most people do NOT upgrade their PCs, that is why Blizzard only upgraded WoW to a certain point and stopped, it was literally costing them millions of customers. I have 3 friends who had played WoW since it was in beta who no longer play due to the current very low end requirements, they won't upgrade for a GAME, and everything else they do with their PCs works just fine. They'll upgrade if they have to because nothing they use works, that's it, and that happens to be the typical response from the majority of PC owners, if my Office or Word or TurboTax works, it's good enough, so what if I can't play a video game, I've got my PS/XBox to game with!

That's the other thing, consoles ARE the vast majority of the video gaming market. I have a gaming PC and a XBox, my grandson has his own XBox and my son in law has one as well, but they don't have a PC, just a laptop that my daughter uses to rip her cd's and do the budget on, an old POS laptop that has problems with Facebook games no less, but it did what they needed, run Office and burn cds, since all gaming is done via the XBoxes they have(I've finally convinced her to get a real PC by showing her Elite and explaining how I can teach my grandson MY passion for astronomy, physics and astrophysics via the game, she doesn't know it's on XBone, or she'd go that route). I have a number of friends and co-workers who all have consoles that they game on, any PC or laptops they have are purely for social stuff, Facebook and the like, or budgeting stuff or work and that's it, why would they game on them when they have a PS3/4, XBox 360/1 that they spent X hundred of dollars on? I have a few friends locally who use a PC for gaming, and those are all older systems that can barely do DX9, they play LoL or WoW or some other game along those lines, they don't NEED a top end computer, hell they don't even need a vidcard that's younger than 6 years old, IF they even need that.

The console game market is a multi-billion dollar industry, it's not a niche market by any means, it's THE largest part of the gaming market these days. CoD:AW spent more on advertising and PR than Chris Roberts has raised for Star Citizen by over twice as much, and that was JUST the PR budget for the game, it doesn't include the development budget at all. The sales of CoD:AW on PC weren't very impressive but the console sales..yeah, millions of copies sold for the consoles. There is a reason Elite Dangerous has an XBOne port and will have a PS4 port in the future, it's a much larger market than the PC market is anymore, plus it's future proof, you build for a single set of hardware and that's it, there's no changes to worry about as hardware advances. Which is also why so many people are going to consoles over PCs, spend your money once and you are set for years without any worries. I don't know where you got the idea that consoles were a niche market, the exact opposite is true, they are the majority market, have been for years now. Rather sucks if you ask me, I don't like console games much, got an XBox just so I could game with my son in law and grandson, zombies with both of them and Borderlands 1 and 2 with my grandson, I wouldn't have one otherwise. I much prefer the PC for gaming, far better control interfaces, a lot more options and better graphics and game play usually. BF2 on the PC was amazing, BF2 on the console was not, same game, but the console port required less players possible, much smaller maps and the loss of other aspects of the game, console just couldn't deal with it all like the PC could. Destiny on the other hand, not much different, but it was also designed FOR the console first and foremost, and it shows. That I play on the XBox because there's no point in getting it on my PC, it'll play and look the same, so why bother, plus there's no where near as many PC players as their are console players. Welcome to the future of video games, enjoy the PC games while we still can, consoles will be eating the market up before another decade has passed at this rate.

As to that paper, it's a really cool thing, the math is a bit beyond me, I'm physics based, but I do understand the basics behind it. I also understand, as a coder, that creating something specifically FOR CUDA, as they did, doesn't mean it will work with OpenCL, quite the opposite actually, or they would have done it in OpenCL to begin with. You can't port CUDA functions to OpenCL, doesn't work, CUDA is proprietary, nVidia owns it and they won't share it. Rather sucks but that's how it works, often times open source software is simply not capable of doing what proprietary software can, especially in conjunction with proprietary hardware, open source is left in the cold with that combination at work.

As to making the graphics in Elite better overall, sure, it's possible to do that, but the problem is, when you do that, you DO end up cutting out the low end systems, it's not something you can get around doing anymore, the way DX9 and DX11 work precludes that, and that's on MS and no one else, THEY did that. DX12 CAN be updated to and you can still retain DX9 functionality, but it's damn near impossible to do and requires a hell of a lot of work and essentially 2 different graphics engines, simply because of the way DX12 does things. Chris Roberts discussed it a bit in regards to Star Citizen, it IS being upgraded to DX12, thing is, they will dropping DX9 and only supporting DX11 and DX12 once the process is finished, for the above reason. CryTek already upgraded CryEngine 3 to DX12, they totally dropped ALL DX9 functionality from the engine when they did that, same reason, which is why other game makers using the CryEngine 3 are stuck now. If they upgrade to the DX12 support version, all DX9 support is gone, engine literally won't run for anyone with DX9, which is why PGI, the makers of MechWarrior Online, aren't upgrading to DX12, not now, not any time in the future, it would cost them well over half their playerbase which is a pretty big number of players(more than bought Elite Dangerous) to lose. They would still have enough players to make a profit and continue the game, but the PR backlash would destroy the game, so it's just not worth it. Unlike SC which isn't released yet and IS using cutting edge tech, MWO already has an established player base and has been using DX9 tech since day one, so it's a no-go to upgrade the game engine, even though they have both a 32 and 64 executable and could, technically, release a DX12 upgrade for the 64 exec only. The logistics of that are just stupidly complicated however, so that's not even a possibility. As for Elite, again, like MWO, established game, DX9 is part of that established player base, we'll find out exactly how many people get hosed when Horizon releases as it is pure DX11. Those numbers will determine if the graphics get updated as SOME of us would like or not. They lose too many players, I wouldn't be counting on better graphics for the main game, only Horizons, which may well be the ONLY expansion that is DX11 or better depending on those numbers. If they lose very few, well, no reason to NOT upgrade the graphics and finally move to DX12 with even MORE graphical goodness.

Here's to hoping that Horizons costs us very few of the player base *raises glass*
 
One possible advantage to the fog is it limits long range visibility which has the potential to keep frame rates higher for lower end systems. Since fog can also be generated by the Gcard, this is another way to keep
the CPU load down. You can think of it as a high dust/gas level in the ring though it's unlikely the real world has this kind of visibility limitation. The alternative is to make the roid shapes simpler (lower the polys) or reduce their density which I suspect more people will object to than those objecting to the smoke/dust/gas haze.

-Pv-
 
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